Dodgers interested in Aramis Ramirez

[JosephC]

Add me to the list of people that would love to see the Ramirez contract dumped. But I'm biased, didn't like the move in the first place. Figured the ~.900 OPS seasons probably ended in 2009 and we were unlikely to see anything like that again. The .746 OPS in 2010 was probably an anomaly...let's throw that one out. The OPS of .871 in 2011 and an OPS of .821 in 2012 looks like a downward trend. I thought the 6 million dollar payday for this season would be a bargain for the Brewers but those next couple of years look bad. Ramirez certainly is no athlete and hasn't been real durable, so it's not hard to see him slipping to being a sub-.800 OPS player in 2013 and beyond. While the Yankees could easily afford to put a 10 million dollar ~.780 OPS player on the field...that would be a really bad investment for the Brewers. Especially a player like Ramirez who is all bat and nothing else, as both his defense and his baserunning are huge negatives.

 

Let's just say if I was in Melvin's chair the Dodgers wouldn't have to make much of an offer to convince me to move Ramirez as long as they picked up the entire remainder of his contract.

[TURBO]

I disagree that Ramirez is a negative defensively. He is serviceable to say the least. To be honest, I think his defense has been far better than I expected when we signed him.

[dlk9s]

I'd be curious to see what they would want to part with Dee Gordon. He seems to be a perfect fit for what RR would want at the top or bottom of the order.

 

Dee Gordon is terrible.

[milwaukeesportsfan]

I actually don't hate Aramis Ramirez as much as I thought I would. He's been big for us lately, especially on defense.

[monty57]

When the Carlos Lee deal fell through, this was the first thing I thought of. They have Uribe at 3B and he's been terrible. Money isn't an object right now for the Dodgers, and they were willing to give up Z. Lee and Gould for Jed Lowrie, so I could see a similar deal for Ramirez. If we could get Lee or Eovaldi plus Gould, and rid ourselves of the Ramirez contract, I think we should do it. If we could also trade Greinke to Texas in a deal centered around Olt, all the better.

[Raw Biz]

When the Carlos Lee deal fell through, this was the first thing I thought of. They have Uribe at 3B and he's been terrible. Money isn't an object right now for the Dodgers, and they were willing to give up Z. Lee and Gould for Jed Lowrie, so I could see a similar deal for Ramirez. If we could get Lee or Eovaldi plus Gould, and rid ourselves of the Ramirez contract, I think we should do it. If we could also trade Greinke to Texas in a deal centered around Olt, all the better.

 

ARam for Lee & Gould.

Greinke for Olt & Odor.

 

Done. Thank you.

[PrinceEatMeat]

When the Carlos Lee deal fell through, this was the first thing I thought of. They have Uribe at 3B and he's been terrible. Money isn't an object right now for the Dodgers, and they were willing to give up Z. Lee and Gould for Jed Lowrie, so I could see a similar deal for Ramirez. If we could get Lee or Eovaldi plus Gould, and rid ourselves of the Ramirez contract, I think we should do it. If we could also trade Greinke to Texas in a deal centered around Olt, all the better.

 

ARam for Lee & Gould.

Greinke for Olt & Odor.

 

Done. Thank you.

 

Yes, please. I'd be all over that.

[igor67]

I think it pays to be cautious and assume the .900 OPS days are gone for Ramirez. However given his historic tendency to start slow I think it is also fair to say that his season OPS will probably be higher than .821 as well. This is an arguable point, but what is not arguable is that an .821 OPS is currently good for 5th among all 3rd basemen qualifiers in OPS. Number 6 on the list is the only other guy with an OPS over .800! If you relax the standard to anyone over 100 ABs he is still 10th on a list 3 times as long. We have a premium talent if older talent and the expected return needs to be premium talent. With a healthy Either and Kemp next year as well Ramirez's bat is probably enough to push the Dodgers into a top 1/3 offense in the NL. Green could have easily out played Casey last year and would have been an upgrade over that this year. Ramirez however was an even bigger upgrade. I was all for the Green and use the money elsewhere option, but at this point money on our side doesn't seem to be the issue holding back a Greinke extension, and given the inflation we are seeing in contracts because of increased TV money, I have serious doubts that freeing up that modest amount of money to Aramis will let us go out and sign other premium talents. That's where the focus needs to be getting premium talents. Our farm system seems plenty capable of providing guys to plug in, but contention is built on having enough guys who are well above average.

[JohnBriggs12]

I tend to agree with igor67. Brewers have the money to sign Greinke, it's coming to an agreement on his value. If he leaves and signs elsewhere, they'll look at other FA. Would dumping Ramirez' salary be enough to get in bidding for Josh Hamilton?

Probably only if they also dumped Weeks'. Then you'd have to hope that with a Green at 3B and a fill in until Gennett is ready at 2B, it would be enough to fill in around a Braun/Hamilton/Lucroy/Hart middle of the order. It just might be.

[Roderick]

I actually don't hate Aramis Ramirez as much as I thought I would. He's been big for us lately, especially on defense.

I don't hate ARam, but is he going to earn the $30M he will be paid after this year? Seems to me if we can package him and Wolf together I wouldn't care if we got a used bag of balls back to shed those dollars (but if got back Hairston it would be nice).

 

As for a no-trade clause, if he does have one, it may not be for all teams or he may waive it for the Dodgers and a chance for the playoffs.

[Invader3K]

A-Ram should be worth more than a "bag of balls" at this point. I'm not saying the Brewers should expect to get a top flight prospect for him, but maybe a solid minor league pitcher with some upside or something along those lines. He has been about as good as can be reasonably expected so far this season. .821 OPS, 52 RBI, 10 HR, etc. The Dodgers might not be the only team where he'd be a good fit, either.

[Oldcity]

With his contract, he won't be worth much more than a bag of balls. The Dodgers were willing to give those prospects for Lee because Houston was kicking money for most of his contract. If the Brewers don't send any money, they likely wouldn't get much at all in terms of prospects for Ramirez. That's okay with me though.

[jmeks23]

I would probably do a Ramirez for Hairston or something along those lines. They'd probably want Hairston though considering if they had ARam then they could actually use Hairston as an utility IF which is what he is. However, I'd only trade him if you get Castellanos or Olt. Green might have a okay future ahead of him, but not worth giving up Aram for.

[chuckiehacks]

I will echo others here and say I'd be thrilled if the Brewers got out from under the Aramis contract

 

It almost sounds too good to be true. Really? Would the Dodgers be that stupid and would Melvin & Mark A actually be smart enough to do it?

 

The problem is that there is no way that MA & DM view the Ramirez contract as bad. They obviously thought he was worth it 8 months ago, and he hasn't performed worse than expectations (slow start, heat up in summer, decent defense, healthy).

 

I think they'd have to be blown away to trade him.

[Warning Track Power]

I'd be curious to see what they would want to part with Dee Gordon. He seems to be a perfect fit for what RR would want at the top or bottom of the order.

 

Dee Gordon is terrible.

 

Disagree. He is only 24 and this is his first full year in the bigs. He hit, walked and stole bases in the minors. Maybe he is the next Carlos Gomez type prospect but considering the Brewers have no SS prospects and can get out from under Ramirez' contract at the same time, I would gladly take a package of Gordon and say Eovaldi for Ramirez and K-Rod.

[jerichoholicninja]

I like how the small market mentality has now convinced some posters here that a player being paid what he is worth and performing at that level is now overpaid and an albatross contract.

[rickh150]

Attanasio and Melvin always have to have one eye on the gate. They can't do what some of us would like and tear a mediocre team down for prospects that might be good. If we could get 3 million fans regardless of the team on the field, that would be different.

 

ARam's contract isn't that bad if he can continue to hit .270/.340 with extra base power, plus staying healthy. There is no need to trade him.....yet.

[Oldcity]

Right, but it's unlikely that he stays healthy for the duration of his contract and/or keeps up his current level of production. He's paid fairly this year, but who here wants to pay him 16M in 2014? By that time he'll need to move to first, and then we'll have our very own version of the current Carlos Lee.

 

Trade him now, while he still has solid value at this time, and a team may actually bite. That would be a proactive move, but that isn't Melvin's MO. He rarely trades a player when his value is at its highest.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Brewers would not look good if they traded ARAM, it would cause FA's in the future to think twice or even eliminate us or force us to use no trade clauses. I don't think I can recall when a player has signed a multi-year FA contract, changed teams and then was traded mid-year the 1st year.

[RockCoCougars]

Didn't Ramirez basically block a trade to the Angels last summer? I really don't see the point of moving Ramirez just to slash salary, unless it is to free up cash for an immediate Greinke deal.

 

Many seem to want to salary dump, but then what do you do with that money? Do you want the Attanasio family to buy a new mansion or yacht, along with perhaps a new sound system at Miller Park? I'm still not convinced that Milwaukee is a haven for free agents. The Brewers are never going to be able to pay enough to get the big boys, so they will have to overpay for the SuppanWolf free agents of the world, the guys that none of the big markets really want.... or trade for guys like Greinke, but they don't have the ammo anymore.

[Roderick]

I will echo others here and say I'd be thrilled if the Brewers got out from under the Aramis contract

 

It almost sounds too good to be true. Really? Would the Dodgers be that stupid and would Melvin & Mark A actually be smart enough to do it?

 

The problem is that there is no way that MA & DM view the Ramirez contract as bad. They obviously thought he was worth it 8 months ago, and he hasn't performed worse than expectations (slow start, heat up in summer, decent defense, healthy).

 

I think they'd have to be blown away to trade him.

 

The contract is okay when viewed in total. But the way it is structured with steep escalators would be the reason to just dump it. He is really cheap this year - not so for the next two years. So we would be trading him after using up 60% of the "cheap" year.

 

I agree that ARam has some value, especially to a team desperate enough. But I would rather package that value with Wolf's negative value, not pay any of their salary/buyout and get nothing back in return if the Dodgers don't have any prospect of corresponding value (if we pick up some salary). Let Melvin bank that money and use it for next season.

[monty57]

Brewers would not look good if they traded ARAM, it would cause FA's in the future to think twice or even eliminate us or force us to use no trade clauses. I don't think I can recall when a player has signed a multi-year FA contract, changed teams and then was traded mid-year the 1st year.

 

Since they'd be trading him to a playoff contender, it could be viewed either way. Some players would rather get traded to a team that looks like it could compete for the next few years rather than getting stuck on a team which looks like it could be out of the running for the next few years. When he signed with the Brewers, he probably thought they were front-runners for the playoffs this year.

[monty57]

I like how the small market mentality has now convinced some posters here that a player being paid what he is worth and performing at that level is now overpaid and an albatross contract.

 

When averaged out over three years, he may be paid "what he's worth." However, after this season he will be owed $30MM for two years, which is probably more than he's worth.

 

Also, the Brewers are only able to pay a few good players "what they're worth," and they need to fill a lot of their roster with good players playing for below "what they're worth." We don't currently have enough good pre-arby players, and arguably have too many guys playing for "what they're worth." If we could swap Ramirez for a couple of good, pre-arby guys we could help rectify that.

[slappzilla]

Ramirez was added this year to compete with Greinke and Marcum still under contract. Through no fault of his own the Brewers are not competing this year. If we can unload him and his contract, you have to do it, no matter what the return really.

^ this right here sums it up the best I think.

 

The Brewers arguably overpaid for Aramis when they assumed Braun would miss 50 games, and due to the fact that this year they knew they had Greinke/Marcum/KRod back. The $96M payroll was a way of the Brewers saying they were going for it this year.

 

If any team is willing to just take Aramis for his contract, you have to do it. His contract is back-end loaded and at 37 you can argue how much is left in the tank. He has picked it up as of late, no doubt, but it makes the team better for the next couple of years if they are able to shed Aramis.

[TooLiveBrew]

Ramirez is 34, fwiw