Dodgers interested in Aramis Ramirez

[zzzmanwitz]

Again, whether its Ramirez, Green, Ransom, Olt, or David Wright playing 3B for the Brewers next year, this team isn't making the playoffs. They need to restructure and rebuild. No reason to pay a veteran to play while going through that process. If someone would take over that contract for us, it would be fantastic.

 

I REITERATE! I am not unhappy with Ramirez, he has been very good and I think he is a good value for the Brewers, but we just aren't in a win now mode, which is why I want to trade him.

[TURBO]

So if we trade him, just to trade him and lose the contract, where exactly will that money go?

 

Some over the hill vet?

 

You take every decent guy we have, you think there will be any fan support? Who is going to buy tickets?

 

I understand what you guys are saying, but unless we are offered a very good package for Ramirez, I'm not interested in selling to dump his contract when we have no idea what stupid crap will be pulled with that money.

[TooLiveBrew]

So if we trade him, just to trade him and lose the contract, where exactly will that money go?

 

Some over the hill vet?

 

I would appropriate that kind of money for future signings in the draft & international FA market.

[zzzmanwitz]

Yeah, you don't have to spend the money. You see what you have in Green and save it for down the road. Mark A has said we cannot sustain a $100M payroll year in and year out, but we can do $80M some years and $100M other years.

 

This team still has Braun, Gallardo, Lucroy, Hart, Axford, Weeks (maybe), and you can start to add guys like Fiers, Thornburg, and Peralta to the list. There are still plenty of players for John Q. Public to come watch.

[TURBO]

So if we trade him, just to trade him and lose the contract, where exactly will that money go?

 

Some over the hill vet?

 

I would appropriate that kind of money for future signings in the draft & international FA market.

 

YOU would, but what would Melvin do?

 

My fear is that he shells out 5 million to someone for no good reason. I can't say that he would, but no one can say he wouldn't either.

[TURBO]

Yeah, you don't have to spend the money. You see what you have in Green and save it for down the road. Mark A has said we cannot sustain a $100M payroll year in and year out, but we can do $80M some years and $100M other years.

 

This team still has Braun, Gallardo, Lucroy, Hart, Axford, Weeks (maybe), and you can start to add guys like Fiers, Thornburg, and Peralta to the list. There are still plenty of players for John Q. Public to come watch.

 

I think that dumping his contarct would only make us spend big money on someone who has no business on a rebuilding team as a replacement.

 

Seeing what we have in Green could have been done this year, but we opted to hold him back on the bench. I have no faith that the situation would be any different next year.

 

Take away the offense, and the fans will stop coming. Baseball is an offensive game for the average fan.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yeah, you don't have to spend the money. You see what you have in Green and save it for down the road. Mark A has said we cannot sustain a $100M payroll year in and year out, but we can do $80M some years and $100M other years.

 

This team still has Braun, Gallardo, Lucroy, Hart, Axford, Weeks (maybe), and you can start to add guys like Fiers, Thornburg, and Peralta to the list. There are still plenty of players for John Q. Public to come watch.

I would love to see the Brewers rebuild themselves into a development-first organization & operate from year-to-year around the $80M mark. That way, if/when it comes time to make a deadline (or other kind of) acquisition, you can stretch the payroll beyond $80M & still be in comfortable territory.

 

But, like turborickey alluded to, that all may just be a pipe dream with Attanasio & Melvin at the helm.

 

Take away the offense, and the fans will stop coming. Baseball is an offensive game for the average fan.

Well fortunately (like Zach pointed out), the Brewers will still have good offensive talent even without Ramirez.

[gregmag]

turbo,

 

I do not want to get rid of Ramirez because I think we would be a better team without him, I just don't see the Brewers being a competitive team in the next 2-3 years with him on the team, so what is the point of paying him? If we can get any sort of prospects and save the money, that is a win for the Brewers.

 

Also, it is way too early to write off Taylor Green at this point. Give him a chance to have some significant playing time in the majors before you say he can't play.

 

I never said Green couldn't play, I have been saying alls eason that he needs more playing time to see what we have. Odds are, if we move Ramirez, we'll play some kind of a platoon at 3B, or play some over the hill FA guy that serves no purpose. It feels like the brewers are not very committed to Green, so to think he would start the season as our 3B seems like something this team won't be willing to do.

You may be right that the team wouldn't give Green a real shot, but I'm not so sure. The team is just (apparently) entering a rebuilding phase, and we have reason to hope that the shift from immediate contention to aggressive rebuilding will lead the team to give young marginal prospects more PT. Plus, RR has now seen unheralded rookies succeed (Fiers, Maldonado, Aoki though I understand he's a bit different), so maybe he'll become more willing to risk more PT on younger players. Or (Can of Worms Alert!) maybe, given that this year's team has failed despite considerable talent on the roster, he won't be around a whole lot longer to play guys like Izturis and Ishikawa.

 

On the big question, I'm all the way down with cutting bait on Ramirez. I think the signing made sense when we did it, but we can be pretty sure now that he won't be part of the next contending Brewers team. A lot can change in a few months, and it has.

[endaround]

Isn't the logical destination for Ramirez Pittsburgh?

[narwhalattack]

Isn't the logical destination for Ramirez Pittsburgh?

 

I would think that Hart would bring a better return from the Pirates, but of course Melvin is extremely reluctant to trade him.

 

Ramirez to Pittsburgh isn't a bad idea, though. He's been doing pretty well for a guy on the wrong side of 30. Wonder if Ramirez + Kottaras + Loe would net them Marte and Heredia, or maybe even Ramirez + Hart... Most likely it's a stretch, but a guy can dream!

[PrinceEatMeat]

I think the logical destination for Ramirez is now San Fran. That's a perfect park for RH pull hitters, and they just lost Sandoval.

[fondybrewfan]

Marte just got called up by the Bucs. I think they are hoping he provides the offensive boost they need rather than them having to go trade for a bat

[GAME05]

i'm fine with trading ARam mostly because older veterans almost always decrease in value/ability, yet his contract is increasing in cost.

[slappzilla]

turbo,

 

I do not want to get rid of Ramirez because I think we would be a better team without him, I just don't see the Brewers being a competitive team in the next 2-3 years with him on the team, so what is the point of paying him? If we can get any sort of prospects and save the money, that is a win for the Brewers.

 

Also, it is way too early to write off Taylor Green at this point. Give him a chance to have some significant playing time in the majors before you say he can't play.

^ this

 

Green for awhile was the brewers best hitter in Nashville, stats wise. He's still never got everyday AB's in the bigs.

 

Trade A-Ram so the Brewers don't have to pay the heavily back-end load of the contract, try Green out at 3B for the rest of the season. If Green doesn't pan out, then the Brewers have the money to sign a 3B in the offseason.

[endaround]

There are no 3B to sign in the offseason. The position player FA market is terrible.

[slappzilla]

Then they can trade or bring someone up or something. I highly doubt it will be an unfillable hole.

 

Move someone from another position to 3B even.

[jjfanec]

There are no 3B to sign in the offseason. The position player FA market is terrible.

 

If that is true, I say we try to trade Ramirez in the off-season. Let everyone in on getting him. He is 5th in all MLB for OPS for SS so I think he would have some value for a team set up to win the next year

[slappzilla]

There are no 3B to sign in the offseason. The position player FA market is terrible.

I actually went and looked this up.

FA 3B in 2013

 

David Wright

Kevin Youkliss

Mark Reynolds

Placido Polanco

Scott Rolen

Ty Wiggington

Brandon Inge

 

It is a short list, fwiw.

 

Wright will take huge $$$.

Youk is towards the backend of his career, but id take him if the price was right. He'd mash at miller park.

Reynolds can hit 40HR's if you don't mind dealing with his 220 strike outs and his 220avg

the rest are meh

 

Wiggington can play all infield positions sans SS and has pop. I think he'd come cheap as well. I'd take him.

[GoToHelfaer]

It's always interesting to hear that the Brewers couldn't sustain a $100 million payroll when they have a $100 million offer for Greinke on the table. If Greinke would have taken the offer, an $80 million payroll would be out of the question and a $90 million would be very, very tough. Greinke at $20 million per would have the Brewers on the hook for $66.25 million for 6 players in 2013 (Greinke, Braun, Gallardo, Weeks, Hart, Ramirez). Hart would be off of the books after 2013 but the rest would receive raises in 2014. Can't fill 19 other roster spots with $13.75 million to have an $80 million payroll.

 

Attanasio plays his finances close to the vest. The Brewers obviously could afford more than you think.

[slappzilla]

or it was a PR move and they knew he wouldn't bite, much like the CC and Prince offers.

 

but either way (and I think you said it yourself), the Brewers could have signed Greinke to that offer and still kept the payroll between $85-$90M.

 

They're not a $100M payroll team. Not yet. Need one of those super TV deals like the Angels got.

 

Devil's advocate - let's say they are capable of a $100M payroll...is it worth hitting the $100M mark even though you know they more than likely won't be contending next year? No, it's not.

[Invader3K]

I really don't get what is so horrible about trying Taylor Green at 3B for the rest of the season. If it ends up being that he can't handle the position, so what? The team is in the tank, so the plan should be to try and see what younger guys can stick for next season.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I really don't get what is so horrible about trying Taylor Green at 3B for the rest of the season. If it ends up being that he can't handle the position, so what? The team is in the tank, so the plan should be to try and see what younger guys can stick for next season.

 

Yep, exactly. They also should trade Morgan and give Schafer playing time in CF. It makes sense to see what guys can do in a lost season. Would be great to see Green play as well.

[slappzilla]

I agree about trading Morgan as well.

 

Give Green and Schafer regular AB's rest of season and let them sink or swim. It will help a lot as far as knowing what we have and what we need for next year.

[reillymcshane]

What about Oakland as a destination for A-Ram. Their 3rd basemen this year have an OPS of .563.

 

Don't know the Oakland farm system at all, so I don't know who we could target.

[slappzilla]

Oakland isn't a "take on money" type of organization, so to say.