Mr. Hart

[paul253]

Thank goodness your not our GM, Hart for a prospect. I don't think so. The Brewers should immediately offer him a contract similar to Ramirez. This team isn't far away from contending rebuild the bullpen and get a RF and we're right back in it next year.

 

A small market team trading away an aging veteran for a cheap, high ceiling player you control for 6 years? My lord how could anyone even suggest such a thing?

 

Let's say the Brewers sign Hart to an extension and give him $12 million a year. In 2014 the Brewers would have over $60 million committed to just 5 players (Hart, Weeks, Braun, Gallardo, Ramirez). That doesn't leave them with a whole lot of wiggle room for the rest of the team.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Thank goodness your not our GM, Hart for a prospect. I don't think so. The Brewers should immediately offer him a contract similar to Ramirez. This team isn't far away from contending rebuild the bullpen and get a RF and we're right back in it next year.

[TheCrew07]

Thank goodness your not our GM, Hart for a prospect. I don't think so. The Brewers should immediately offer him a contract similar to Ramirez. This team isn't far away from contending rebuild the bullpen and get a RF and we're right back in it next year.

 

That was a well reasoned response... I love the "I'm glad you're not our GM" line, it adds so much to the discussion.

 

You want to sign Hart to backloaded market value 3 year contract with a 4th option year? So basically you want to extend him until his age 34 season and have to buy him out of the age 35 season because you're more comfortable with him? I think you're only considering about 1/4 of the total picture here, if that.

 

If you could sign healthy and peforming players in their early 30s to a 2 year contract each time I could be convinced it was good idea for certain players. However we literally have a plethora of 1B options between Nashville and Huntsville that's probably our deepest position in the organization, though admittedly that's not saying much these days. However 1 of Gamel, Halton, and Morris will be a successful MLB player, I'd even throw Khris Davis into that discussion as well.

[KCBrewerfan34]

We're NOT small market, we had a $100 million dollar payroll this year. CRIPES you guys!!!!

[logan82]

We're NOT small market, we had a $100 million dollar payroll this year. CRIPES you guys!!!!

We are one of the smallest markets in baseball. Yes we had a $100m payroll this year but we cannot sustain that.

[paul253]

We're NOT small market, we had a $100 million dollar payroll this year. CRIPES you guys!!!!

 

A payroll that Mark A. more or less said was stretched about as far as it can be. Beside, you can't just equate team payroll and market size. At the beginning of the year we had a higher payroll than the Cubs, Mets and Dodgers. That doesn't mean we are in a larger market than they are.

 

By almost all accounts we are one of the smallest markets in baseball. Continuing to sign expensive free agents and extend your veterans with multimillion dollar deals is not a sustainable course of action for teams like the Brewers.

[KCBrewerfan34]

dudes Brewers will be receiving $10 million more from ESPN contract, if we're drawing 3 million people and making the playoffs this model works IMO

[TooLiveBrew]

dudes Brewers will be receiving $10 million more from ESPN contract, if we're drawing 3 million people and making the playoffs this model works IMO

Milwaukee is the smallest market in MLB iirc. TV revenues are going waaaaay up for basically every team, and the Brewers' $10M bump or whatever it is doesn't even come close to keeping pace.

[TURBO]

Thank goodness your not our GM, Hart for a prospect. I don't think so. The Brewers should immediately offer him a contract similar to Ramirez. This team isn't far away from contending rebuild the bullpen and get a RF and we're right back in it next year.

 

Wow, that would be unecessary. You sure you want to pay Hart that kind of money? You may not want others on the board to be the GM, but if you are offering Hart that kind of money, I'm not sure you are qualified either.

[TURBO]

I'd even throw Khris Davis into that discussion as well.

 

I've seen Davis thrown into the 1B mix several times here by different posters. Does anyone know if he has ever played at 1B, or are we talking about a pipe dream here?

 

He is listed at 6' 0" tall. I have stood next to him several times, I am 5' 11". He was surely not taller than me, in fact, I think 5' 11" is his real height.

 

Hopefully, we don't have to go the short 1B route any longer (Prince), especially after seeing what a guy with some length can do over there, like Hart...

[logan82]

dudes Brewers will be receiving $10 million more from ESPN contract, if we're drawing 3 million people and making the playoffs this model works IMO

So no other teams will be receiving the same amount form ESPN?

[slappzilla]

The Brewers are still a small market team. Stop the nonsense. Doug made that clear in that Bill Michaels interview.

 

I don't claim to know Corey Hart, but i do know that he has a wife and i believe three kids. Maybe as a family unit they'd really prefer to stay in Milwaukee so long as they feel the Brewers were to give Hart a reasonable extension.

I don't know Corey Hart very well, but I do actually know his wife and kids, as I mentioned before they live in the same neighborhood as my parents and my parents live right next to the park where his wife and kids are always hanging out. My kids have played with his kids twice there, and I talked to Mrs. Hart both times. Never asked her anything intruding, just talked about the kids and the neighborhood and stuff like that, but I know she likes the neighborhood. The park they play at was just put together last year and she raves about how much fun her kids have there. I met Corey when I took my kids trick or treating there two years back and I've met him at a local restaurant. Just shook his hand and had minor convo. He comes off has a big family man. Like him and his family, but I've said this all before at nausea...

 

I still think Hart goes where the $$$ is, even after what I said above. Just sayin...

[paul253]

Does anyone know if he has ever played at 1B, or are we talking about a pipe dream here?

 

He has not played first base. I am one of the posters who has mentioned it. The thinking is that we are loaded with outfielders but Davis' bat is too good to sit. There aren't a whole lot of positions easier than first base to switch to. If for some reason Gamel and Morris don't cut it I was just thinking he'd be an option.

[fondybrewfan]

I would also prefer to keep Hart on a 3 year extension rather than trade him unless you get a prospect that is very close to the big leagues and is at an area of need. I don't think a Ramirez like extension would be that out of line. Hart is a very good player.

 

That being said; we do have some good prospects at 1st base that could step in next year (Gamel, Morris, Halton) although their performance is much more unpredictable. If some team that is desperate for offense would offer a really good pitching prospect that could play in MIL in 2013 or Mid 2014 at the latest I would at least have to consider it. But it would have to about a near can't miss prospect as there is and I don't know if anyone would give that up for a year of Hart.

[HiAndTight]

I agree with you markedman5. I just hope the Brewers make their decision based solely on the business side of things, and not the emotional side. It sounds rough to say that, but I'll feel differently as soon as I start seeing players with guaranteed contracts saying "I'm not earning the contract, so you don't need to pay me." The rules are set (and I agree with guaranteed contracts), so the Brewers have to work within those rules to do what's best for the franchise, including trading expensive guys when you can pay someone $400-500k/year to do the same job.

 

Now, Melvin may decide that extending Hart makes the most business sense, but I don't see how unless he really thinks that neither Gamel nor Morris will cut it as a major league first baseman.

 

 

Before Gamel went down, I would have been 100 pct on board with trading Hart(I'm still on board with it if it can bring back a pitcher similar to what Beltran was traded for when he went to the Giants. Wheeler IIRC.

 

But despite being unapologetic Gamel fan who believes he's a guy capable of putting up an offensive season similar to Hart, but as a LH'ed bat, seeing Hart handle 1st and the errors he's saved and the way he's really brought this infield together with his 6'6 frame, I'd be more than thrilled to sign him to 2 year extension(which his agent I'm sure has already called him about and chastised him for saying publicly) for 12 million a year.

 

You give Hunter Morris a couple more years to iron out any issues and make sure he's absolutely ready and IMO you play Gamel in RF. I think people forget about Gamel's athletic ability because he was moved to 1st, but with an improved Braun and Gomez in CF, I think Gamel could play the position well enough that his bat could carry him and give us a nice OBP guy in RF with the ability offensively of Lyle Overbay with a SLG about 30 points higher and a BA about 10(during his Brewer era).

 

I still really like this team if we can get Greinke back, and I've outlined why I think we can spend the money to do that with the massive MLB TV contracts being signed and the revenue that will bring the Brewers as well as the 189 dollar payroll luxury tax which more and more teams are up against...not to mention our own TV and radio deals which kick in and the record revenues the last couple seasons from all streams.

 

The lineup is really good, we need to take a shot on a reliever, a Carlos Marmol type perhaps, someone of that ilk and hope we got REALLY lucky in the Kottars deal and Axford bounces back. If those thing happen, I think this team could be back on course for a nice little window, especially since I don't think the NL is going to be that great in the near future, Nats notwithstanding.

[Roderick]

dudes Brewers will be receiving $10 million more from ESPN contract, if we're drawing 3 million people and making the playoffs this model works IMO

 

The model won't work for the Brewers if they sign free agent players to big, long term contracts when they have pre-arby players that should project to the same position(s).

 

If Hart had similar value and was a shortstop, yes the Brewers should have signed him to an extension yesterday. But the Brewers have some pre-arby corner OF / 1B that project to be ready for MLB in 2014. And if they all flop for some reason, ARam could/should play 1B.

[fondybrewfan]

Hunter Morris might be the Southern League MVP this year; I don't think he needs a few more years. If keeps this up in 2013; he absolutely needs a spot on the team in 2014.

[JohnBriggs12]

If it's Hart's preference to stay, then you could ask him to take a below market number with a no-trade. As has been noted not only is Morris likely to be a year (or less) away, he's also left handed, and a big lefty run producer is a need.

 

Either Hart is going to have to move back to the OF or Morris should be tried in LF with Braun moving to right.

[slappzilla]

Hunter Morris might be the Southern League MVP this year; I don't think he needs a few more years. If keeps this up in 2013; he absolutely needs a spot on the team in 2014.

Segura was MLB ready too. So was Thornburg.

 

not

[TooLiveBrew]

So was Lucroy in 2010. Not.

 

Except that Luc's directly credited that playing time with helping him develop so quickly at the MLB level.

[paul253]

Segura was MLB ready too. So was Thornburg

 

I may argue that both Thornburg and Segura were NOT ready. I'd have preferred to see Segura play out the year in Nashville. Thornburg, while good in Hunstville as well, could also have used some time in Nashville and now that he's getting it I think it makes him much more ready. Morris, unlike the other two, is likely to get at least an entire year in Nashville before he'd even be considered for a major league role.

 

As I've said many times before, this is my problem with extending Corey Hart: Mat Gamel, Nori Aoki, Khris Davis, Caleb Gindl, Hunter Morris. That's 5 guys at AA or higher who can play the two positions that Corey Hart can play, all at a fraction of cost. I really think Corey Hart could bring back a #2 or #3 ceiling pitcher if traded this offseason. I think the Brewers should consider that.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Hart said he will take a 2 year extension, his family likes it here and he doesn't have to break the bank. This should be a no brainer, too often on this board some us only look at dollars (I would love to go see the Ramirez bashers and the posts stating Taylor Green can play 3b posts)

 

Maybe its a fantasy baseball mentality but Davis, Gindl, Morris are unproven and how many rookies have flamed out, we gave Gamel a chance and he couldn't make it through a season.

 

Hopefully, the Brew find one more stick (Morris) or a producer in RF (Hart is really good at 1b). Then they can spend their money on the pitching staff, ideally they probably will have to re-build almost the whole bullpen and probably add a starter.

[paul253]

This should be a no brainer, too often on this board some us only look at dollars (I would love to go see the Ramirez bashers and the posts stating Taylor Green can play 3b posts) [smile]

 

Why should it be a no brainer? Even if he signs a 2 year extension, that would take him through the 2015 season. What do you do with Hunter Morris for the next 3 years? Let him rot away in Nashville for three years like Gamel? Bring him up and sit him on the bench like you did Taylor Green? Treating young players like that is a disaster and it's been something Milwaukee has been doing too often over the last few years because of their over reliance on expensive veterans.

 

It's easy to sit here and look at Taylor Green's stats with his one start every 3 or 4 days at a position he's never played before and say "see I told you so". But you have no idea how he would have fared playing his natural position and getting consistent at bats. I'm not suggesting he'd have been an all star or anything, or even succeeded enough to keep the position, but to sit here and act like he would have hit .125 and isn't good enough to be a major league regular is unfair.

Davis, Gindl, Morris are unproven and how many rookies have flamed out,

 

I hate to point this out, but at one time Fielder, Weeks, Braun, Lucroy, and Hart were all "unproven" too. All prospects are. How exactly do you prove yourself without actually getting a chance? Should we go out an sign two free agent pitchers this offseason because Tyler Thornburg and Wily Peralta are "unproven"? As I recall Mike Fiers was pretty unproven coming into this season. And Jean Segura certainly was.

we gave Gamel a chance and he couldn't make it through a season.

 

Give me a break. The guy tore his ACL hustling to try to catch a foul ball. You are actually going to use that against him and suggest it has something to do with his ability? He was doing fine before that. He had a little 3 game mini slump the injury which made his overall numbers look worse than they were. On April 23, he was hitting .281 with a .333 OBP and .404 slugging. That was through 17 games. Over the next 3 games he only hit 1-12 which dropped his average to .246. Then he got hurt. I have no doubt had he not been injured he could have maintained an average around .270 and OBP around .330. Corey Hart is hitting .276 with an OBP of .333. Yes he is slugging better and probably plays better defense, but he'd also be making about $12 million a year more than Gamel.

 

What I'd like to see done is this. If they don't trade Hart in the offseason, let him play out the 2013 season. If it looks like Morris has continued his improvement, or if Hart's numbers drop off, then let Hart walk away the season. If Morris struggles in AAA and Gamel and Davis struggle too, then offer Hart a one or two year extension. If Hart really wants to stay as badly as he suggests, then no need to rush a contract extension.

[jackailius]

I'm new here and haven't completely read all pages of this thread but wanted throw my .02 in. While I like Corey Hart as a player and someone who wants to stay, I think it would be in the Brewers best interest to trade him.

 

For folks who are saying keep him, what if you could package Hart with Maldanado and maybe a minor leaguer for someone like Jon Lester? Lester is signed through 2013 with a semi reasonable option (and very cheap buyout)for 2014. With Boston seeming to be doing some housekeeping this may be a mutually beneficial trade based on the brewers complete lack of anyone who can pitch and is left handed.

My thought is that we have an overabundance of both 1st basemen and outfielders and one should stick (hopefully Gamel comes back strong and if he isn't working out by mid-season Morris will hopefully be ready).

Maldanado has shown that he is going to be a starter somewhere and with Lucroy blocking him for the next several years it might be best for him and the brewers to find another destination.

I'm not positive what it would take Lester but he is having a rough year and we may be able to capitalize on that becuase his career numbers indicate better than what he is throwing out right now. Thoughts?

[Raw Biz]

I have no problem trading Hart but they should be trading for cheap, multiple-years-of-control guys, not short-term expensive guys like Lester.