The Combined 'We're Trading Greinke' Thread (part 1)

[RockCoCougars]

I don't want Olt. It's going to have to be pitching (one with potential to be an upper rotation starter) and/or a shortstop. Otherwise, no deal.

[fondybrewfan]

Isn't Marcum basically untradeable at this point?

 

The Phillies are never going to get for Hamels what they are asking for right now. Trade deadline deals just won't result in as big of returns as they used to because of the draft pick compensation. PHI is not getting 3-4 top prospects from a team for 10 starts of Cole Hamels. Thats crazy talk. That be like giving up Bradley, Jungmann, and Thornburg for Hamels; just dumb and not realistic.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I don't want Olt. It's going to have to be pitching (one with potential to be an upper rotation starter) and/or a shortstop. Otherwise, no deal.

 

Can't say I don't want Olt. I think the guy is gonna be a stud. However, starting pitching is clearly the biggest need going forward. Followed by SS and bullpen. So I gotta think that Melvin will be targeting young arms, probably like Perez, in a Greinke deal. That's what makes the most sense. Right now, the only sure thing in the 2013 rotation is Yovani Gallardo. Fiers looks like a solid option, but that still leaves 3 open spots. Can't really fill all of those with guys like Thornburg, Peralta, and Estrada and expect great results. Maybe use one of those guys, but could use a couple other solid starters.

[RockCoCougars]

Philly seems to always overvalue their players when it comes to deadline deals. I remember that they wouldn't pull the trigger on a C.C. deal because they wouldn't part with (I believe) Kyle Drabek, he of the career 8 wins, 5+ ERA, WHIP nearing 1.7 and now with a major injury. CC could have made the difference for them in the W.S. that year... meanwhile the Brewers rode his back to the playoffs without giving up much at all. Ironically, the Phillies did make another W.S. run in 2009, fleecing Cleveland for Cliff Lee. After losing, they were fleeced for Lee by Seattle that offseason. This is a perfect example of why teams on both side should proceed with caution when it comes to overvaluing prospects.

[trwi7]

CC could have made the difference for them in the W.S. that year...

 

You mean the World Series that they won?

[rickh150]

The Phillies won the WS in 2008, without CC, actually beating him in the NLDS Game 2.

[RockCoCougars]

You're right. I had my years mixed up with the Phillies. Well, they could have swept the World Series then

[jerichoholicninja]

Philly seems to always overvalue their players when it comes to deadline deals. I remember that they wouldn't pull the trigger on a C.C. deal because they wouldn't part with (I believe) Kyle Drabek, he of the career 8 wins, 5+ ERA, WHIP nearing 1.7 and now with a major injury. CC could have made the difference for them in the W.S. that year... meanwhile the Brewers rode his back to the playoffs without giving up much at all. Ironically, the Phillies did make another W.S. run in 2009, fleecing Cleveland for Cliff Lee. After losing, they were fleeced for Lee by Seattle that offseason. This is a perfect example of why teams on both side should proceed with caution when it comes to overvaluing prospects.

 

Drabek also got them Roy Halladay. I would take a few years of Roy over a half season of CC any day.

[RockCoCougars]

Philly seems to always overvalue their players when it comes to deadline deals. I remember that they wouldn't pull the trigger on a C.C. deal because they wouldn't part with (I believe) Kyle Drabek, he of the career 8 wins, 5+ ERA, WHIP nearing 1.7 and now with a major injury. CC could have made the difference for them in the W.S. that year... meanwhile the Brewers rode his back to the playoffs without giving up much at all. Ironically, the Phillies did make another W.S. run in 2009, fleecing Cleveland for Cliff Lee. After losing, they were fleeced for Lee by Seattle that offseason. This is a perfect example of why teams on both side should proceed with caution when it comes to overvaluing prospects.

 

Drabek also got them Roy Halladay. I would take a few years of Roy over a half season of CC any day.

 

The Jays had better hope that catcher comes through, or that one is going to look horrible. Another cautionary tale of trading a star for prospects.

 

My point in this whole thing is twofold. First, their history shows that the Phillies are not going to give Hamels away for a substandard package. Second, the whole prospect/star thing that I alluded to above.

[Bkroppy3]

Lets do Greinke a favor trade him to a contender then resign him after the year would be a win win but very unrealistic. Zach seems pretty knowledgable about the business side of baseball I wonder if he would consider this

[Dollarbill13]

Lets do Greinke a favor trade him to a contender then resign him after the year would be a win win but very unrealistic. Zach seems pretty knowledgable about the business side of baseball I wonder if he would consider this

 

Many people have suggested this already. I doubt Greinke would completely rule us out of the bidding, but we'd still have to come with the best offer (or very close to it).

[cvollbrecht]

If I'm the Brewers I really like what ATL can offer as far as impact pitching. Delgado or Teheran, Zeke Spruill, & Pastornicky would be a great haul for Greinke. According to minorleagueball.com that is 3 B prospects possibly 1 A and 2 B's if its Teheran instead of Delgado. That trade fill the hole at SS (temporarily at least) and gives us 2 pitchers that can be in our rotation as soon as next year with front end potential.

[paul253]

The Brewers need to remember that they are in the driver's seat here.

 

The longer the Brewers hold onto Greinke the less in the driver's seat they are. With the new draft rules I see it more and more likely that the Brewers make a bargain pick with one of the two picks they'd get for Greinke. Like this year taking Haniger over Gallo. And if they end up getting picks for Marcum too it'll be even worse. As far as I am concerned draft picks are nothing more than a consolation prize. Resigning Greinke would be a grand prize and trading him for an impact prospect, no matter what position he plays, would be next best. Getting the 24th and 33rd picks (for instance) is not an attractive option to me. It's better than nothing but I'd have a hard time believing the prospects they could get for Greinke would be a worse deal than the crapshoot of where you get the comp picks and who you get with them. The Brewers haven't had a whole lot of success with comp picks lately and I'd hate to see Greinke leave and us draft two guys who take 5 years to flame out in AA. This as opposed to most likely getting a player or two who is already experiencing success in AA like Mike Olt.

 

Unfortunately the Brewers are getting hot at the wrong time and I feel like Melvin and Mark A will look for any glimmer of hope to convince themselves they are contenders.

[RockCoCougars]

Oswalt getting lit up again for the Rangers. Looks like they are going to have to pony up or settle for mediocrity.

 

Additionally, the Braves are losing to the Cubbies again today. If this holds up, the Braves will be three games up on the Crew with half a season left. Considering what happened last year (both ways), should the Braves be serious buyers or the Brewers be serious sellers at this point? I say no.

[And That]

I'm puzzled that some people think that Mike Olt isn't a really good prospect. He strikes out a fair bit, but he also walks a lot, has more than enough power, and is a plus defender at third to boot. Even if he only hits .250 and strikes out 180 times a year, he'll have a ton of cost controlled value.

[RockCoCougars]

I worry about a guy that strikes out that much at the lower levels of the minors. It tells me that he has big holes in his swing. Olt could turn out to be a stud. He could also turn out to be the next Matt LaPorta. Maybe he's somewhere in the middle and is a Russell Branyan (the good years). To me, the bottom line is that 3b is not a position of need for the Brewers now, or for the next two years. IF the Brewers are going to trade their best asset, they had better use it to shore up the two areas where they have a glaring need moving forward- pitching and shortstop. Texas has to decide how much they value a possible championship. If they want to hold onto Profar and play for the next several years, fine, but then I wouldn't give them Greinke then unless they wanted to send some serious pitching back (if you ask me, based around Feliz and I'd probably demand Holland and Grimm as well).

[Kelbysdaddy]

If we cant get profar, they have a pretty decent ss prospect in rougned odor. Hes a few years away but looks to have a lot of potential.

[paul253]

To me, the bottom line is that 3b is not a position of need for the Brewers now, or for the next two years.

 

Well you could put Olt in Nashville all next year so that would leave only one year of overlap. Hopefully they could move Ramirez then if Olt is ready even if it means paying a portion of Ramirez' salary. Ramirez is going to turn 36 in the final year of his contract. His production may certainly drop off and/or he may have some injury issues. Having a guy who can come in to replace him would be important. The Brewers don't really have any third base prospects of significant value in the minors.

IF the Brewers are going to trade their best asset, they had better use it to shore up the two areas where they have a glaring need moving forward- pitching and shortstop.

 

I think you need to approach this like the draft and just take the best player you can get, regardless of position. Obviously a shortstop would be nice but there aren't a ton of shortstops available and if you insist on that you may end up being very disappointed. The Brewers have a ton of holes in their system, especially at the upper levels. I hope they are not too picky.

[danzig6767]

I may be WAY unrealistic but I don't really care. Aces, even with only 3 months of service time remaining, aren't that easy to find. If Texas wants Greinke you have to start with Profar. Our biggest trade chip SHOULD fill our biggest hole, namely SS. Hang up the phone without him and stand firm.

 

There is something which needs to be factored in for any team that might try to trade for Greinke or any rental player, that being changes in the new CBA regarding comp picks.

 

In the past, if say Texas did trade for Greinke and he signed elsewhere after the season,, Texas would get a first round and sandwich pick. That made it much easier to stomach trading valued prospects for only a few months of a rental acquired at the deadline. This can no longer happen though because a player needs to be with a team all season long to get picks in return.

 

So it will be interesting to see if/how that change in the CBA impacts just how much teams are willing to give up for a few months rental given they can't count on getting some comp picks after the season.

[Oldcity]

I think that's why Melvin (if he trades Greinke) will try to maneuver these teams and get Texas to give up Holland and Olt.

 

http://www.rebuild-from-depression.com/pictures/Busters/HallandOats.jpg

 

We could have so much fun with Photoshop.

[JohnBriggs12]

Shortstop is a hole, but this team won 96 games with Yuni Betancourt at SS. They have a 25 year old SS at AAA hitting over .300 too. You can win without a top SS. You can't win without solid pitching and losing Greinke creates a bigger hole than they have at SS. You take the best possible package back regardless of position with emphasis on getting back pitching. If you are very confident that somehow you can sign Greinke after trading him maybe that changes things some.

[miggs721]

Rosenthal's latest made me lol....As vince Mcmahon said, "No Chance in Hell:....also I like some of their young pitching like Carlos Martinez and Tyrell Jenkins

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Chris-Carpenter-St-Louis-Cardinals-John-Mozeliak-Peter-Bourjos-Colby-Rasmus-070312

[trwi7]

Why no chance in hell? If the Cardinals are willing to give up a ton and it's the best offer the Brewers would be stupid not to take it just because they're in our division.

[miggs721]

I just don't see us trading with our most heated rival, that's all, and I think Texas when it's all said and done will be Greinke's landing spot, if he is traded at all

[Eye Black]

Rosenthal's latest made me lol....As vince Mcmahon said, "No Chance in Hell:....also I like some of their young pitching like Carlos Martinez and Tyrell Jenkins

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Chris-Carpenter-St-Louis-Cardinals-John-Mozeliak-Peter-Bourjos-Colby-Rasmus-070312

The related video mentions the Angels had a scout at one of Greinke's recent starts. As the article points out, they seem likely to make a play for Greinke in free agency, but depending on the severity of Haren's back issues they could enter the Greinke rental pool this year. If so, they would have some very good trade pieces including shortstop Jean Segura, and other top prospects... Kaleb Cowart, CJ Cron, and Garrett Richards.