Would you believe....Ben Sheets?

[razzzorsharp]

Hey, let's not slam Tyler Houston here. Cmon people.

[rluzinski]

I always liked Sheets and used to get so annoyed/frustrated when fans complained about him or acted like he wasn't any good. I think it stemmed from his record, I used to hear him glossed over because he never won 20 games and was usually only around .500.

 

It had everything to do with his record. We had some pretty sad debates around here in 2004, since everyone knew that "good starting pitchers find ways to win". It seems most fans know better these days.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=sheetbe01&t=p&year=2004

[Funketown]

Well, if Ben Sheets had been more like Yovani Gallardo he might have gotten more 1-0 victories! His "plate approach" was one of the worst I'd ever seen for a pitcher. If memory serves, Clemens won the Cy that year with his 18-4 record over Sheets and Randy Johnson, who had an even better year than Sheets.

 

You still hear the same stuff about quarterbacks who "just don't know how to win". Hordes of people around Wisconsin and the rest of the nation (you know who you are) were calling out Aaron Rodgers after the Packers' 146-139 loss to the Cardinals in the playoffs a few years back. He just wasn't clutch and couldn't find a way to win!

[DuWayne Steurer]

I always liked Sheets and used to get so annoyed/frustrated when fans complained about him or acted like he wasn't any good. I think it stemmed from his record, I used to hear him glossed over because he never won 20 games and was usually only around .500.

 

It had everything to do with his record. We had some pretty sad debates around here in 2004, since everyone knew that "good starting pitchers find ways to win". It seems most fans know better these days.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=sheetbe01&t=p&year=2004

 

 

Ben Sheets <<<<< Wayne Franklin.

 

 

'Nuff said.

[fondybrewfan]

264 K's and only 32 BB's. That is just crazy. I am still pissed that I missed his 18 K performance because I was at my sister's college graduation

[bjkrautk]

I always liked Sheets and used to get so annoyed/frustrated when fans complained about him or acted like he wasn't any good. I think it stemmed from his record, I used to hear him glossed over because he never won 20 games and was usually only around .500. Of course no on considered how awful some of those teams he played on were and just limited their offense was when the bottom half of the lineup was filled with Tyler Houston, Royce Clayton, Counsell, Moeller, types and then Sheets. I remember going to games not expecting a single base runner after the 5 hole. Sheets would have needed to pitch a complete game shut out nearly every outing to have a chance at 20 wins on some of those teams.

 

Lest we forget, Sheets pitched 9 shutout innings against the Angels, and the Brewers still lost the game in extra innings.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=240608103

 

 

I'd love for Sheeter's career to have a 2nd act; especially since he hurt himself trying to match CC outing-for-outing back in '08.

[Mike2k33]

 

Ben Sheets <<<<< Wayne Franklin.

 

 

'Nuff said.

 

 

hahaha, thank you!

 

The Wayne Franklin/Matt Kinney debates were some of the most ridiculous, hilarious and dumbfounding things I've ever had the glory of reading on Brewerfan.net. I forget(and have no real desire to look up) who had more wins, but I remember one poster being dead set on that guy being FAR superior to the other. The guy with the worse record was the worst pitcher in the league and should have been traded immediately, if not shot. It was just bizarre.

[razzzorsharp]

When it's all said and done, one thing I think we can all agree on is that Chris Capuano was/is the "True Ace".

[DHonks]

bjkrautk, the Brewers won that game in extra innings. I remember lying on the couch. I got really hungry and had to pee, but I knew I couldn't move because I might be the one to ruin Sheets' no-no. The hit off Sheets was a classic Guerrero hit....nobody else in baseball could have hit that ball in the dirt.

 

It's really a shame that Sheets is trying to come back with the Braves. I hope it's because he's from the region, not because the Brewers didn't make an offer. He did so much for us that we owed him at least a minor league contract. I hope all goes well, and I hope he still has a soft spot for Milwaukee.

[brains and braun]

I fondly remember Sheets picking up a win in just over 2 hours, maybe 2 hours and 10 mins. Contrasting that with CVargas made for some awful long afternoons.

[Glennron]

Atlanta comes to town in September. I'm praying he's still in the rotation by then and that he'll pitch here.

[HiAndTight]

When it's all said and done, one thing I think we can all agree on is that Chris Capuano was/is the "True Ace".

 

 

Ahhh....I remember that argument.

 

Incidentally, I recall another argument from a guy who previously posted on this board, ESPN, and other message boards who argued that 3 run HR's or GS's are "Ralley Killers," because you have to start all over again and you're more likely to score more than 4 runs with the bases loaded if you hit a single rather than a HR because you keep the pressure on the pitcher. Dead serious argument. I've never been so perplexed by a Brewers fan before.

[HiAndTight]

bjkrautk, the Brewers won that game in extra innings. I remember lying on the couch. I got really hungry and had to pee, but I knew I couldn't move because I might be the one to ruin Sheets' no-no. The hit off Sheets was a classic Guerrero hit....nobody else in baseball could have hit that ball in the dirt.

 

It's really a shame that Sheets is trying to come back with the Braves. I hope it's because he's from the region, not because the Brewers didn't make an offer. He did so much for us that we owed him at least a minor league contract. I hope all goes well, and I hope he still has a soft spot for Milwaukee.

 

 

It seemed like he was pretty upset with us when he left town. Not sure why. Well, actually I know why, it was because of the fact that we didn't offer him a contract extension during the season, but we can hardly be blamed since he was coming off several injury plagued seasons. But it should have been obvious why.

 

We did offer him nearly 14-15 million in arbitration knowing full well that he was injured after 2008 and he turned us down.

 

Anyway, I hope he has some success. I'd have loved to see him in Milwaukee, but I thought I remembered he grew up a Braves fan, and wanted to pitch down in Texas or Atlanta. In the South in either event. For a two pitch pitcher though, he sure was dominant at times.

[thebruce44]

Atlanta comes to town in September. I'm praying he's still in the rotation by then and that he'll pitch here.

 

I might have to drive up from Chicago just to participate in the standing ovation he better get.

[jerichoholicninja]

Ben's first start yesterday:

 

Loss, 5 IP, 5 HA, 4 R, 4 ER, 1 BB, 6 K

[sdcheezhd]

I always liked Sheets and used to get so annoyed/frustrated when fans complained about him or acted like he wasn't any good. I think it stemmed from his record, I used to hear him glossed over because he never won 20 games and was usually only around .500. Of course no on considered how awful some of those teams he played on were and just limited their offense was when the bottom half of the lineup was filled with Tyler Houston, Royce Clayton, Counsell, Moeller, types and then Sheets. I remember going to games not expecting a single base runner after the 5 hole. Sheets would have needed to pitch a complete game shut out nearly every outing to have a chance at 20 wins on some of those teams.

 

Lest we forget, Sheets pitched 9 shutout innings against the Angels, and the Brewers still lost the game in extra innings.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=240608103

 

 

I'd love for Sheeter's career to have a 2nd act; especially since he hurt himself trying to match CC outing-for-outing back in '08.

 

The Brewers won that one. The memorable cheese sandwich game.

[Oldcity]

I get so frustrated when people question Sheets' toughness. 2004 he had a Cy Young caliber season over 237 innings, and he did it with a herniated disc. He was fourth in MLB in innings from 2002-2004. Before his injuries, he was a horse.

[TheCrew07]

That's true of just about every top pitcher that gets the injury bug though and I can understand the frustration from the public when he signed what was a pretty major contract for the Brewers at the time and then wasn't able to take the ball.

 

You can really like a pitcher, root for him, and yet be frustrated when he couldn't be relied upon to take the ball every game. People tried any number of justifications regarding what was he paid and his past performance and so on, but none of that really mattered when he finally completely broke down in 2008, wasn't available for the playoffs, and didn't even net the Brewers any draft picks. It was just an extremely anti-climatic way to end a career with a team.

 

He deserved better, he pitched on some terrible teams, but he didn't appear to be a bastion of fitness either, there's probably equal blame both ways. He didn't work terribly hard to keep himself in shape and the organization rode him too hard too early, and like many athletes one major injury led to another and the dominoes kept falling on him. Some pitchers can be out of shape and overweight and make it work, some can't, Benny never let himself get to a Bob Wickman type body for example, but he wasn't svelte either, nor was he was an especially great athlete to start with, he just had a great arm and 2 great pitches.

 

I would have liked to see him take the ball in playoffs for many reasons, but it just wasn't meant to be. I wish him success in ATL as he tries to make it back and I'll be rooting for him, I've been a casual Braves fan most of my life anyway.

[logan82]

I seem to remember he had some nagging injuries at the All-Star break yet he continued to pitch through the whole season. He was a horse and probably did himself harm by pitching the second half of the 2008 season.

[DHonks]

In June of '08, my friend in the clubhouse told me Sheets' arm was shot. I said "what do you mean, he's throwing 98!?!" He said Ben was grinding it out, but hurting a lot. Sure enough, by the end of August he was out for the year. Didn't he also start the all-star game that year?

 

I don't believe we ever heard confirmation that Sheets was out of shape. He always looked in shape to me. He always had back problems (sleeping on the floor in hotels) and the freak vestibular neuritis. The only place I ever saw reports of him being out of shape were from fans on here.

[logan82]

I remember I didn't want him pitching during the All-Star game.

[jerichoholicninja]

I think the majority of fan's frustrations were what the injuries were. He missed how many months because of an ear infection?

[TooLiveBrew]

Vestibular neuritis is very different from 'an ear infection'. That's exactly the type of attitude toward Sheets that was addressed in earlier posts.

[jerichoholicninja]

Vestibular neuritis is very different from 'an ear infection'. That's exactly the type of attitude toward Sheets that was addressed in earlier posts.

 

My point was Ben hurt everything but his arm/shoulder (until the end). It was always an injury that pitchers don't usually get.

[rluzinski]

In June of '08, my friend in the clubhouse told me Sheets' arm was shot. I said "what do you mean, he's throwing 98!?!" He said Ben was grinding it out, but hurting a lot. Sure enough, by the end of August he was out for the year. Didn't he also start the all-star game that year?

 

I don't believe we ever heard confirmation that Sheets was out of shape. He always looked in shape to me. He always had back problems (sleeping on the floor in hotels) and the freak vestibular neuritis. The only place I ever saw reports of him being out of shape were from fans on here.

 

Ben gained weight as he got older, just like 99% of baseball players. He was never fat though. I think it just gave fans frustrated with his injuries a means to vent. It's not as emotionally satisfying to blame bad luck so they have to attack the person. You see it over and over again in sports.

 

"Ben's first start yesterday: Loss, 5 IP, 5 HA, 4 R, 4 ER, 1 BB, 6 K"

 

More importantly, his fastball was sitting around 90 MPH. I'm almost surprised it's that high. Now I am a little jealous that the Braves signed him. Did they ever disclose how much Sheets was signed for?

 

His next start is tonight, where he's expected to go around 90 pitches.