What do we do with Maldonado?

[torts]

I'd look to trade Kottaras. He's going to be arby eligible this offseason, and with Lucroy and Maldonado, I could see us not offering him arby and losing him for nothing. Therefore, in order to get something out of him, it's probably best to trade him for something now. I don't expect much, but maybe we could get a relief pitcher (which we will need going forward), a bench bat, or a high-upside A-baller.

 

seeing as he's also not a free agent until 2016, he's got value in that he's a controlled cost for the brewers or any team. in arbitration, he'll probably get around $1.0/1.2 million for next season.

[crossface21]

I don't see the point in having a guy play 1st 4-5x a week, and then catch the rest of the time. I understand the thinking to keep Lucroy fresh, but then why not just make him the permanent 1B? Keep Maldonado as your everyday C and move Hart back to RF. Then you gotta figure out what to do with Gamel. The amount of different transactions Melvin is going to have to decide on from the trade deadline all the way up to next season to figure out who's playing and where they are playing on this team next year are going to be fascinating.

[Baldkin]

Defense means something.

 

Hart is very, very good at 1B. Lucroy is by far our best defensive C, no matter what everyone thinks of Maldanado. Lucroy also won't continue to hit .330, and I like the odds of Morgan/Gomez out producing Maldanado going forward.

[TURBO]

I think that some of us are hanging our hats on Kottaras's great April. He hasn't done much of anything since then, in fact, when he comes out to the on deck circle, I cringe.

 

If we can trade him, trade him! Maldy deserves to stick the rest of this year, he has earned it. No need to complicate this situation with veteran nonsense. You keep the best players, and if GK is our best option as a PH, then we are screwed anyway.

 

I don't care what we do with Kottaras, he seems pretty much worthless to me. Average hitter at best and a below average catcher with a noodle arm. If Wolf has a problem with that, screw him too. He just isn't good enough to dictate any type of roster move regarding Maldy and Kottaras. It is a no brainer, dump Kottaras, and Wolf too if he can't survive without him. I hope and pray Wolf is gone next year.

 

Maldanado has become one of my favorite Brewers, he deserves to stay with this team period!

[jmeks23]

We've gone over this in previous discussions, but Lucroy loses a lot of his value in a transition to 1B. His offense becomes average (or below if his power never comes around) when put at the 1B position. He needs to catch.

[slappzilla]

I think you guys are taking too much into the small sample sizes of Maldanado and LuCroy this year when you say put LuCroy at 1B and have Maldanado catch.

 

LuCroy was on fire before he got drunk and broke his hand, err, his wife dropped the suitcase on his hand, but let's not forget he was a career 8 spot hitter pre-hot streak. Chances of LuCroy being as good as he was pre-injury for the rest of the year maybe a stretch at best.

 

Same goes for Maldanado. He was batting .200 before his call up (though admittedly in 2011 he killed it in AAA).

 

I wouldn't keep all 3 guys and I wouldn't start any of them at 1B either. I like Hart at 1B and I think the Brewers OF is fairly deep. If Morgan/Gomez can't right their ship bring up Schaefer for CF.

 

I'd trade Kotteras first and foremost, but if Kotteras doesn't garnish anything worth a lick on the market and Maldanado does garnish something real nice, I'd part with Maldanado and sell him high.

[Raw Biz]

LuCroy was on fire before he got drunk and broke his hand, err, his wife dropped the suitcase on his hand, but let's not forget he was a career 8 spot hitter pre-hot streak. Chances of LuCroy being as good as he was pre-injury for the rest of the year maybe a stretch at best.

 

First, its "Lucroy," not "LuCroy." Not sure why so many people keep making this mistake. Also, why in the hell are you trying to start rumors that he was drunk? That kind of stuff shouldn't be tolerated here. Go post at jsonline if that's what you're going to do.

[slappzilla]

I was joking, but if you want to push the envelope and act as if I'm just sitting here trying to start hellacious rumors about LucrOy (like you just insinuated), I can link to a story regarding their being some legitimacy to alcohol being involved in the accident.

[monty57]

I'd look to trade Kottaras. He's going to be arby eligible this offseason, and with Lucroy and Maldonado, I could see us not offering him arby and losing him for nothing. Therefore, in order to get something out of him, it's probably best to trade him for something now. I don't expect much, but maybe we could get a relief pitcher (which we will need going forward), a bench bat, or a high-upside A-baller.

 

seeing as he's also not a free agent until 2016, he's got value in that he's a controlled cost for the brewers or any team. in arbitration, he'll probably get around $1.0/1.2 million for next season.

 

Yeah, my next paragraph used an example of bringing back someone like Mets' backup OF Baxter. Kottaras is a backup with team control, so he should be able to bring back a backup with team control. Maybe "I don't expect much" wasn't the best way to say it. I don't expect we'll get starting-caliber talent back for him, but we should be able to bring back someone who could play in the majors, or a young "high-risk/high-return" type minor leaguer.

 

This is a classic example of an older, more expensive player blocking a younger, more talented, less expensive player. That doesn't mean the older player has no value, it just means he is tradeable. The Brewers could benefit by getting better, younger and cheaper and also could get another player at a position of need.

[rluzinski]

Nobody earns the right to stay in the majors based on a decent but unspectacular 136 PA's. The question is simply, what is in the best interests of the Brewers in both the short and long term.

 

I don't think losing Kottaras would be a huge loss but I still think he is a decent option as a back up catcher pinch hitter. I don't see him having much value in the coming years, though. If Kottaras wants any kind of money next year, just let him walk.

 

In his limited stint in the majors, Maldonado has looked great defensively and pretty good offensively. His minor league offensive numbers suggest that he's not ready to sustain it, though. I'd rather give him every day duties in the minors until at least next year.

 

And Lucroy at 1B is a terrible idea. Lucroy is defensively adequate at a premium defensive position. Moving him to the easiest defensive position would just kill his value to the Brewers. It's all about the defensive spectrum.

[thebruce44]

I was joking, but if you want to push the envelope and act as if I'm just sitting here trying to start hellacious rumors about LucrOy (like you just insinuated), I can link to a story regarding their being some legitimacy to alcohol being involved in the accident.

 

I think the bigger issue is that its somewhat irrelevant to this thread. But if you want to post some speculative article as fact, don't let me stop you.

[reillymcshane]

Trade Kottaras for whatever you can get for him. He's got some value - not a ton - but someone will probably be interested in him. Just don't expect a lot. But we're not talking about Yogi Berra here. He's a back up catcher with limited defensive skills. Sure he's got some pop from the left side - and the walk rate is great. But he's not irreplaceable.

 

Maldonado is cheaper and better defensively than Kottaras. All three of Maldonado, Lucroy and Kottaras have shown they can play in the majors. George is the guy who draws the short straw. Less upside, costs more, etc. So get what you can.

[igor67]

For the above post on Lucroy's skill at framing, it is worth noting that Baseball Prospectus recently was questioning some of the magnitude of Lucroy's skil because Maldanado was putting up similarly high numbers at framing in limited ABs. Keep in mind the skepticism was not a dismissal just raising the idea that the numbers were unusually high and possibly there was some contribution from an unknown park factor. For the purposes of this discussion both catchers are quite good defensively overall with Maldanado have a more complete set of defensive skills.

 

Maldanado's numbers will almost certainly regress a little, but after having no stick for most of his career he looks to have found enough of a bat the last couple of years that his current offense isn't ridiculously over his head. Further he is good enough that he should play often enough to keep Lucroy fresher throughout the season in general. There is plenty of playing time to go around between those two to keep them up. Frankly I'd rather teams get a good look at Maldanado, so we can see if he can make the on going adjustments hitters need to make to stay viable. Kottaras has modest value, he might not have hit much over the fence since April, but he is still walking like crazy and someone has to be #25 on the bench. I'd rather it be someone who has some use to the team than a random punchless middle IF.

[Sixtofan]

To be honest, it never occurred to me that he would be anything other than the backup to Lucroy. I assumed Kottaras would be included in some sort of deadline deal.

Worst case you send Maldonado back down and bring him up Sept 1 but I have to believe our 2013 catching duo in Lucroy/Maldonado

[Kelbysdaddy]

kottaras should be able to get at least a decent player from the low minors. if wolf has a problem with george getting traded- tell him he should pitch better

[FullMetalCardigan]

Nobody earns the right to stay in the majors based on a decent but unspectacular 136 PA's. The question is simply, what is in the best interests of the Brewers in both the short and long term.

 

I don't think losing Kottaras would be a huge loss but I still think he is a decent option as a back up catcher pinch hitter. I don't see him having much value in the coming years, though. If Kottaras wants any kind of money next year, just let him walk.

 

In his limited stint in the majors, Maldonado has looked great defensively and pretty good offensively. His minor league offensive numbers suggest that he's not ready to sustain it, though. I'd rather give him every day duties in the minors until at least next year.

 

And Lucroy at 1B is a terrible idea. Lucroy is defensively adequate at a premium defensive position. Moving him to the easiest defensive position would just kill his value to the Brewers. It's all about the defensive spectrum.

 

Not to nitpick because I agree with most of this, but MM is hitting .285 in his 136 PA's and has a better OBP than Weeks. That's more than decent and combined with his defense and attitude earns him the right to stay in the majors. His minor league numbers don't portend an inevitable offensive decline either, or at least not some kind of cliff drop. He hit .321 in AAA last year and .287 overall. Kid is only 25.

 

Hart is our every day first baseman moving forward. Lucroy at 1B isn't happening. But as long as we're spitballing, what about Lucroy in right field? He's got good speed and a good arm.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

The thought on Lucroy at another position is to get his bat in the lineup when he can't catch. Obviously that depends on what the other options are, but he can't catch more than 3/4 of the games. Dropping that a little and keeping his bat in the lineup is something to consider if we don't have a Hart or Aoki to rely on.

[slappzilla]

To be honest, it never occurred to me that he would be anything other than the backup to Lucroy. I assumed Kottaras would be included in some sort of deadline deal.

Worst case you send Maldonado back down and bring him up Sept 1 but I have to believe our 2013 catching duo in Lucroy/Maldonado

Agree with this completely.

 

Get best possible option for Kotteras but get something for him, don't just let him go.

[Raw Biz]

Sorry but I'm sick of all this Lucroy to another position stuff. The guy has had a great year offensively. But its only been 151 PAs. He started off hot last year too and finished with a .703 OPS. There is no need to move him off catcher, as he provides a lot of value there with his bat and his average to above-average defense.

 

If you move him to a corner position, he becomes below average offensively and would have to learn a defensive position he's never played professionally. Lucroy is not a .950 OPS guy. He's most likely somewhere in the .750 to .825 range. Also, catcher is a demanding position. The guy will need his days off. Having him catch 3 days a week and play 1B/RF on his days off won't give him much rest. Keep him at catcher and let him and Maldonado split time (ultimately something like 70-30 when he's fully rested). It's not like Lucroy's a Buster Posey, VMart, or even Mauer-type offensively that moving him is a good idea. And even Mauer at 1B isn't great because of his lack of power.

[rluzinski]

Not to nitpick because I agree with most of this, but MM is hitting .285 in his 136 PA's and has a better OBP than Weeks. That's more than decent and combined with his defense and attitude earns him the right to stay in the majors. His minor league numbers don't portend an inevitable offensive decline either, or at least not some kind of cliff drop. He hit .321 in AAA last year and .287 overall. Kid is only 25.

 

I didn't say he was hitting "decent", I said "pretty good". And you can compare his numbers to anyone you want but again, the fact that it has occurred in only 136 PAs makes the actual results almost beside the point. To suggest a rookie has earned the right to stay in the majors because he plays great D and has a OPS of almost .800 in 136 PA... You are acting like he is a stud prospect and has nothing left to prove in the minors. Just like any other 25 year old middling prospect after 136 PAs in the majors, he's earned nothing yet.

 

And I agree, he IS only 25 and has potential. That's why I want him be sent down and get more starts.

[FullMetalCardigan]

I didn't say he was hitting "decent", I said "pretty good". And you can compare his numbers to anyone you want but again, the fact that it has occurred in only 136 PAs makes the actual results almost beside the point. To suggest a rookie has earned the right to stay in the majors because he plays great D and has a OPS of almost .800 in 136 PA... You are acting like he is a stud prospect and has nothing left to prove in the minors. Just like any other 25 year old middling prospect after 136 PAs in the majors, he's earned nothing yet.

 

And I agree, he IS only 25 and has potential. That's why I want him be sent down and get more starts.

 

You said "decent but unspectacular" referring to his first 136 PA's. Whatever, we're splitting hairs. I don't know how many PA's and game starts it takes to get a true barometer of a rookie's hitting potential but in my mind, he's proven himself. Moreso than any rookie position player callup/promotion the Brewers have made the last two seasons, including Gamel. And he is a stud prospect from a defensive standpoint.

 

But I understand the argument you're making and do see the value in him getting consistent starts in AAA vs. catching every fifth or fourth game. I think it's the glaring black holes in our lineup (SS, 2B, non Aoki CF) that are in part fueling the case for keeping him in the bigs.

[logan82]

Unfortunately he doesn't play any of those positions.

[Funketown]

I'd see if anybody is interested in Kottaras at the deadline but unless somebody offers a decent return I'd probably choose to go with three catchers for the rest of the season. Sending Maldonado down to AAA for just one month to give him 100 or so PA's rather than starting only 1-2 games per week might also be a reasonable plan.

 

I've seen enough of Maldonado to say that I think he's capable of being a solid backup MLB catcher. I don't think he'll continue to hit near this level, but a good defensive catcher who hits something like .250/.300/.350 is very serviceable for 40-50 starts per year.

 

The last thing I want to see happen is Lucroy moved away from catcher. As a catcher he's a pretty valuable player, but it wouldn't be difficult to find a cheap 1B that could outhit Lucroy. Luckily, I don't think the Brewers brass is even considering moving him.

[Fear The Chorizo]

If Wolf is somehow traded the Brewers might as well send Kottaras with him. Otherwise, when Lucroy comes back I'd send MM back down to AAA to continue getting regular AB's and keep Kottaras with the big league club. Wolf may also be a decent possibility for a waiver trade in August for some contending team that suffers pitching issues and is just looking for a healthy arm with a track record.

[chad25]

No one has mentioned it but I wonder if we could possibly trade wolf and kottaras to the nationals. since they are going to need a pitcher when they shut down Strasburg eventually and they could use a catcher with some pop in his bat who's a lefty. they have plenty of talented arms in the minors we could get back in return, although im sure we cant get top talent, we could still get a guy like Daniel Rosenbaum and maybe one of their lefty's in the MLB bullpen..... this might be too wishful of thinking though.