Dodgers interested in Aramis Ramirez

[TooLiveBrew]

This isn't about who has the biggest hat, it's about who has the most cattle. You don't get the most cattle by killing off the calves to make a bigger hat or by selling off all the cows to buy one big bull.

 

I'm not sure if that is an incredibly stupid saying or incredibly genius. I tip my large, calf-free, hat to you.

 

(to both)

[Kelbysdaddy]

apparently the dodgers and cubs are working on a deal that will send garza to la and a package including zack lee to chicago.

[monty57]

apparently the dodgers and cubs are working on a deal that will send garza to la and a package including zack lee to chicago.

 

Which means that if Melvin wants to get the Dodgers' top prospect back in return for Ramirez, he had better be on the phone with the Dodgers right now. I know the Dodgers are inquiring about pitching, but they need offensive help more than they need pitching help. It would be a tough decision for them between trading Lee for Garza or Ramirez.

 

If we can't land Lee, then we'd better get at least two of their top remaining guys - maybe Eovaldi and Allen Webster? They don't have that strong of a system, so if Lee goes to the Cubs, Melvin may have missed out on a good opportunity to get out of the $30MM owed Ramirez while picking up someone who is projected to be a really good young pitcher.

[slappzilla]

Top prospect for Aramis? seriously?

 

If Melvin just gets someone to take that contract it's a win.

[Hate those Rodents]

Aramis has value. Many teams would absorb his salary. Fact is, he has value too as one of the top third baseman this year and a proven past.

[torts]

Top prospect for Aramis? seriously?

 

If Melvin just gets someone to take that contract it's a win.

 

well he's not a rental player, they have control and MLB proven production and a decent defensive 3B player. so yeah, i'd say to get a player like Aram, you'd have to be willing to part with a top prospect of sorts

[Oldcity]

I'm in the group who would throw a party if they just got someone to take that contract, much less actually got something of value back.

[slappzilla]

What Aramis is set to make going forward...

 

2013:$10M

2014:$16M

2015: mutual option ($4M buyout)

 

plus the Brewers are paying him $2M in 2015 and 2016 to meet the $36M mark he signed for (they delegated the salary out like that to stay competitive)

[PrinceEatMeat]

My hope is that Melvin is able to land Olt from the Rangers for Greinke, so he then decides to pull the trigger on a Ramirez trade. Although he could still have value this offseason and possibly next year, but I think the time is now to shed that deal. That deal will be absolutely horrible beyond 2013. He's incredibly expendable with a legit replacement like Olt on board.

[reillymcshane]

I think the Brewers would have to put in $6 million or so for A-Ram's salary in 2014. They are only paying him $6 million this year, and 2013 could be a year to save money if we go on a selling binge.

[cvollbrecht]

I know that it shouldn't matter, but I think the fact that he has a bobblehead day coming up in August will be a factor in the team trading him. It may be a little silly to think that, but Mark and Doug are not the types to throw up the white flag on a season and a lot of people will see it that way if they trade Greinke and ARam. So while it may be a smart baseball move, they may not see it as a smart business move.

[monty57]

Mark and Doug are not the types to throw up the white flag on a season and a lot of people will see it that way if they trade Greinke and ARam.

 

I would guess that even the most thick-headed of fans will see that our trading Greinke means our chances for the playoffs this season are pretty much gone... even if they couldn't see it by simply looking at the standings.

 

I agree that trading Ramirez and/or Hart would need to be explained to the fans. Not because of this season, but because they're signed beyond this year. If we were to trade either/both of them for prospects, the trade would have to be spun to the fans that we just got "a group that could become the next Fielder, Weeks, etc." The Brewers would need to hype up how exciting the new, younger Brewers team will be.

[zzzmanwitz]

Regardless of who they do end up trading, this team will still be marketed around Braun, Gallardo, Lucroy, and now possibly Fiers. Sure, they could market around Hart if they kept him as well, but I don't think trading Ramirez would do much to how fans view this team. Short term hit, maybe, but by next year it will have left most people's minds.

 

The other thing to think about with AmRam is that he is the type of player who would probably make it through waivers (especially if the Brewers were able to pick up a stud 3B for Greinke). His trade deadline may not be July 31st.

[PrinceEatMeat]

JIM BOWDEN ‏@JimBowdenESPNxm

Brewers would love to be able to turn Aramis Ramirez into Zach Lee of Dodgers then turn Greinke into Mike Olt of the Rangers but unlikely

 

I think many of us have speculated this, and apparently Bowden is thinking the same way.

[monty57]

Regardless of who they do end up trading, this team will still be marketed around Braun, Gallardo, Lucroy, and now possibly Fiers. Sure, they could market around Hart if they kept him as well, but I don't think trading Ramirez would do much to how fans view this team. Short term hit, maybe, but by next year it will have left most people's minds.

 

The other thing to think about with AmRam is that he is the type of player who would probably make it through waivers (especially if the Brewers were able to pick up a stud 3B for Greinke). His trade deadline may not be July 31st.

 

Good points on both parts.

 

1) I think that after this disappointing season, season ticket sales will be down next year. The conventional wisdom is that we need to sign Greinke, or make another big money deal to draw fans' interest. I think that Brewer fans will see the value and excitement of bringing in a top prospect. Attendance orginally started going up in anticipation of Fielder/Weeks, etc graduating to the MLB level, and I think the best way right now to help 2013 attendance is to bring in exciting young players.

 

2) The question to me on Ramirez is whether any team other than the Dodgers would be willing to pay his salary and give us talent in return. They're trying to prove they're "players," so they may be a unique situation. If we wait, their top prospect (Zach Lee) and maybe others could be gone. My other hope is that there is a chance Baltimore could be another who wants to make a splash, and is in need of a corner IF.

[TheCrew07]

Someone posted the details earlier on that 3rd year for Ramirez saying most of it was deferred. Has anyone else come across that breakdown anywhere else?

 

I understand that deferring money is good value for the team because typically the dollar is worth less each successive year, but I just hate to be being paying players that are no longer part of the organization. I'm not sure why I dislike the concept exactly considering it's good business, I just don't like the idea of being on the hook to players who are no longer part of the organization for some reason.

 

Regardless, if the deferred money angle is true, then the Brewers would have more payroll flexibility in 2014 than it appears looking at that $16M.

[ninja33]

Someone posted the details earlier on that 3rd year for Ramirez saying most of it was deferred. Has anyone else come across that breakdown anywhere else?

 

I understand that deferring money is good value for the team because typically the dollar is worth less each successive year, but I just hate to be being paying players that are no longer part of the organization. I'm not sure why I dislike the concept exactly considering it's good business, I just don't like the idea of being on the hook to players who are no longer part of the organization for some reason.

 

Regardless, if the deferred money angle is true, then the Brewers would have more payroll flexibility in 2014 than it appears looking at that $16M.

 

the deferred money is for his 2014 salary. So he is owed $16M in 2014, he will receive $10M in 2014 and the other $6M later on (don't know the exact years). So yes, if Ramirez is still a Brewer in 2014 only $10M will be part of that years payroll (same as in 2013) so there is more payroll flexibility. But after that they will still owe him $10M (deferred money plus $4M buyout).

 

3 years/$36M (2012-14), plus 2015 mutual option

signed by Milwaukee as a free agent 12/13/11

12:$6M, 13:$10M, 14:$16M, 15: mutual option ($4M buyout)

$6M in salary deferred in 2014

[monty57]

I'm not sure why I dislike the concept exactly considering it's good business

 

Some players get interest on the deferred amount, which makes it more like buying the player with a credit card. Not sure if that's how Ramirez's contract is written. Just like any other line of credit (with or without interest), it can be a useful tool, but can also get you in trouble. Do too many of them, and you'll have a hard time paying for the guys who are actually still playing for you.

 

I think Melvin uses the "team option with buyout" as deferred payment in many cases. He adds the option year to get players to sign, but it allows the Brewers to defer part of their payment out another season. Has there ever been a "team option with buyout" under Melvin in which the team actually exercised the option and kept the player?

[AZBrewCrew]

The Dbacks just DFA'd Ryan Roberts. He could probably be had on the cheap for a stopgap at 3B if Ramirez goes.

[PrinceEatMeat]

The Dbacks just DFA'd Ryan Roberts. He could probably be had on the cheap for a stopgap at 3B if Ramirez goes.

 

Would rather just play Green.

[brettac1]

The Dbacks just DFA'd Ryan Roberts. He could probably be had on the cheap for a stopgap at 3B if Ramirez goes.

 

Would rather just play Green.

I agree. Roberts has a bunch of prison tattoos, though!

[JosephC]

Someone posted the details earlier on that 3rd year for Ramirez saying most of it was deferred. Has anyone else come across that breakdown anywhere else?

 

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7351782/2011-free-agency-aramis-ramirez-chicago-cubs-signs-milwaukee-brewers

 

Ramirez gets $6 million next year, $10 million in 2013 and $16 million in 2014, of which $6 million is deferred. There is a $14 million mutual option for 2015 with a $4 million buyout.

 

The deferred money from 2014 is due in two $3 million payments on Dec. 15 in 2017 and 2018. If the 2015 buyout money is paid, it would be owed in two $2 million payments on Dec. 15 in 2015 and 2016.

[BrewersSuperCollector]

Aramis will not be traded unless he wants to be. One of the reasons he signed with the Brewers is to be closer to home. Again, the Brewers would not trade him unless he wants to be or its the end of year 3.

[MNBrew]

TB just traded for Ryan Roberts.

 

Never cared for the guy, his game, or his tattoo fetish.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/07/rays-acquire-ryan-roberts-from-diamondbacks.html

[jjfanec]

Aramis will not be traded unless he wants to be. One of the reasons he signed with the Brewers is to be closer to home. Again, the Brewers would not trade him unless he wants to be or its the end of year 3.

 

Or if he wants to win. We were two games from the WS last year so I am guessing that had something to do with it. So he might be willing to get traded to a contender