Dodgers interested in Aramis Ramirez

[theavrock]

Krod was always doing things with smoke and mirrors since he signed with the Mets. I understand what you're saying about trading a guy whose value is high, but I don't think the Krod comparison is a good one.

 

Aram on the other hand has had an OPS well over .800 for 9 out of the last 10 years. Even when you factor in 2010 (which is an obvious outlier) he is a consistent middle of the order bat. $10 million a year is not out of line for a guy who has consistently produced like him.

 

If they get a good offer, by all means. But I see no reason that Aram won't continue to produce at the level he has.

[RockCoCougars]

The other problem with trading a guy like Ramirez right now is that you are limited to teams in contention, and they don't want to part with any meaningful MLB pieces (or, as we've seen, any meaningful prospects). In the off season, everyone sits at the table. You may find a big market team who just missed the playoffs who is thin at third base perceiving themselves as missing a 'big bat'. A team like this may give some value for Ramirez. Right now, you have a handful of teams looking for that quick fix, and they are picking up multiple pieces while flipping middling prospects.

[Oldcity]

And the benefit of trading him now would be you have teams who are desperate to make the playoffs and might overpay. It works both ways.

[TooLiveBrew]

I've heard nothing about Ramirez getting moved today... so you're telling me there's a chance!

[ninja33]

And the benefit of trading him now would be you have teams who are desperate to make the playoffs and might overpay. It works both ways.

 

Right. But if you're not getting a desperate offer from a team (and I have no idea what, if anything, has been discussed by the Brewers FO) then there's no deal to be made. If a team does that, by all means take the offer....but they don't NEED to trade him just to dump the salary. If the best offer isn't anything different than could be had in the offseason, there's no point.

[paul253]

In the off season, everyone sits at the table. You may find a big market team who just missed the playoffs who is thin at third base perceiving themselves as missing a 'big bat'. A team like this may give some value for Ramirez. Right now, you have a handful of teams looking for that quick fix, and they are picking up multiple pieces while flipping middling prospects.

I have never really like this argument because I don't think it's true. First of all, I don't think everyone is in play in the offseason like that thinking suggests. For instance, I'm pretty sure the Cubs and the Astros wouldn't be in play during the offseason. I doubt the Royals or the Rays would be either. The argument is that only certain teams are interested in him during the season because they are still in playoff contention but the fact is only certain is will be interested in him during the offseason as well.

 

Another reason I don't like it is because of this. Let's say a team wants a third basemen. In the offseason they may look to the Brewers to acquire Ramirez but if they don't like what Milwaukee is asking for there is another option. Free agency. There is no free agency (at least nobody worth while) during the season. If a team wants an upgrade it HAS to be via trade.

 

Finally, there may be teams in play during the season that are not in play during the offseason. Teams like Pittsburgh and Baltimore, for instance. Now I don't know if they would want him or not, but they are both performing much better than expected and may be more willing or more desperate to deal during the season than they would be in the offseason when they feel as though their own option is good enough. Obviously you are not going to get major league talent during the season because no team would give up a contributor during the playoff run, but if Milwaukee is trading ARam they are basically saying we don't think we can compete in 2013 and a prospect will be a good enough return.

 

If we are looking to move Ramirez I'm not sure you are going to get significantly more during the offseason than you will now.

[RockCoCougars]

I have never really like this argument because I don't think it's true. First of all, I don't think everyone is in play in the offseason like that thinking suggests. For instance, I'm pretty sure the Cubs and the Astros wouldn't be in play during the offseason. I doubt the Royals or the Rays would be either. The argument is that only certain teams are interested in him during the season because they are still in playoff contention but the fact is only certain is will be interested in him during the offseason as well.

 

This is true, but at the deadline, you are not only dealing with a limited number of teams, you are limiting the options that you can get back from them. It would be tough to get them to include any contributing piece from their MLB roster. This may be fine for a team dumping salary/pending free agents, or in a full fledged rebuild, but I don't see that as being the case with the Brewers right now.

[monty57]

Only contending teams trade for rentals. Ramirez is not a rental. He's signed for two more years, so it's not only contending teams that would trade for him right now.

 

I don't know whether you'd get a better return by trading him now or in the offseason. The first question that needs to be answered is whether Melvin is seriously considering trading him. I'm happy the Brewers finally decided we could trade someone, and we got a lot of future potential for a handful of Greinke starts. I'm less convinced that Melvin/Attanasio have completely jumped onboard the "go young and play for 2014" bandwagon.

 

Hart makes loads of sense to trade because he's got a lot of value and is gone after next season unless we want to sign him to an expensive deal through his mid-30's. Ramirez makes loads of sense to trade because he's owed $30MM for two more years of service and his inept bat through the start of the season is a big reason his team is normally looking to sell around the time his bat heats up. If the trade value of 0.5 years of Greinke = 1.5 years of Hart = 2.5 years of Ramirez, just think how stocked the upper levels of our farm could get really quickly, and think how quickly we could turn back into a playoff contender.

 

If we decided to go young and play for 2014, Hart and Ramirez should both be traded. However, I think that there is a good chance that Melvin and Attanasio will hold onto both Hart and Ramirez because they feel it will appease the fanbase and make the team better in 2013, even though it will probably hurt the team in 2014 and beyond. Holding out hope that expensive, aging "hometown heroes" would rise to playoff glory is what got the Astros where they are. Signing expensive vets to bad contracts in order to "keep a window open" is what got the Cubs and now the Phillies where they are.

 

I don't want to fall into those traps any further. Trade them, bring back some exciting young players who will probably have some bumps in 2013, but will get better and give us a chance to be good for an extended period. That, to me is far better than miring ourselves in mediocrity for a few years before everything falls apart.