The Combined 'We're Trading Greinke' Thread (part 1)

[jerichoholicninja]

The D-Backs lost Hudson for the year. Anything Arizona has worth looking at?

[reillymcshane]

 

Lets say you could take back Orodzzi and Escobar. That an adequate trade you'd make?

 

Not the Escobar that's hitting .290/.330 playing great D and the Odorizzi tearing it up in AAA, the caliber of players they were when we had them?

 

That's my dilemma. Do the Braves give up Simmons and Teheran a pitcher who the shine has come off quite a bit? Because I'm having trouble finding many SS's right now that are available on teams that are good enough that Grienke could put them over the top. Frankly the O's trading Machado would be like the Brewers trading Braun simply because we got off to a hot start making no mention of the fact that they're also in a division that it'd likely take Greinke and Hamels to win. So logically you should write them off.

 

 

Here are the best SS prospects and the teams they play on.

Texas Obviously. We've beaten this one to death. I think the Rangers are just simply not going to trade Profar. I just think he's too good.

 

Cincinnati Reds

Billy Hamilton? I think he's probably the 3rd best SS. Perfect fit...teams and positional strength...if this was 1992 and not 2012 and we were still in the AL, but do the Reds really want a guy who could steal 150 bases a year and hit .270/.340...and I don't know that he's a long term SS or not. That would play into it.

 

Zach Cozart? I have to admit, watching him range over behind second and go into the hole so effortlessly reminded me of Hardy this past weekend. He just looked like a SS who is going to be a GOOD SS for a long time, and Hardy spoiled us. Even when he struggled at his worst he was an asset and I think we now realize that. 9.1 WAR the two years before we had Escobar nipping at his heals and we sent him down. Even that year he had a 1.5 WAR and put up a line of .230/.300 with plus defense. Who the hell wouldn't jump at that right now?

Cozart is hitting about .250/.300/.401 thus far and has a 1.5 WAR. I really think he's a Hardy type player.

 

But again, the Reds aren't going to trade within the division and I really doubt they're going to trade their current starting SS that kinda brings their IF together and bump a Billy Hamilton up.

 

So very unlikely to the Reds.

 

But are you alright with getting just Hamilton for Greinke? I'm not. I'd want at least Daniel Corcino or their first rounder last year Robert Stephenson.

 

Minnesota-Miguel Sano? He's not a SS anymore and he's not even close to being on a team that's got a chance to win.

Cleveland-Francisco Lindor They're a team in contention and Greinke could certainly give them a big boost. Though I still think with Grienke the Tigers end up passing them up, and in the process they lose an elite young SS who at just 18 is performing well at A+ ball. But they're in it, and they have the one position we covet. And he's one of the best on this list.

 

Boston-Xander Bogaerts is a very good SS prospect and Boston is the exact type of team that needs Greinke. They're in a brutal division with possibly 5 teams that could win the NLC. But again, he alone? Jose Iglesias is a better defender, but has been brutal offensively in AAA. Either case we need something coming back. I'd want Daniel Bart at the very least. Still not loving that trade.

 

Atlanta-Another great fit.

Tyler Pastornicky is theguy with the lower ceiling. Andrelton Simmons is the real price out of the two. One has a chance to be a 2.5-3.0 WAR type offensive player while Simmons can be an electric defender and be a .300 hitter. I think he's a 4.5 WAR type player.

 

 

Beyond that, the Rays have a couple good SS, but seriously...what do they need Greinke for? If we're prying away a minor leaguer from them, it's for Corey Hart and it's going to have to include more than just him even. Maybe Kottaras+Hart+K-Rod+5-6 million for Hak-Ju Lee+a B- pitching prsopect? I don't know.

 

 

I think Atlanta and Boston are the two teams that NEED Greinke the most to get INTO the playoffs, Texas is desperate for a WS, and if they're desperate enough to give up Profar, turn off the lights because it's over, it's him. But I don't think it will be.

 

So I'm looking at Atlanta, THEN try and hope Baltimore or Cleveland to delude themselves into thinking they've got a legit playoff team and that they can actually win something, praying Texas is happy with Andrus and thinks that Greinke pushes what's already the best team in the game over the top and trades arguably the top prospect in the game of baseball because of the heartbreak of the last two years.

 

 

So we start with Texas IMO, move onto Baltimore, then onto Cleveland, all of whom are likely to say no, then we go to the Atlanta's, Boston's, and Cincinnati in that order. But with Taylor Green, Gamel, Gennett, a Slew of OF'ers, pretty good looking at catcher, I think we need to target a young SS who can project to be a star and make him the focus of the sell. Then just pitching, pitching, pitching.

 

We have some impact bats on this team that'll be around for a while. We should focus heavily on the DR/LA market and hope to be a 65 win team the next two years netting us top 5 picks, hopefully then we'll get a couple of our young pitchers up, shoot for 80-85 wins, build the farm system completely, no trades unless it's for other prospects and we could have a quick 5 year turnaround in which we've still got some great pieces and we're ready to compete.

 

That would include Braun, Lucroy, Thornburg and Weeks.

The rest should be on the market.

 

Gallardo for a kings ransom, but we will struggle most of his contract in Milwaukee.

Greinke-obviously

Hart-Good trade value

Kottaras-Great for a team that's lost it's starting pitcher

Marcum once eh's healthy again;

Axford once his value goes back up. This year if he can get on a hot streak.

K-Rod

Wolf-He's pitching better, if he can pick it up enough to dump him for a C+ prospect, do it.

Talk D'Vo into coming back pronto.

Veras-See what you can get from them.

 

Take the payroll down as far as possible, save them money for the future, start building up a reserve if need be in order to sign a couple FA's when the time comes or extend our studs.

See what you have in guys like Fiers, Estrada, Burgos, Peralta, Rogers next year in the rotation, as well as guys like Manzanillo, Wooten, Henderson, and just keep developing from within.

 

 

Don't sell a potential poor mans Pedroia for a rental because you're only 6 games back. If you get 2-3 games within, fine, but not until then.

 

 

 

This is a waving of the white flag, and it's premature, but the thing is, if Weeks gets going, Aram keeps hitting, Braun is Braun, Lucroy hits, Gomez keeps having good AB's(he's hit into a LOT of hard outs this year and simply looks different than before), Morgan continues his hot streak, Hart keeps it up, all of which should happen, we could easily get back into this in a 2 week period.

 

HiAndTight, there's a lot of info here - thanks. I agree, this is waving the white flag. Probably for at least 2012-13. But if we are going to surrender, i'd rather just clean house and get what we can for guys who won't be here.

 

Getting a good, young SS is on everyone's mind, but I think just getting the BEST talent is as important. Sure, if a SS is there, go for it. But other than catcher, I don't think there's any position we couldn't use in coming years.

[Oldcity]

I'd definitely put the Tigers near the top. They have a need on a team looking to win, and they have some good prospects.

[monty57]

Good post HiandTight,

 

Pastronicky is a very realistic target, and may not even take Greinke. Simmons is younger, better and has replaced him on the Braves roster, so he really has nowhere to go with the Braves. If we could get him in some package of our "lesser chips," and we could get a couple of MLB ready starting pitchers with our "big chips," we could infuse a lot of young talent quickly.

 

An IF of Gamel, Weeks, Pastronicky, Ramirez, Lucroy and an OF of Braun, Schafer/Gomez, Aoki isn't that bad for a "down year," when we could break in the MLB ready guys we traded for and our own young pitchers. It's possible we could have a quick rebuild, but it will take some good moves this season from Melvin.

 

praying Texas is happy with Andrus and thinks that Greinke pushes what's already the best team in the game over the top and trades arguably the top prospect in the game of baseball because of the heartbreak of the last two years.

 

I'm really interested in seeing what Greinke will bring back in trade. I'm trying not to get my hopes up too high, as he's probably not going to bring back a Profar/Machado, but the above sentence pretty much sums it up. Maybe, just maybe there will be a bidding war and some GM will get overenthusiastic with playoff fever and give up more than we'd expect. More realistically, I'm looking at someone like the Braves and thinking what it might take to get Pastronicky.

[chuckiehacks]

I'm interested to see how GMs will value rentals. I think it's human nature for them to think about past years and then reduce their perceived value, since they won't get draft picks.

 

Between the extra wildcard and the fact that players like Grienke are worth more than to their existing team (at least in terms of draft picks) than to other teams, I think the activity at the trade deadline will be down this year.

[adamds22]

I don't like the whole Olt for Grienke idea, do we really want a guy that K's in 25% of his AB's in the Minors?!? We already have a few of those guys on the team (Weeks and Hart). Granted I don't know much about him but I think we need to steer clear of something like that having possibly 3 spots in the lineup that K a ton would not be a good thing.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I like the idea of acquiring Pastornicky, because he's a guy who could step in and play right away. Plus, he could easily be had in a trade at this point.

[Kelbysdaddy]

I'm interested to see how GMs will value rentals. I think it's human nature for them to think about past years and then reduce their perceived value, since they won't get draft picks.

 

Between the extra wildcard and the fact that players like Grienke are worth more than to their existing team (at least in terms of draft picks) than to other teams, I think the activity at the trade deadline will be down this year.

I think with the extra wild card there will be more trades actually. More teams will think they have a good chance at making the playoffs and will be buyers.

[jerichoholicninja]

I like the idea of acquiring Pastornicky, because he's a guy who could step in and play right away. Plus, he could easily be had in a trade at this point.

 

His own team doesn't want him, why should the Brewers? Nothing about his stats in the majors or the minors screams major leaguer.

[TheCrew07]

Puig deal signals bright Dodger future

“We’re the DODGERS — put that in all caps,” team president Stan Kasten said. “We’re supposed to be big. We intend to be big.”

 

The Dodgers, according to major-league sources, have talked multiple times to two likely sellers, the Cubs and Astros, and a third club that also could trade veterans, the Brewers. In addition, they’ve touched base with a number of other teams, including the Mariners, Royals, Twins, Blue Jays and Padres, sources said.

[ListachRides]

If Marcum gets healthy, I could see us dealing him for Pastornicky (with maybe some other low profile prospect thrown in).

[RockCoCougars]

I've posted this before, but never gotten a firm answer....why does everyone seem to want Pastornicky so badly?

 

If the Brewers are going to be dumping guys and shedding salary, I'd prefer that they wait until the off season and throw some money at someone like Stephen Drew rather then trade assets for a guy that looks to be a borderline starter, best case. Drew seems to be on the outs with the Diamondbacks and maybe he will be a J.J. Hardy type buy low guy on the market.

[monty57]

Puig deal signals bright Dodger future

“We’re the DODGERS — put that in all caps,” team president Stan Kasten said. “We’re supposed to be big. We intend to be big.”

 

The Dodgers, according to major-league sources, have talked multiple times to two likely sellers, the Cubs and Astros, and a third club that also could trade veterans, the Brewers. In addition, they’ve touched base with a number of other teams, including the Mariners, Royals, Twins, Blue Jays and Padres, sources said.

 

...and when you go to the Dodgers site, the first headline that hits you is "Dodgers fall out of first place as losing streak hits five games." I smell some desperation in the air.

 

I don't know how they'd match up with us in prospects they could send back, but we have a lot of pieces they'd covet.

 

1) They have some pitching prospects, but are any of them good enough return for Greinke? Would a package of Zach Lee and Eovaldi be asking too much/too little for Greinke? That would give us a good pitcher to put in the rotation now and next year, and a top prospect who's a couple of years out.

 

2) A healthy Marcum for either Eovaldi or Lee might be more realistic, and he would be an upgrade for them.

 

3) Maybe they'd want Wolf back. I don't know how much he's worth, but if we couldn't find a match for Marcum or Greinke, LA could be a team that would trade for Wolf, as he had some good years as a Dodger.

 

4) I'm sure they'd love Hart to replace Rivera - an outfield of Kemp, Ethier, Hart would be dominant.

 

5) Their current 3B situation is Uribe and Hairston, so they could use a veteran slugging 3B, and if they like big, they'd love Ramirez's contract. If we could get rid of that contract before it balloons, and get something back in return, I'd be really happy.

[RockCoCougars]

The Dodgers have nothing that I'd be interested in as a seller.

[Raw Biz]

I've posted this before, but never gotten a firm answer....why does everyone seem to want Pastornicky so badly?

 

If the Brewers are going to be dumping guys and shedding salary, I'd prefer that they wait until the off season and throw some money at someone like Stephen Drew rather then trade assets for a guy that looks to be a borderline starter, best case. Drew seems to be on the outs with the Diamondbacks and maybe he will be a J.J. Hardy type buy low guy on the market.

 

I don't get it either. He's only 22, sure, but he really hasn't hit much in his career, minors or majors. And he doesn't seem like anything more than average (at best) defensively at SS and may be better suited for 2B. Sure I would take him because our options at SS are rather limited now. But I definitely wouldn't take him as anything more than a throw-in for Greinke (i.e. in addition to Teheran/Delgado/Minor types) or even for Marcum straight-up.

[ninja33]

Pastornicky is not an answer at shortstop. He's a utility guy that can be used as a stopgap until a solution is found (like he was at the beginning of this season). He's an average to above average fielder (not very many physical gifts, but good instincts) with a mediocre arm. He just screams Willie Bloomquist to me. There's a place for guys like that in the league (and on the Brewers), but that's not the piece I'd be looking for by trading Marcum, Hart, or especially Greinke.

 

The Braves are still a good trading partner, and from the talk around here it sounds like they're open to discussing Teheran in a Greinke deal. I know we're all focused on shortstops (for good reason), but if the plan is to maximize talent in the return it's hard to do much better than Teheran. I understand his star has fallen a little bit, but he was still looked at by many as the #1 prospect in baseball coming into this season. With his struggles in AAA this year, maybe you can get Teheran with a lower level guy or two (Nick Ahmed is a shortstop in A+ ball who looks good defensively and competent with the bat) for Greinke.

[ninja33]

Puig deal signals bright Dodger future

“We’re the DODGERS — put that in all caps,” team president Stan Kasten said. “We’re supposed to be big. We intend to be big.”

 

The Dodgers, according to major-league sources, have talked multiple times to two likely sellers, the Cubs and Astros, and a third club that also could trade veterans, the Brewers. In addition, they’ve touched base with a number of other teams, including the Mariners, Royals, Twins, Blue Jays and Padres, sources said.

 

...and when you go to the Dodgers site, the first headline that hits you is "Dodgers fall out of first place as losing streak hits five games." I smell some desperation in the air.

 

I don't know how they'd match up with us in prospects they could send back, but we have a lot of pieces they'd covet.

 

1) They have some pitching prospects, but are any of them good enough return for Greinke? Would a package of Zach Lee and Eovaldi be asking too much/too little for Greinke? That would give us a good pitcher to put in the rotation now and next year, and a top prospect who's a couple of years out.

 

2) A healthy Marcum for either Eovaldi or Lee might be more realistic, and he would be an upgrade for them.

 

3) Maybe they'd want Wolf back. I don't know how much he's worth, but if we couldn't find a match for Marcum or Greinke, LA could be a team that would trade for Wolf, as he had some good years as a Dodger.

 

4) I'm sure they'd love Hart to replace Rivera - an outfield of Kemp, Ethier, Hart would be dominant.

 

5) Their current 3B situation is Uribe and Hairston, so they could use a veteran slugging 3B, and if they like big, they'd love Ramirez's contract. If we could get rid of that contract before it balloons, and get something back in return, I'd be really happy.

 

That's what I was saying a few pages back....desperation + lots of $$$ + Ned Colletti = damn near impossible to lose a trade. Although they don't have a very strong farm system...I don't think they're a match for Greinke, but if Milwaukee decides to go into firesale mode Colletti should be on speed dial.

[jerichoholicninja]

The Dodgers traded Carlos Santana for Casey Blake.

 

They can be taken advantage of.

[Raw Biz]

I'd do Lee and Eovaldi for Marcum if he comes back healthy soon. Not enough for Greinke IMO though.

[RockCoCougars]

If it came to it and the Brewers were selling, I'd probably do Eovaldi for Marcum straight up. Don't know if the Dodgers would though. They don't have the firepower to get Greinke.

[TheCrew07]

Pastornicky is not an answer at shortstop. He's a utility guy that can be used as a stopgap until a solution is found (like he was at the beginning of this season). He's an average to above average fielder (not very many physical gifts, but good instincts) with a mediocre arm. He just screams Willie Bloomquist to me. There's a place for guys like that in the league (and on the Brewers), but that's not the piece I'd be looking for by trading Marcum, Hart, or especially Greinke.

 

The Braves are still a good trading partner, and from the talk around here it sounds like they're open to discussing Teheran in a Greinke deal. I know we're all focused on shortstops (for good reason), but if the plan is to maximize talent in the return it's hard to do much better than Teheran.

 

I completely agree on Pastornicky, he's setting the bar awfully low.

 

I guess I might be in the minority but I'd rather get pitching for Greinke than a SS. I worry though what type of pitching Melvin might look to acquire so I'd be fine with an impact bat.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Pastornicky would be a throw in. That's what we're talking about here. And I'd be fine with that. We'd obviously get other, better prospects in the deal also.

[monty57]

I don't think anyone's gaga over Pastronicky. If we could get him for some of our lesser trade chips, then we could use our bigger trade chips to go after better players at other positions. He's probably good enough to start, but not good enough to block a good prospect like Simmons. We don't have any good SS's, so I'd take him at a low cost.

 

Pastronicky shouldn't be in the Greinke, Marcum or Hart talks unless preceded by "Teheran isn't enough, also give us..."

[paul253]

Pastornicky would be a nice option to have for SS next season but no way is the centerpiece of a deal. Pastornicky and Teheran for Greinke and a low level low/mid ceiling prospect is what I'd look for if Atlanta came calling.

[JackNicholson1974]

So long as Teheran isnt Jose Capellan 2.0