Gamel's future...

[HiAndTight]

With Corey Hart playing so well at 1st base, accentuated by that play last night to end the game that I think would have been one of those Prince would have just come off the bag to try and ensure it didn't get past him, I'm liking the idea of a 6'6 1B even more, and he's looked fantastic fielding ground balls.

 

So just based on my own eye test, it appears that he's going to be a huge upgrade defensively over Prince.

 

Heck, he may alone be the guy who replaces Prince. He put up a 4.2 WAR last year missing the first chunk of the year to injury and losing points for his defense whereas this year he's looking like he might improve significantly on that defensive rating.

 

It's also beautiful to watch a 3rd basemen or a SS make a great play, make a great throw off their back foot and still have a chance as Corey's showing an amazing ability as of late to adjust to the ball and make a helluva lot longer stretch than Prince. Hart's been a guy I've been calling for to be traded for the last couple years, but now I think he's found his home.

 

So the question is, what to do with Mat Gamel? Trade him? You're not going to get much for him most likely, but we all know what he's capable of and he was showing it early on this year. He's athletic, so he's certainly capable of playing RF for the next however long we have Hart, though coming of an ACL surgery it would't be ideal, but I DO believe the Mat Gamel we saw last year is more than capable of becoming a viable RF defender. I think if he comes back with the same speed he had last year he's as fast if not faster than Hart. I actually think he's got a stronger arm from RF. Or I imagine he would. You alway s heard of about Hart's arm, but I was never impressed.

 

And I honestly believe even after everything he's gone through, he's still going to become a good big league hitter. He just has too perfect of a stroke. Obviously last year it made most sense to move Gamel to 1st as he was already familiar with playing 3rd while Hart hadn't played in the IF in years.

 

But now you've got a guy who they were sorta in between with anyway and just finally went to 1st this year. So a move to RF, while obviously not ideal for him, might be better for the Brewers. We've seen the 6'6 target and what that means for an IF as of late. Gamel needs to be in our lineup next year provided he can be at least a passable RF..which I believe he can. I just think we've been spoiled by that beanpole playing 1st over there that it'd be a bad idea to move him back next year. Make Gamel move an if he lealves after his contract runs up at 2013, then Gamel can move back.

[JohnBriggs12]

He's now in the AAAA category as far as I'm concerned. His trade value is as the secondary guy in a multiple player deal and that's my guess what will happen. Teams with very limited payroll will have interest.

 

My guess is he ends up in Oakland or Seattle (Jack Z connection).

[KCBrewerfan34]

Corey Hart's impending FA could muddy the water a bit.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I say leave Hart at 1B, and re-sign him. He's got a few good years left in him. Maybe just hold onto Gamel as a bench player in case. Maybe get him some starts at 1B, 3B, corner OF, and DH. There's really no reason Gamel should come back in and be the everyday 1B after how Hart has played there. Leaving Hart there makes it easier to upgrade the offense. Outfielders are a lot easier to come by.

[HiAndTight]

He's now in the AAAA category as far as I'm concerned. His trade value is as the secondary guy in a multiple player deal and that's my guess what will happen. Teams with very limited payroll will have interest.

 

My guess is he ends up in Oakland or Seattle (Jack Z connection).

 

 

There is no AAAA as much as people like to use. I personally find that term to be absolutely ridiculous.

 

And he's NOW a AAAA player despite getting off to a impressive start just using the eye test(as he played so few games) because of a knee injury an injury that is pretty much routine now for baseball teams? Especially for a team with almost NO viable offensive players in their farm system?

 

 

Mat Gamel's lack of big league success at this point in his career is not his fault in my opinion. He was blocked at the corners by 4 players who were either franchise players(Braun, Prince) a 2nd tier franchise type in Hart, and Casey McGehee who put up a line of .291/.346/.477/.823 with 39 HR's and 170 RBI's in 273 games with a truncated 1st season.

 

Gamel during this time is being bounced back and forth, not given a chance to play regularly, jerked around, all while putting up huge numbers in AAA and not getting a chance.

 

So I fail to see how a fluke knee injury now makes him a "AAAA," type player..which I'm not even sure what the definition of that is.

[logan82]

Put Gamel in RF full time. He has a strong arm and seems pretty athletic. Put Aoki and Gomez in CF, trade Morgan.

[HiAndTight]

I say leave Hart at 1B, and re-sign him. He's got a few good years left in him. Maybe just hold onto Gamel as a bench player in case. Maybe get him some starts at 1B, 3B, corner OF, and DH. There's really no reason Gamel should come back in and be the everyday 1B after how Hart has played there. Leaving Hart there makes it easier to upgrade the offense. Outfielders are a lot easier to come by.

 

 

Why not just put him in RF and leave it at that. Cost effective, and there's little question he can hit. The issue would obviously be his defense, but Hart wasn't very good out there, and as we all saw, Gamel was a very good athlete. I believe he said he wasn't comfortable out there, but Hart said he wasn't comfortable hitting 5th or playing 1st. It seemed to be of little consequence when the time game for both moves.

 

 

I just think with a team that has a complete lack of any type of impact offensive talent short of(no pun intended) Scooter Gennett and his level of impact is questionable obviously at this big league level, that it would make sense to try and work in a talented left handed bat into the lineup. We can all agree I think that our current CF situation looks good and should work itself out. Morgan will likely be gone. I think they keep Gomez because of his age, showing some signs of improvement, and the rest of the options are LH'ed and go with perhaps Aok and Gomez in CF, Schafer in CF but backing up RF and LF and Gamel in RF. I still believe that Gamel can give you at least a .280/.350/.450 20-25 Hr type line. With Hart, hopefully Weeks bouncing back, Gonzalez back at SS(not sure what you do here) and Aram who's still a threat at 3rd along with Lucroy behind the plate, that's a very balanced and very talented lineup IMO.

 

Again, bring back Greinke and I like that lineup enough that with Fiers, Thornburg, Estrada and Narveson working their way in behind Yo, that could WS contending team.

[paul253]

Put Gamel in RF full time. He has a strong arm and seems pretty athletic. Put Aoki and Gomez in CF, trade Morgan.

 

What about Logan Schafer? He's back up over .300 again. He needs to play next season.

 

I think for the time being Mat Gamel is going to have to settle for a bench role. Same with Taylor Green. Milwaukee just never had any interest in making room for either of them so it is what it is. Green and Gamel on the bench actually wouldn't be the end of the world. I'd rather have those two as pinch hitting/injury fill-ins than Brooks Conrad and Travis Ishikawa.

 

That being said, I'd still like to see Corey Hart traded if you can get a decent return for him. Like I've said before, I like what he's done for us but he is the kind of player Milwaukee needs to get away from. His age and his cost really hurt his value for a small market team. This of course would leave first base for Mat Gamel.

[3and2Fastball]

Taking a look at the present day Brewers I see a strong need for a low cost, plus left-handed bat off the bench who can play 1B, RF and even 3B in an emergency. Gamel at the very least fits that criteria. He's a pretty strong upgrade over Green and Ishikawa (in my opinion) at this point.

 

Unless he's part of a blockbuster trade that brings back a spectacular someone, you keep Gamel as a utility player with a chance to hit his way back into the starting lineup.

 

The Brewers would really be rolling the dice extending Hart. If they do keep Hart I like him more at 1B than RF

[DHonks]

Gomez will likely be too expensive next year, so I'd consider having Gamel in RF, Aoki in CF, Schafer as the 4th OF.

[HiAndTight]

Put Gamel in RF full time. He has a strong arm and seems pretty athletic. Put Aoki and Gomez in CF, trade Morgan.

 

 

Great minds. I'd also add bring up Schafer and get him used to playing all 3 OF spots. Gindl may figure in there, but I can't see where. I guess you could always wait and see what happens to Hart, if he's willing to sign another 3 year deal in the 10-12 million dollar range, or if he's going to want a larger contract. If I'm him I'm looking at what Ethier got, what Werth got and some other players who at best are only marginally better than him, and I don't know if he's going to re-sign for a similar contract to last years deal and I don't know if I like going 4/60 for Hart in years 32-35.

 

I think all of this needs to be considered before we just throw in Gamel into a deal. I still believe in Hart, I still believe he's one of those types who's going to come on later in his career and take off.

 

Look no further than David Freese who didn't even debut until he was 26 years old, the same age that Mat Gamel is right now due to injuries. I can't imagine the Cards are the defending WS champs without him and have a huge hole in their lineup without him.

 

Of course without Greinke this is all moot as it'd be pointless to bring back Hart in any scenario IMO and he should be on the trade market instead.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I think OF wise next year I'd prefer a Schafer/Gomez platoon in CF, and Aoki everyday in RF. Gamel can get some starts out there too if need be. Make him versatile, so he's available wherever we need him in future years.

[logan82]

Gomez will likely be too expensive next year, so I'd consider having Gamel in RF, Aoki in CF, Schafer as the 4th OF.

 

That is close to what I think. Schafer is still pretty young and I wouldn't be to upset to see him in the minors again for most of next year or at lest long enough to gain an extra year out of him. I would keep Gomez though his arby years.(next year I think) I think he is more a 4th OF than a platoon guy in my opinion. We have Aoki for next year and a relatively inexpensive option for another year. I am still more than a little unsure of what we have in him.

 

2013

RF - Gamel

CF - Gomez/Aoki/Schafer later in the year

LF - Really? If you don't know...

 

2014

RF - Gamel

CF - Aoki/Schafer

LF - Really? If you don't know...

 

or if Hart leaves

1B - Gamel

RF - Aoki

CF - Schafer

LF -Braun

[Dollarbill13]

There is no AAAA as much as people like to use. I personally find that term to be absolutely ridiculous.

 

...which I'm not even sure what the definition of that is.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=2280&position=1B

 

Too early to tell on Gamel IMO but I think he'll end up just as a role player at this point. He'll be 27 next month so he'll be entering his prime. If there's ever a time to give him a shot, it'd be in the next couple years but if a better option became available, I wouldn't hesitate because of Gamel.

[TooLiveBrew]

At this point, Gamel to RF & Hart to 1B just seems too simple to pass up. I think many are really underestimating just how badly the Brewers are missing Mat's batt this season.

[TheCrew07]

Schafer is already 25 and repeating AAA, he has almost a year's worth of games played there now. Why should he be sent back for a 3rd time? Calling him up next season means that the Brewers would control him until he was 32 or 33, the perfect time to cut bait and move onto the next player, if a player of greater impact doesn't force his way sooner.

 

I don't get the fascination with Gomez and/or Morgan, both need a platoon advantage to succeed, and I use succeed very loosely. Why we wouldn't go younger, cheaper, controlled longer, and basically take the better all around player? Schafer should be a better player than Morgan given the same situation and wouldn't retaining Gomez depend on what it takes in Arby to get it done? Yes he plays good defense and has speed, but as far as spending money in 2013, CF is way down my personal list of priorities when Aoki can slide over there. Aoki isn't Gomez defensively, but he doesn't need to be either. Of the 3 players we currently have on the roster Aoki appears to be the superior all around player by any measure and it's not really even all that close.

 

I'd much rather go with some combination of Braun, Aoki, Shafer, Gamel, and Hart in the outfield and then find another RH OF bench bat than mess around with Gomez and Morgan for another year.

[dlk9s]

getting off to a impressive start just using the eye test

 

http://i.imgur.com/QgNtx.gif

[PrinceEatMeat]

It would be fitting if Gamel got moved to RF. He just keeps getting moved. I wouldn't mind him out there though. He wouldn't be any worse than Hart defensively, and he has a strong arm. His bat is also needed in the lineup. Hart is just looking way too good at 1B defensively to move him back to RF. A swap would work out nicely. Not sure if they'd wait until 2014 or not though. Because they'll still have Aoki next year, and Hart's contract is up after next year as well. May just use Gamel all over for a year, and then wait and see where we need him in 2014.

[logan82]

I thought Gamel did good at 1B defensively but Hart has been really impressive. At this point I would see if we can extend Hart another couple years.

 

I can't wait to see Schafer as our CF but don't want to deplete our depth unless we can get something good in trade. I don't really have a huge problem with how CF looks right now.

[paul253]

At this point I would see if we can extend Hart another couple years.

 

I just don't understand this thinking. He'll be 31 when his contract runs out and looking for one last big contract. Why throw 3 years and $40 million at a guy who is on the downside of his career when you have a perfectly good replacement (and by 2014 you might have more than one option) for him? He is barely getting on base at a .300 clip this year and is striking out about once every three at bats. As I've said before, Corey Hart is exactly the kind of player Milwaukee needs to get away from. His production is just not worth the cost, especially when we have in house replacements.

 

As for Mat Gamel. His injury could not have come at a worse time. He was FINALLY given a chance to play every day and he gets hurt hustling to try to catch a foul ball. Now his chance is likely gone. Let's face it, we can call for Hart back to right or Hart being traded but we all Melvin isn't going to trade Hart. First base is Corey Hart's next season. Gamel is going to have to fight with Aoki for playing time in right field at best and at worst he's going to be a utility guy who plays 1st, 3rd, and RF. Mat Gamel no longer has a future as an every day player in Milwaukee.

[Invader3K]

I'll just say that with the depth the Brewers have accumulated in the OF, I don't see Hart being signed to another extension, and I don't see Gamel being moved out to RF either. Gamel is destined to be a throw-in with a trade, or simply DFAed at some point. I hate to be down on the guy, but long term I don't think he has a spot with the Milwaukee Brewers.

[pacopete4]

I just can't see how we take another shot on not only Gamel staying healthy let alone actually producing at an above average level like Hart will and he rarely misses games along with seeing how well defensively he plays to me it's a no brainer if you can extend at hometown discount.

[Invader3K]

I haven't really been on top of the team's lower prospects lately, but I have to believe in the next couple years we might have our next 1B knocking on the door for an MLB call up. There's always the possibility of acquiring such a player in a trade if Melvin and Attanasio decide to sell this season. I just don't see the wisdom of extending Hart when he'll be on the tail end of his prime years, and I've been one of Corey Hart's biggest supporters the past couple years.

[monty57]

I like Hart, but I think he needs to be traded while his value's high (with the new CBA, the value goes down significantly once the receiving team can no longer get comp picks). Whether that's now or in the off-season, he should be traded for a young SS or SP who can help our team for league minimum next year and into the future.

 

For next year, we should pick up a RH bench player who can play 1B/corner OF. Gamel should be the "everyday" 1B with the aforementioned RH player giving him some time off and providing "injury insurance." We will always need inexpensive guys playing key roles and Gamel is still an inexpensive guy who should be able to hit. I don't see how his getting injured this year changes anything. If he can provide decent production for league minimum and we are able to get some good production from other pre-arby guys, then we can be competitive in the future. If we continue doing things like extending aging players to expensive market deals which block potentially productive league-minimum guys, we will lose financial flexibility and have a large portion of our payroll tied up in a few (aging) players and therefore have gaping holes elsewhere on our roster.

[JohnBriggs12]

monty57,

 

The Brewers weren't all that sold on Gamel going into this season. He got the job basically by default. If he performed reasonably well, then he'd stay there. If not they were ready to move Hart, injury or no injury and they would not have waited an entire season. They also kept Ishikawa as insurance in case of failure. If they were sold on Gamel, neither move would have been made.

 

What's changed is now they know Hart can play there. They also know they have a cost efficient player in Aoki that can play RF. They also will make room for Schafer if not later this season, certainly next year.

 

What's also changed is Gamel is missing nearly an entire season. He's never hit over an extended period in the major leagues so your comment he "should be able to hit" is much less certain than you suggest. Change the word "should" to "could" and there is a huge difference.

 

The relative merits of extending or not extending Hart have nothing to do with Gamel. Gamel will have to earn his way onto a roster and into a lineup. He's beyond the point where it's going to be handed to him. Tough for him but that's life in baseball.