Teams interested in Parra and Loe

[RockCoCougars]

I'm not giving up on Axford just yet, but outside maybe taking a flyer on Parra, I see no need to keep any of the others moving forward. K-Rod for obvious reasons, and Loe/Veras are not worth what they will bring in arby (even though they've both been borderline brutal this season). I could actually see a little trade value with Loe and Veras, because at a quick glance, their stats do not belie how bad either of them have been (just hide Veras' 1.7+!! WHIP and focus on the strikeouts... wow is he lucky that his ERA is 'only' 4.7. )

[monty57]

Veras mentioned earlier too. K-Rod Axford as well.

 

I just don't think that there is anyone in our bullpen that could bring us anything in value... They have not performed well enough for us to think a team with a shot at the playoffs would want any of them for the stretch run.

 

I think most MLB GM's understand how erratic stats can be over 30-40 IP. Very few relievers are good year-in and year-out. Those that are end up making eight figure salaries closing games. Loe, Parra and Veras have careers to go off of which would be better indicators than just looking at what they've done this year. Loe historically has been decent against righties, Veras is coming off two pretty good seasons in 2010 and 2011, and Parra has been alright since moving to the bullpen from the starting rotation.

 

None of these guys are stars, but they have some talent. There are certainly worse options out there than these guys, and any of them could help a playoff-hopeful team that has one of these worse options in their bullpen (or has suffered some injuries).

 

The reason I wouldn't be upset to see them go is that they will all be in their final year of arby next season, and will make a decent amount of money. I think that money could be better spent by the Brewers next year.

 

Edit: To the "wouldn't bring us anything of value" part, you may be right, but we would get salary relief and I could see us getting a AAA middle reliever who could be useful in coming years playing for league minimum. A GM might rather put a "proven vet" into a playoff race than a rookie. Again, not a stud prospect, but someone who could come in and give us league-average stats for league-minimum salary.

[FVBrewerFan]

Veras mentioned earlier too. K-Rod Axford as well.

 

I just don't think that there is anyone in our bullpen that could bring us anything in value... They have not performed well enough for us to think a team with a shot at the playoffs would want any of them for the stretch run.

 

Nobody is saying you'll get Verlander or Votto in return. K-Rod and Axford have value, even guys like Loe, Parra, and Veras have value. Whther I agree with it or not, it's kind of Standard Operating Procedure for many contenders. Go get a veteran bullpen arm for the stretch run. The belief is, move a guy to a team who's in the hunt and they'll perform better. History shows that can work sometimes.

 

At this point it's all about 2013, and I want to clear out the trash and give innings to guys like Kintzler, Stetter, Sanchez, Henderson, Wooten, Burgos.

[valpocrewsader]

I love "Jesus (Saves) Sanchez." When I read it, I mentally pronounce the nickname like "sah-vez." If he sticks as a closer, it becomes one of the best nicknames of all time.

 

Intro music, solved.

 

[TURBO]

A Savatage reference? LOVE IT!

[Funketown]

[sarcasm]I didn't realize AAA teams could make trades with MLB teams.[/sarcasm]

[adambr2]

So, they still interested?

[MNBrew]

[sarcasm]If Melvin has a chance of moving Loe or Parra or even Veras (and hopefully K-Rod), he'd better move quickly before teams figure out how lousy they were again these 1st 2 games in Philly.[/sarcasm]

 

McClendon hasn't pitched this year like he did last year, not even in AAA, but he's one of a handful of guys from Nashville that really couldn't do much worse than the present cast of ineptitude -- and sooner or later they need to start getting that chance.

 

I'd say keep Axford & Hernandez (the mop-up guy), make an aggressive trade or two for BP guys who could be decently good (I keep thinking of Balfour to begin with), and bring up Nashville guys to fill out the BP roster.

 

I know there are bundles of unknowns & potential disaster in the AAA guys, too. But I'm thinking Loe/Parra/Veras/K-Rod collectively are gonna be WAY too spendy due to arby (or FA in K-Rod's case) or are just plain too unproductive to consider bringing most or all of them back, so some of the AAA guys could use these last 2 months as a head start on earning a spot next year.

 

If Greinke gets traded (I still hold out major hope that he re-signs, however unlikely that may be), it doesn't change the key issue that we still need a viable rotation next year to contend. The rotation's had its issues this year, but the bullpen and to some extent the undependable offense are by far bigger culprits in this season's demise than the rotation.

[trwi7]

make an aggressive trade or two for BP guys who could be decently good

 

You keep saying this and I don't know why. So we can win 75 games instead of 74?

[adambr2]

Yeah, I'm with Trwi on this one. Why on earth does improving the bullpen matter right now? We're not contenders this year, and the majority of the pen is going to be blown up after this season anyway. Why not work on improving the pen then? Why now, when we're just playing out the fiddle anyway?

 

You can audition a few guys in September callups if you want, but you're still not going to learn much in that short period of time.

[MNBrew]

I keep saying that because we need a good bullpen -- not just this year but also next year & beyond. While contending this year may be a pipe dream, there are still current wrongs that can be righted easily enough with the right moves.

 

If we trade/dump/whatever most of the lousy relievers -- a great blessing if it happens -- the Brewers still need QUALITY options out of the bullpen before Axford. And I think the odds are that more of that likely will need to come from proven/productive veterans than AAA guys (McClendon/Henderson/Rivas/Peralta/Rogers/Dillard/Wooten).

 

[Note: I'm not just talking pending FA's but also productive/proven relievers either pre-arby or in multi-year deals. While it isn't very likely, I'd sure love to get Hawkins (2-year deal) or Balfour (team option for '13) back. Good young relievers would seem more likely to come back to the Brewers in "seller at the deadline" deals.]

 

Waiting 'til season's end to blow up the bullpen & get quality pitchers into the 4 (5 if Greinke's dealt -- Thornburg into the rotation) spots beyond Ax & Livan stands to decimate not only the psyche of the current team but also the perception of the team & the organization across MLB -- including FAs the Brewers might want to pursue this winter.

[adambr2]

I keep saying that because we need a good bullpen -- not just this year but also next year & beyond. While contending this year may be a pipe dream, there are still current wrongs that can be righted easily enough with the right moves.

 

If we trade/dump/whatever most of the lousy relievers -- potentially a great blessing -- the Brewers still need QUALITY options out of the bullpen before Axford (inevitably eventually the closer again). And I think the odds are that more of that likely will need to come from proven/productive veterans than McClendon/Henderson/Rivas/Peralta/Rogers/Dillard types.

 

[Note: I'm not just talking pending FA's but also productive/proven relievers either pre-arby or in multi-year deals. While it isn't very likely, I'd sure love to get Hawkins (2-year deal) or Balfour (team option for '13) back. Good young relievers would seem more likely to come back to the Brewers in "seller at the deadline" deals.]

 

Waiting 'til season's end to blow up the bullpen & get quality pitchers into the 4 (5 if Greinke's dealt -- Thornburg into the rotation) spots beyond Ax & Livan stands to decimate not only the psyche of the current team but also the perception of the team & the organization across MLB -- including FAs the Brewers might want to pursue this winter.

 

I disagree. Bullpens are a crapshoot from year to year. We did the veteran reliever approach this year, went out and re-signed K-Rod in arby, traded for Veras, and it's gotten us nowhere. When Axford dominated in 2010 and 2011, he was a nobody that came out of nowhere. Relievers are mostly a roll of the dice, and the consistent ones are increasingly rare.

 

So, I'd like to see some of the young guys get a shot, it certainly couldn't be worse than this year. That's not to say that we can't get veterans into the mix too, but the last thing I would want to see is Doug overreact and go out and spend $20-$25M on the bullpen. Not that it would shock me.

[MNBrew]

Sure, BPs are an annual crapshoot. But you need a couple proven guys besides the closer. The rest may well be current AAA/AA guys such as those mentioned above, young guys, future rotation guys, or scrap heap nuggets (or lightning-in-a-bottle types).

 

Veras wasn't the next Hawkins or Saito. He was another Loe -- just another guy. I don't want any more "just another guy"s. I'm rooting for someone with a solid track record -- the next Hawkins or Saito. 1 or maybe 2 of those guys -- at least somewhat reasonably priced, not a Matt Thornton contract -- in a BP isn't an outrageous notion when your closer going forward is still under team control for another 3-4 years.

 

I think mostly we're envisioning a similar BP construction, adambr2.

 

Offering K-Rod arby was perceived by pretty much everyone at the outset as a low-risk move. . . . a long-odds possibility that still & unfortunately became their reality. I highly doubt we see that mistake repeated by Melvin or probably most any other GM.

[thumperden]

I'll take a bag of balls for nearly everyone in the bullpen. Other than Axford, whom I think is going to be fine, ship 'em all! Post season hopes are over. Let's see what we have on the farm.

[monty57]

While Greinke came through in Philly and it helped his trade value, the bullpen did just the opposite. Had K-Rod, Veras, Loe and Parra pitched well in that series, we probably could've gotten something in return. Now I'd be happy to trade them for nothing just to have someone else pay the rest of their contracts and allow for some guys to come up from AAA to get their feet wet and audition for a spot in the 2013 pen.

 

Unfortunately, unless Melvin is able to swing a trade for someone, he is going to have to go to the FA market to pick up a couple of veterans for the pen next year, and that'll eat up $8-12MM of our payroll. I'm still holding out some hope (but not much) that someone like Morgan could get flipped for a young bullpen arm, because even if we decide that next year's a rebuild year, there's no way Melvin's going into the season with Axford and the 2012 Nashville bullpen.

[SRB]

DKnobler ‏@DKnobler

Brewers have had some inquiries about Manny Parra, but they may keep him. May try him as a starter again.

[brewmann04]

If they can get a prospect they should look into it.

[PrinceEatMeat]

DKnobler ‏@DKnobler

Brewers have had some inquiries about Manny Parra, but they may keep him. May try him as a starter again.

 

This is what scares the heck out of me. That would be incredibly stupid. Just trade him if there's value coming back, or keep him as a reliever. There's absolutely no way he should ever start again.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Please get rid of Parra, I have as much confidence in him as my 5 year old learning to ride a bike without training wheels for the first time. The guy has no heart and is mentally soft. If makes anything close to sense please get rid of this guy!!!

[TooLiveBrew]

DKnobler ‏@DKnobler

Brewers have had some inquiries about Manny Parra, but they may keep him. May try him as a starter again.

Welcome, class, to Driving Up Trade Offers 101. Professor Melvin will be your instructor...

[PrinceEatMeat]

DKnobler ‏@DKnobler

Brewers have had some inquiries about Manny Parra, but they may keep him. May try him as a starter again.

Welcome, class, to Driving Up Trade Offers 101. Professor Melvin will be your instructor...

 

I have to believe this is the case, because I would really hope they know he can't start anymore.

[fondybrewfan]

I don't think Parra is or should ever be tried as a starter again. MIL has enough other available options that they shouldn't have to be that desperate

[craigharmann]

Yeah, that's a total genius move! The guy is hittable when seen once a game, why not give hitters multiple opportunities. Not to mention that Burgos, Thornburg, Rogers, Nelson and basically anyone at AA or AAA is a better starting option than Manny. No thanks.

[PrinceEatMeat]

DKnobler ‏@DKnobler

Brewers have had some inquiries about Manny Parra, but they may keep him. May try him as a starter again.

Welcome, class, to Driving Up Trade Offers 101. Professor Melvin will be your instructor...

 

I hope you're joking, because selling him as a possible starter wouldn't help drive up trade offers whatsoever. Him pitching well is about the only thing that would help, and that hasn't happened a lot recently.

[TooLiveBrew]

No. My point was Melvin could be telling teams he doesn't like the offers, and bluff that the Brewers are still high enough on Parra's upside that they're even willing to consider him as a SP again. Something like, 'Nah, that's way cheaper than what we want. We like Manny's stuff a lot, we really think he could even thrive as a SP with some mechanical changes... blah blah blah... we're not looking to give him away on the cheap.'

 

At least I sure hope he's bluffing on that... and that.