Time to get Axford out of the closer role [Latest: Axford out, K-Rod in]

[bork]

What is the saying about rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic?

 

I'm for trying K-Rod at closer, but as people are saying, the whole bullpen stinks. Last year, there were 5 guys with ERAs under 3. Now K-Rod is the only one under 4 and just barely.

[pacopete4]

Maybe instead of signing guys who have been around the block a few times and haven't had a ton of success, we try and fill from within.

 

Starters: Basically a staff that costs $12-$15 million

Gallardo

Fiers

Estrada

Peralta

Narveson or Rogers

 

Relievers: (Under $10 Million here)

Axford

Parra

Thornburg

Rogers or Naveson

Henderson

McClendon

Wooten

 

 

That way if some or all don't work out, we haven't sunk a ton of money into the pen and are flexible to possibly go out and sign a vet or make a trade for someone that can polish off the pen. Being in the situation we are this season where we have NO MONEY to even go out and get some support sets you up for having to watch all these bush leaguers go out and suck each and every night.

[pacopete4]

What is the saying about rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic?

 

I'm for trying K-Rod at closer, but as people are saying, the whole bullpen stinks. Last year, there were 5 guys with ERAs under 3. Now K-Rod is the only one under 4 and just barely.

 

Saito and Hawkins were studs in the 2nd half of the season last year. Saito hasn't even pitched this season so that woulda been a terrible sign but Hawkins would have been nice to have again. Woulda solved having Veras as a 7th inning man.

[slappzilla]

Here's what you do...

 

Demote Ax to the 8th inning. KRod takes over the closer role. Hopefully he gets some clean saves between now and the trade deadline, and you use that to add value to KRod for a trade.

 

After KRod is dealt, if Ax has calmed down in the 8th inning role, give him another shot at the closer role again. At that point it more than likely won't matter anyways.

[RockCoCougars]

It's kind of like finding that franchise QB. There are handful of teams that have em and the rest play musical chairs with the rest of the guys available. Some teams get good years out of guys and others get crappy years. In the end, all those pitchers make WAYYYY too much to blow as many games as they do.

 

Good analogy, but I'd say that they are more like kickers, except for the way to much money part. I think a big part of this role is confidence and Axford has to have zero right now. He's just very hittable this season. Even the outs last night were smoked.

 

As for a replacement, I'd go with K-Rod in the short term. Heck, call me crazy, but I may even give Parra a shot to close some games down the road.

[scuttlebutts]

How does Loe fit in? How about Loe in the 8th K-Rod in the 9th. Give AX scrap innings til he shows something.

[scuttlebutts]

It's kind of like finding that franchise QB. There are handful of teams that have em and the rest play musical chairs with the rest of the guys available. Some teams get good years out of guys and others get crappy years. In the end, all those pitchers make WAYYYY too much to blow as many games as they do.

 

Good analogy, but I'd say that they are more like kickers, except for the way to much money part. I think a big part of this role is confidence and Axford has to have zero right now. He's just very hittable this season. Even the outs last night were smoked.

 

As for a replacement, I'd go with K-Rod in the short term. Heck, call me crazy, but I may even give Parra a shot to close some games down the road.

 

I'd just CUT loose Parra!

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

If you combine the half dozen or so threads on the pen, there are posters calling for just about everyone to be DFA'd.

 

Should Ax lose the closer role? Probably...but as several have mentioned it's not like they can hide him from meaningful situations. The best thing is to hope he figures it out so we can rely on him next year. Relievers have short fuses and are often volatile. He's figured it out before, no reason he can't again. If he does, he'll be a very valuable asset. Way too early to declare him Turnbow. Maybe he's like Dan Plesac...not effective enough to close, but he had a long career as a set up man. Although Ax hasn't lost the velocity that Plesac did.

 

Should KRod close? Yes. He hasn't been much better, but he has been better. Why not showcase him a little more for a potential trade. At least he's closed before so he won't freak out. Let Axford work some lower leverage situations and hope he turns it around.

 

Is there anyone to bring up? They could bring up Henderson and will shift Thornburg into a role after this spot start, but who knows what they'll get. Worth a shot, but I wouldn't bet on a meaningful change to the pen performance.

 

Sure you could cut Parra...or Loe...or Veras...but replace them with what? Maybe DM can find some scrap heap guys, but he's more likely to find the next Daniel Ray Herrera than the next Ax man. They aren't close enough where you'd want them to trade for help. Parra is inconsistent but sadly may have been our most effective reliever so far. There just aren't a lot of options. Bullpens are a crap shoot...last year everything came up huge, including some big time unsustainable luck from guys like Hawkins. This year, bad luck and bad performances.

 

The one thing I can't stand is all the personal venting on twitter, etc. on Axford. The dude is a stand up guy and doing his best. He just isn't good right now...it's not like he's Gary Sheffield firing balls into the stands on purpose. He's trying his best, and I doubt anyone is taking it harder right now than he is.

[WV Brew]

If Ax is looking at Twitter, he's got the wrong job.

[scuttlebutts]

I think everyone gave AX a LONG chance.

[FVBrewerFan]

What is the saying about rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic?

 

I'm for trying K-Rod at closer, but as people are saying, the whole bullpen stinks. Last year, there were 5 guys with ERAs under 3. Now K-Rod is the only one under 4 and just barely.

 

Saito and Hawkins were studs in the 2nd half of the season last year. Saito hasn't even pitched this season so that woulda been a terrible sign but Hawkins would have been nice to have again. Woulda solved having Veras as a 7th inning man.

 

I have no problem not signing Saito and Hawkins. The problem is they were never replaced with similar talent.

 

Let this be a cautionary tale. Don't neglect the bullpen. This team would be in contention this year with a solid bullpen. And you don't need to spend a ton of money, just be able to identify talent. How many teams have the Brewers faced this year with several guys coming out of the pen throwing nasty stuff with great numbers? And they're all young guys making close to nothing.

 

As for Axford? Who cares? It's too late now. RR used the MLB Managers handbook and gave Ax 4 months to "work it out." It's not like Axford is Rivera or Gagne in their prime. What special right does he have to hold on to that role indefinitely? KRod should have had that job long ago. Maybe he wouldn't have done much better, but then you go to plan C. But since "old Axy" is named as the closer, he shall be the closer forever. So says RR's MLB Managers Guide.

[Oldcity]

It really won't make much difference. K-Rod has been just as bad overall this season. Only benefit to that is if he has a couple successful saves, the Brewers might be able to trade him for something. The Brewers will be better off next season if Axford ends this year with success as the closer. They aren't going anywhere this year anyway, so they might as well do what they can to try to straighten him out before next season.

[bjkrautk]

I don't see the point of giving Ax the vote of no confidence now, only so he can be put back into the closer role 2 weeks from now (when K-Rod gets the heave-ho).

 

Just to put it out there, I suspect a lot of the problems with our bullpen depth stem from K-Rod accepting arbitration....that sucked up a lot of budget dollars. It doesn't excuse underperformance across-the-board from the players we have, but it does put some of the struggles into context.

[brewmann04]

The need to move him out of the spot ,they did it with one of the greatest closers when he Struggled here so why not.

[Baldkin]

The need to move him out of the spot ,they did it with one of the greatest closers when he Struggled here so why not.

 

RRR never would've pulled Hoffman from the closers role. Never. Heck, he was all set to demote Fiers and let Estrada start again had Marcum not gotten hurt.

[RockCoCougars]

It's not a good thing to have your closer leading the team in losses. He has to be moved from the closer role for at least the short term.

 

This is also not mentioning the fact that the Brewer offense has been brutal in the 8th and 9th innings this season, so they are making the other team's bullpen look great. Two of the top 3 worst innings 1-9 for the Brewers pitching are unsurprisingly the 8th and the 9th. Two of the top 4 worst offensive inning for the Brewers are the 8th and 9th. Not good. They are being outscored in these two innings by an average of .6 runs a game, which roughly matches the increase in runs allowed in these innings from last year.

 

Those guys in the bullpen have really sabotaged the Brewers season. Had they even cut the meltdowns in half, this team would be right in it, and it's so frustrating.

[PrinceEatMeat]

It's official, Ax is out and K-Rod is in as closer. This is according to multiple people on twitter. McCalvy, Rosiak, etc. 8th inning will be matchups with Loe, Veras, and Parra. Ax will pitch in situations that put him in a position to succeed. Or basically non-pressure situations.

[adambr2]

It's official, Ax is out and K-Rod is in as closer. This is according to multiple people on twitter. McCalvy, Rosiak, etc. 8th inning will be matchups with Loe, Veras, and Parra. Ax will pitch in situations that put him in a position to succeed. Or basically non-pressure situations.

 

I don't understand how this is going to help him. Axford's problems aren't from pitching in pressure situations.

[PrinceEatMeat]

It's official, Ax is out and K-Rod is in as closer. This is according to multiple people on twitter. McCalvy, Rosiak, etc. 8th inning will be matchups with Loe, Veras, and Parra. Ax will pitch in situations that put him in a position to succeed. Or basically non-pressure situations.

 

I don't understand how this is going to help him. Axford's problems aren't from pitching in pressure situations.

 

It's about helping the team more than him. He can't be in there trying to work on control problems while still pitching in pressure situations.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Now there's reports that Ax may work some in the 7th and 8th, so I guess it depends on the situation. I highly doubt he'll get many setup chances in the short-term, because the 8th is just as important as the 9th, so that wouldn't really change anything.

[adamds22]

According to Cot's KRod has performance bonuses for # of games finished $125k each for 15, 20, 25 and $250k for 30. Granted that won't matter a whole lot if we trade him.

[PrinceEatMeat]

http://brewersbeat.mlblogs.com/2012/07/17/for-now-axford-out-as-closer/

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/162789176.html#!page=0&pageSize=10&sort=newestfirst

 

Here's a few links discussing the move.

[TheCrew07]

Relievers: (Under $10 Million here)

Axford

Parra

Thornburg

Rogers or Naveson

Henderson

McClendon

Wooten

 

I'd be okay with McClendon, Hand, and Henderson getting a shot, but if they give up on Thornburg as a starter without even giving him a full season in the majors it would be a horrible way to manage talent. I realize the bullpen stinks this year, but we first need to field an above starting rotation with 1-3s who can match up with the other likely playoff teams. Once the top of the rotation is set, then you can worry about slotting players for the bullpen.

 

We also have plenty of pitchers in AA who's stuff would likely play up if they were converted from starters to relievers. Heckathorn, Stinson, Burgos, and Anundsen all may have a future home in the pen. I'm not necessarily ready to give up on any of them as starters today, but Heckathorn for example hasn't made any improvement repeating the level, he seems like a guy who'd benefit from a change in a role.

 

The real problem with the bullpen as I see it, and I've been saying this since 2007, is that we have too many 1 inning guys and for most of the season we had too many specialists. Certainly players like having a defined role, but that doesn't mean that's the most efficient way to setup or manage the bullpen. I've always favored running a hot reliever more than 1 inning... I despise switching relievers because A pitches the 6th, B pitches the 7th, C pitches the 8th, and D pitches the 9th. If you have a guy who comes in during the 7th has it going on, why not bring him back out for the 8th? Teams are going to use closers regardless of what we think, so I'm not talking about that spot though I'd run someone through the 8th and 9th the same way as I would the 7th and 8th or 6th and 7th in a perfect world. Certainly if a guy struggles to get through his inning I'm okay changing him, but if he mows down the opposition then ride the hot hand.

 

The reason most of these guys are in the pen to begin with is that they either lacked consistently or couldn't go through the order more than once without getting lit up. I say ride the hot hand in the pen and I'd avoid specialists like the plague, though I'd grudgingly make room for 1 LH if he was "that" good, but having RH specialists on the roster is a waste. I'd rather minimize the amount of bullpen moves necessary than maximize the moves having pitchers go 1/3 of an inning at a time.

 

I laugh a little bit every time someone interviews a closer who is a converted starter and he's much happier closing. Of course they are... they have to pitch 1/4 the innings per season, pitching less innings will extend their careers, they get their own "ambiance" as they enter the game, and the good ones still get paid like starting pitchers. What's not to like from the player's perspective?

[pitchleague]

K-Rod has not had a good year overall, but he's been better recently. Axford shows no signs of improvement. Best bet is K-Rod as closer, 8th inning is match-up, Axford figures it out in mop-up.

 

The problem that I see with this is that we haven't had many mop-up type of games this year. Axford would hardly ever be used. Our games, for some reason, have seemed (off the top of my head) to be fairly close most of the time. Tim Dillard was "used" in the mop-up role at times and was hardly used. Livan Hernandez hardly seems like he's on the team.

 

I'm pretty sure that Axford will get some work. I hope it's not too long before he gets himself right.

 

 

It's not easy being a fan of a 2nd place team with a last place bullpen. (Notice the lack of homerism. I could have went with 1st place team but I'm a realist and know they really can't get all the way this year.)

[scuttlebutts]

The need to move him out of the spot ,they did it with one of the greatest closers when he Struggled here so why not.

 

RRR never would've pulled Hoffman from the closers role. Never. Heck, he was all set to demote Fiers and let Estrada start again had Marcum not gotten hurt.

 

Good point. Lucky for RRR that never happened- he would have taken some flack for it.