Impressions of Roenicke 2012

[adambr2]

Well, I can say now with Lucroy out that THAT definitely makes a big difference. Ouch.

 

I'm not sold on RR and never have been. I'll say for sure at this point that if he could turn this team around and make the playoffs this year, I'll be on board for sure.

[HiAndTight]

Well, I can say now with Lucroy out that THAT definitely makes a big difference. Ouch.

 

I'm not sold on RR and never have been. I'll say for sure at this point that if he could turn this team around and make the playoffs this year, I'll be on board for sure.

 

 

Lex Luthor would be on Superman's bandwagon if Superman could turn around this team this year!!

 

 

Seriously though, my opinion of RR is improving. He's used his BP as I believe he should. He or whoever made it, made the right call in bringing up Fiers(I don't think he's got a clue about our prospects which I find unacceptable and common among most managers) was the right call.

 

But he's had the guts to do what he can to keep us from completely falling apart. Going with Hart at 1st and Aoki in RF which I think is the lineup the rest of the year is a HUGE boost to a very bad offense thus far and could be part of a big step in the right direction.

 

 

Truth is though...there just isn't much he can do. I think we have had 7 suicides this year out of 8 attempts. Never loved the suicide, but in most of the games it's came in, it's either added a run, or it's been when we've been down by 1 and has been in BIG spots. We haven't been bunting with the #2 hitter as much, though from Morgan and RR we found that was often the result of the player trying to bunt for a base hit than the manager calling for a sac early in in the game.

 

I think he's learning from his mistakes and might be doing a better job THIS year than last year. And there is a very good chance he losses 25 more games as a result.

 

Though with that said, he strikes me as the type who could be a VERY good coach for younger guys in a rebuilding process. He hasn't shown that in a "win now," type mentality, but I think he's gotten better at handling the young guys, and there would be an entirely different thought process if we rebuilt.

 

He just seems to have a very good demeanor to deal with that and deal with young guys DESPITE what i would agree has not been a great track record under the current circumstances. That's me taking a leap of faith based on what type of guy he SEEMS to be.

 

It's depressing though...our manager has gotten better and we could end up as a 70 win team rather than a 96 win team...

[3and2Fastball]

I'm not sold on RR and never have been. I'll say for sure at this point that if he could turn this team around and make the playoffs this year, I'll be on board for sure.

 

Wow, no pressure or anything!

 

If Roenicke can take this injury riddled team to the playoffs, he deserves to just be handed the Manager of the Year award for the next 5 years

[adambr2]

Good points on RR, with the extension I imagine he is here for the next 2 years minimum for better or worse, so I may as well get used to it.

 

I think despite the record, the pressure is pretty much off his shoulders by this point, as no matter how bad this team ends up this season, it can be pretty passed off to the fans and media as too injury-plagued to compete, whether this is entirely true or not. So I think other than the very fractional chance that this team still has to make the playoffs, probably the best we can hope for out of him this year is that he continues to learn and develop to make himself a better manager in 2013 and beyond.

 

I think Melvin is under a tremendous amount of pressure right now, though. He's got some potentially franchise-altering and fanbase-altering decisions to make, and I'm sure him and Ash and Mark A. are going to be involved in some pretty intensive talks over the next 2 months regarding this.

[monty57]

I think Melvin is under a tremendous amount of pressure right now, though. He's got some potentially franchise-altering and fanbase-altering decisions to make, and I'm sure him and Ash and Mark A. are going to be involved in some pretty intensive talks over the next 2 months regarding this.

 

If spun correctly, the injuries can actually help Melvin make the moves which need to be made. It can be played up as "we had a playoff team, but with the injuries we decided we needed to go another direction." Then they can trade some players we'd otherwise lose to restock for next year. We can give playing time to some of our young players so they're "less green" next season, and we can try to make some lemonade from this lemon of a season.

 

It will be interesting to see how Roenicke shifts from playing for the playoffs to playing with younger players. One of my main gripes has been that he doesn't seem to trust young players, but maybe that's because he's been shooting for the World Series. If he really doesn't trust young players, then he's probably not going to be a good manager during any type of a "rebuild."

[dlk9s]

Narveson and Estrada can be replaced without a big drop off.

 

Even if that's the case (and we don't know that it is, really), their absences create a domino effect that hurts the team. It's pretty obvious that when Estrada had to move into the rotation that the bullpen suffered. Now without him, the best we can reasonably hope for is that his replacement in the rotation can come in and be ok. Sure, maybe Fiers/Peralta/Thornburg/Joe Schmo will be amazing, but realistically, I'm just hoping for a guy who can be a decent #5 starter for now. And the bullpen still sucks.

[thebruce44]

Yeah, I find it very hard to get upset at Roenicke as much when the team is just bad.

 

After watching fans for the last year decide RR is a good manager because the team was good, its really tempting to bash him now that they suck.

[adambr2]

I'm trying so hard to give RR the benefit of the doubt, I really am. I'm trying really hard to force myself to think that he's learning from his mistakes.

 

I get that he's in love with the sac bunt, but taking the bat out of Braun's hands twice to set up the double-play machine in Ramirez is maddening. It was only by complete fluke that it didn't bite him in the 8th.

[Glennron]

So...much...bunting.

 

What exactly is the point of bunting with Aoki with 0 outs and runners on first and second when you're up two? Best case scenario is he gets it down and they intentionally walk Braun. Ramirez then hits the definition of a double play ball immediately after. It's like RR is trying to catch up with Mattingly or something.

[rluzinski]

So...much...bunting.

 

What exactly is the point of bunting with Aoki with 0 outs and runners on first and second when you're up two? Best case scenario is he gets it down and they intentionally walk Braun. Ramirez then hits the definition of a double play ball immediately after. It's like RR is trying to catch up with Mattingly or something.

It's driving me crazy as well. Seems like he is managing scared these days. He could have the bases loaded and no out and would be happy to score 1 run.

[derflotr]

The bunting is actually a fetish. He is excited to give away outs. I don't understand it.

[Glennron]

What's ironic is that for someone who seems to absolutely hate double plays, he continues to take the bat out of Braun's hands to put Aramis in a double play situation.

[liveforoctober]

I've always been good with the bottom of the lineup manufacturing runs. If Roenicke wants to safety squeeze Maldonado with Kershaw on the mound and we can steal a run ... cool. But I agree that taking the bat out of Braun's hands is rarely (see: never) wise ... I don't like that as much.

[adambr2]

What is even more frustrating about this to me is the fact that Roenicke's sole qualification to be a #2 hitter on this team seems to be "good bunter". There is zero reason to have Hart leadoff over Aoki, Aoki is as prototypical of a leadoff man as we have. But since he can bunt, RR wants him batting 2nd for the sac bunt situation. Which in turn, as we learned twice tonight, takes the bat out of Braun's hands and sets up Ramirez for a DP situation.

 

No matter how you feel about sac bunting, think of this -- our lineup is literally designed to take the bat out of Braun's hands with runners on base. Something is wrong with that.

[DHonks]

adam, I like the idea of baserunners. over the course of the season we're going to be happy with Weeks, Ramirez, and Lucroy stepping up to the plate with extra runners on. Much as Ryan can wreak havoc with the bat, I like guaranteed base runners. I'm not sure how I get your point. Since you bash the Brewers for bunting and giving up outs, shouldn't you be bashing other teams every time they choose to walk Braun?

 

Aoki has been pretty good so far. I think what they like about him hitting second isn't just bunting (as you say) but his ability to foul off pitches, spray it to all fields, give Corey time to occasionally steal, and avoid hitting into double plays. If you reverse it and put Hart 2nd, you'd end up with Braun being walked a lot. Instead of it going "Hart hit, Aoki Sac, Braun Walk," it could go "Aoki single, Hart GIDP, Braun pitched around" or "Aoki single, Hart K w/Aoki stealing 2nd, Braun walked".

 

We could play the CF platoon batting 2nd. We could bat Lucroy 2nd. We could bat Weeks there. But we don't have many options

[brettac1]

I hate the designated bunter role that RR apparently wants his #2 hitter to fill.

[adambr2]

adam, I like the idea of baserunners. over the course of the season we're going to be happy with Weeks, Ramirez, and Lucroy stepping up to the plate with extra runners on. Much as Ryan can wreak havoc with the bat, I like guaranteed base runners. I'm not sure how I get your point. Since you bash the Brewers for bunting and giving up outs, shouldn't you be bashing other teams every time they choose to walk Braun?

 

Aoki has been pretty good so far. I think what they like about him hitting second isn't just bunting (as you say) but his ability to foul off pitches, spray it to all fields, give Corey time to occasionally steal, and avoid hitting into double plays. If you reverse it and put Hart 2nd, you'd end up with Braun being walked a lot. Instead of it going "Hart hit, Aoki Sac, Braun Walk," it could go "Aoki single, Hart GIDP, Braun pitched around" or "Aoki single, Hart K w/Aoki stealing 2nd, Braun walked".

 

We could play the CF platoon batting 2nd. We could bat Lucroy 2nd. We could bat Weeks there. But we don't have many options

 

I agree with baserunners being good, but just like with the sac bunt, there is a time and place for the IBB where it is strategically sound. Sac bunting in front of Braun was fine when you had Prince behind him, but now they get to just avoid him every time. You don't want your best hitter getting IBB'ed.

 

And I don't agree about the potential scenarios with Aoki leading off and Hart batting #2. Batting Hart leadoff based on the fear of him GIDP is pretty silly, IMO. He's not slow, for one thing. He's also the second biggest extra base hit threat on your team. Having him up with a runner on 1st is a good thing, not a bad thing.

[rluzinski]

"Truth is though...there just isn't much he can do. I think we have had 7 suicides this year out of 8 attempts."

 

As I've pointed out before, generally speaking, you almost have to have a 100% success rate with suicide squeeze attempt in order to make it a winning strategy. That's what every other manager but RR seems to appreciate. Yes, if it's late and you need one run and the batter up is bad, it makes a lot more sense. But again, other managers appreciate that the situation has to be right. RR thinks that anytime you have a runner at 3rd with less than 2 outs, it's a potential squeeze situation.

[TooLiveBrew]

Not only does bunting with your #2 hitter completely defy logic in terms of lineup construction, Aoki routinely turns in good PAs where he works a deep count & works the pitcher. He's probably as good at that as anyone on the team not named Braun, yet RR wants him to give away not only an out but also the extra fatigue he can take from a pitcher in a given PA.

 

RR manages this offense, in-game, like a little league manager might manage a bunch of kids. It's just painful to watch sometimes.

[FVBrewerFan]

I hate the designated bunter role that RR apparently wants his #2 hitter to fill.

 

Problem is, Hart has to lead-off because he's comfortable there. Seems to mee it's the Manager's job to put players in the best positions, and help MAKE them comfortable there. Aoki and Hart should be flip-flopped, but probably doesn't make that much difference at the end of the day.

[brwrsfan]

The difference to me would be that if Aoki reaches first base, they would very rarely, if ever, ask Hart to bunt in the 2 hole. He's one of our top run producers and hasn't really bunted much in his career, even in a sac situation. So it ties Ron's hands in most cases so that he can't possibly take the bat away from Ryan Braun.

[MJLiverock]

I think the "seeing a lot of pitches" gets a lot more credit than it matters. That was used as the redeeming factor for Jason Kendall's terrible bat. I'd rather a guy hits a good pitch rather than sit and watch them go by just to see more pitches, fall behind in the count and end up whiffing/grounding out on a pitcher's pitch.

 

Out of qualified batters Weeks is 7th in the NL at 4.26 pitches per PA, Hart is 15 at 4.10 Braun 24th at 4.02 and Ramirez 70th at 3.55.

 

Aoki is 4.16, Green is 4.11, Lucroy is 3.7 Gamel is 3.53, Gonzo is 3.53, Gomez is 3.34, Ransom is 4.1. Guys like Lucroy and Aoki seem to get this rap of working the count but Lucroy is actually below the band where most guys are (3.9-4.1 is pretty common). Aoki popped up on a first pitch last night but didn't get the scorn that others face because he is perceived as some great count worker.

 

Looking at the top ten Batting Averages in the NL and only 2 guys had pitches per PA above 4.0, Prado at 4.01 and Votto at 4.27. Five were below 3.5.

 

Most guys in the entire league are in a band of about 0.5 pitches per PA, there just doesn't seem to be any big outlier of guys who work a bunch more pitches than others.

[Glennron]

The difference to me would be that if Aoki reaches first base, they would very rarely, if ever, ask Hart to bunt in the 2 hole.

 

I'm not so sure about that. I can think of numerous times in the past two seasons where Hart has sac bunted, often times when he was batting 5th. Now whether that was his call or Roenicke's I don't know.

[FVBrewerFan]

I think the "seeing a lot of pitches" gets a lot more credit than it matters. That was used as the redeeming factor for Jason Kendall's terrible bat. I'd rather a guy hits a good pitch rather than sit and watch them go by just to see more pitches, fall behind in the count and end up whiffing/grounding out on a pitcher's pitch.

 

Out of qualified batters Weeks is 7th in the NL at 4.26 pitches per PA, Hart is 15 at 4.10 Braun 24th at 4.02 and Ramirez 70th at 3.55.

 

Aoki is 4.16, Green is 4.11, Lucroy is 3.7 Gamel is 3.53, Gonzo is 3.53, Gomez is 3.34, Ransom is 4.1. Guys like Lucroy and Aoki seem to get this rap of working the count but Lucroy is actually below the band where most guys are (3.9-4.1 is pretty common). Aoki popped up on a first pitch last night but didn't get the scorn that others face because he is perceived as some great count worker.

 

Looking at the top ten Batting Averages in the NL and only 2 guys had pitches per PA above 4.0, Prado at 4.01 and Votto at 4.27. Five were below 3.5.

 

Most guys in the entire league are in a band of about 0.5 pitches per PA, there just doesn't seem to be any big outlier of guys who work a bunch more pitches than others.

 

Yea, on an indivual basis I don't think it matters much. Would rather see braun crush a first pitch "get me over curve" than taking pitches just for the sake of taking them.

 

With that said, the benefit of taking pitches as a whole is that it gets you to the bullpen sooner. That can really have a huge impact on a game, and the entire series.

[brwrsfan]

The difference to me would be that if Aoki reaches first base, they would very rarely, if ever, ask Hart to bunt in the 2 hole.

 

I'm not so sure about that. I can think of numerous times in the past two seasons where Hart has sac bunted, often times when he was batting 5th. Now whether that was his call or Roenicke's I don't know.

 

You're right, he has a few times now that I think about it (though i seem to recal him doing that on his own a few times), but with this lineup, in the 2 hole, it would seem much more unlikely to occur.

 

Just looked it up, he has 15 career sac bunts in over 3000 plate appearances.