Narron's Ineffectiveness

[brewtank34]

Regulars: (Guys that should be hitting better than they are)

 

Weeks: .166 (worst year of his career. normally a .270ish hitter)

Hart: .253 (underachieving)

Gomez: .258 (I'll take this, but I think he could do more)

Braun: .310 (stellar as usual, especially under the circumstances)

ARam: .255 (starting to build it up)

Morgan: .227

Lucroy: .345 (please come back soon)

 

Subs (Our minor leaguers who shouldn't even be here to begin with)

 

Green: .230 (has the potential to be hitting much better)

Ransom: .219 (ouch)

Conrad: .079 (see ya Crash Davis)

 

Other than Braun and Aoki (who are 2 players who are proven hitters regardless of who's coaching them), the rest of the team is under .260. When are we going to start calling for Narron's head? My answer is today! This is getting to be too much to handle. If he can't get Weeks over the mendoza line, there's a problem. Yeah, he helped Hamilton to be the hitter he could be, but Hamilton is someone who I would put in the Braun/Aoki class and can hit regardless of who's coaching him. Narron needs to be held accountable and the Media has been giving him a free pass this year due to the injuries. I'm not on board with this plan and I feel that Weeks, Hart, Morgan, Ramiriez, EVERYONE is playing under their norms. It's time to start changing some philosophies or something.

[dlk9s]

And it was Mickey Hatcher's fault that Pujols sucked.

[adambr2]

Are we going to start calling for Kranitz's then, too? We are 7th in the NL in runs scored and OPS, but near the bottom in almost every pitching category. The pitching has been the main problem, not the bats.

 

Although I do find it somewhat shocking that he can't figure out a way to break someone as talented as Weeks out of one of the worst stretches hitting you'll ever see by a professional hitter.

[FVBrewerFan]

Why is Lucroy, Braun, Gomez, and Hart on that list of regulars who are under-performing? Every one of them is around or above their carreer OPS.

[patrickgpe]

i won't blame Narron.

 

The only really damning thing all season was when Conrad got sent down and said that the AAA hitting coach saw something made a slight adjustment and he started raking in Nashville (which obviously that adjustment hasn't carried over here)

[logan82]

Gomez is not a good hitter and is hitting about as well as can be expected.

 

You can't make any judgement of the subs based on stats because of the sample size.

Hart is underachieving a little bit but not much.

Ramirez' line isn't to far off especially considering his start to the year.

 

Morgan and Weeks are the only 2 that should be doing a lot better. No way I blame a hitting coach for that kind of stuff though.

[RockCoCougars]

I'd have no problem showing Narron the door. Won't happen though.

[longball04]

Last time I checked, these guys are all professional baseball players. Shouldn't they be held accountable for their own poor performances? I would think they need to take some of the credit for playing poor. The coaches can only do so much. It's up to the players to actually take the information that they are being given and applying it in the real world. If the hitting coach tells you that you are crowding the plate and getting jammed non-stop, isn't it your responsibility to actually take a step off the plate and correct it? It's nice to fault the hitting and pitching coaches, but when a player underperforms, they have to be held accountable. I blame managers for putting players in positions to fail, but at the same time, you can also step up as a player and do something about it.

 

So no, I wouldn't fire the hitting coach because a team that has historically struck out a lot, and hit homers to score, is doing exactly that. And with the talent pool we have right now, I think they are performing right up where a lot of people thought they would be, throwing Weeks out of the equation. I just think we assign too much blame to the guys who aren't on the field, for the way the guys perform on the field. Narron can't make people swing or make contact.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yeah, it's Narron's fault that Weeks has sucked, but he has nothing to do with the success of Aoki, Braun, Lucroy, & others. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the 'fire Kranitz/Narron' threads have popped up, but let's take a step back.

[rluzinski]

I wouldn't want batters who've hit well at all levels for years to make any significant changes to their approach.

[brewtank34]

Braun and aoki are proven hitters. Yeah it's up to the batters to take the info from the coaches and produce. But, what happens when the info they are listening to is wrong or damaging? Then Yes, it is a coaches problem.

[markedman5]

Yes I started a thread on Kranitz but I did it as a way to spark discussion on how much he should be held accountable.

 

I never called for him to be fired but if most of the staff is underperforming I think it's more then fair to look at the pitching coach to see if he is part of the solution or part of the problem.

 

Yeah, it's Narron's fault that Weeks has sucked, but he has nothing to do with the success of Aoki, Braun, Lucroy, & others. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the 'fire Kranitz/Narron' threads have popped up, but let's take a step back.

[TooLiveBrew]

I just don't think we as fans will ever have any realistic kind of insight on how well or poorly a hitting/pitching coach is doing his job. Just because players X, Y, & Z are struggling... or players A, B, & C are doing well... it doesn't tell you if a coach is doing his job well or not.

 

It's not that I think it's not worth discussing, it's that I don't think we'll ever have access to the correct information about whether or not a coach is doing well or poorly.

[longball04]

The only thing I would blame Narron on is if he hasn't seen Weeks falling all over the plate when he swings. If he has seen it, and has no problem with it, then yes, Narron should be blamed for Weeks' poor approach at the plate and failure as a hitter this year. And Weeks walks a lot because pitchers know he'll chase, hence the high strikeout numbers. They don't have to throw strikes to Weeks to get outs.

[RockCoCougars]

I think good coaching helps more than poor coaching hurts, if that makes any sense. I'll use Weeks as an example of a guy who may need to be 'coached up'. When he got to the bigs, he was pretty atrocious in the field, I give Randolph a ton of credit for rectifying that. Offensively, he was struggling quite a bit as well, I'm not sure that it's a coincidence that his best seasons were with Sveum as hitting coach. Now for someone like Braun, I don't think that coaching matters in the least. That's probably the case with many guys who either don't need or don't accept much advice from the coaches.

[dlk9s]

So, basically, Morgan and Weeks have sucked this year, Ramirez started slow and is revving it up, and the rest of the "underperforming" hitters are AAA/AAAA guys. Doesn't look to bad for the hitting coach to me.

[adambr2]

So, basically, Morgan and Weeks have sucked this year, Ramirez started slow and is revving it up, and the rest of the "underperforming" hitters are AAA/AAAA guys. Doesn't look to bad for the hitting coach to me.

 

I have to agree with this. We are 7th in OPS and runs scored in the NL. Where was everyone expecting us to be offensively this year? We've lost Gonzalez, Gamel, and Lucroy -- all opening day starters, for some or all of the season. Yeah, Weeks is troubling, but I don't think we know enough of the situation to be able to speak to why. I'd be pretty shocked if he isn't doing everything in his power to try to correct it.

[3and2Fastball]

Narron is our one small smidgeon of a hope that Josh Hamilton signs with the Brewers

 

Because of that, and because a hitting coach isn't the reason for a small sample's batch of stats, I wouldn't fire him.

 

Oh, and Jonathan Lucroy waves "hello"

[fondybrewfan]

O come on there is less than 0% chance that we sign Josh Hamilton. Not that I want Narron fired; but that is no reason at all to keep a hitting coach around.

 

We have a bunch of players performing very poorly right now;I put the blame squarly on them rather then the coaches. However coaches usually are the fall guys so at a minimum I wouldn't expect Narron back in 2013 if this continues

[RockCoCougars]

So, basically, Morgan and Weeks have sucked this year, Ramirez started slow and is revving it up, and the rest of the "underperforming" hitters are AAA/AAAA guys. Doesn't look to bad for the hitting coach to me.

 

Where was everyone expecting us to be offensively this year? We've lost Gonzalez, Gamel, and Lucroy -- all opening day starters, for some or all of the season. Yeah, Weeks is troubling, but I don't think we know enough of the situation to be able to speak to why. I'd be pretty shocked if he isn't doing everything in his power to try to correct it.

 

I expected the offense to take a ding from the beginning, because I didn't buy into the whole Ramirez+Gonzalez+Gamel> McGehee+Betancourt+Fielder equation that was being tossed about all Winter long. Simply put, Fielder himself is greater than all of those guys. The injuries play some role, but not a huge one in my view. The major issue is that two guys counted on for the middle of the order in a big way have not come through. No explanation necessary for Weeks, and though you say Ramirez is 'revving' it up, I expected more than 5 homers by mid June.... we are roughly 3 weeks from the All-Star break. This doesn't mention that yet again, this team has problems getting clutch hits and scoring without homering.

 

We are 7th in OPS and runs scored in the NL.

 

All that I can say about this is there are some horrible offenses in baseball this year. Does that absolve the Brewers ineptitude? I did a quick check and the Brewer RPG output to this point is the lowest they've had since '04 and I believe the third lowest that they've had since joining the NL. You also have to consider that the explosion a few Sundays back against the Twins bumped the RPG total up a quarter of a point or so. They have failed to score 4 runs in half their games, not good.

 

In the end, I'm not saying that firing Narron now would do any good, but I will say that the hitters have seemed to regress with the loss of Sveum. I won't shed any tears if he is gone at the end of the year though.... I hate nepotism at any rate.

[pretendastronaut]

Casey McGehee is putting up basically the same stat line this season with a new hitting coach. For as much credit as Sveum gets for helping hitters, he supposedly has been working with Cubs hitters this season along with, recently released, Jaramillo and they're one of the worst offense in the NL.

 

Ultimately I agree with what TooLiveBrew said, we really have no basis to know the extent of these relationships in order to form anything resembling an accurate opinion.

[RockCoCougars]

Well, if Sveum got Rickie back to a semblance what he was over the past three seasons, that'd be more than enough for me. I think that you can clearly see that Sveum helped Weeks in a big way.

[adambr2]

So, basically, Morgan and Weeks have sucked this year, Ramirez started slow and is revving it up, and the rest of the "underperforming" hitters are AAA/AAAA guys. Doesn't look to bad for the hitting coach to me.

 

Where was everyone expecting us to be offensively this year? We've lost Gonzalez, Gamel, and Lucroy -- all opening day starters, for some or all of the season. Yeah, Weeks is troubling, but I don't think we know enough of the situation to be able to speak to why. I'd be pretty shocked if he isn't doing everything in his power to try to correct it.

 

I expected the offense to take a ding from the beginning, because I didn't buy into the whole Ramirez+Gonzalez+Gamel> McGehee+Betancourt+Fielder equation that was being tossed about all Winter long. Simply put, Fielder himself is greater than all of those guys. The injuries play some role, but not a huge one in my view. The major issue is that two guys counted on for the middle of the order in a big way have not come through. No explanation necessary for Weeks, and though you say Ramirez is 'revving' it up, I expected more than 5 homers by mid June.... we are roughly 3 weeks from the All-Star break. This doesn't mention that yet again, this team has problems getting clutch hits and scoring without homering.

 

We are 7th in OPS and runs scored in the NL.

 

All that I can say about this is there are some horrible offenses in baseball this year. Does that absolve the Brewers ineptitude? I did a quick check and the Brewer RPG output to this point is the lowest they've had since '04 and I believe the third lowest that they've had since joining the NL. You also have to consider that the explosion a few Sundays back against the Twins bumped the RPG total up a quarter of a point or so. They have failed to score 4 runs in half their games, not good.

 

In the end, I'm not saying that firing Narron now would do any good, but I will say that the hitters have seemed to regress with the loss of Sveum. I won't shed any tears if he is gone at the end of the year though.... I hate nepotism at any rate.

 

First, I would say that when considering the point that there are some horrible offenses in baseball this year, I would then ask if that's a product of everyone just being inept, us included, or a product of better pitching around the league.

 

Secondly, I am not sure how you came up with that statistic for the Brewers RPG but I do not believe it to be true. The Brewers have scored 268 runs through 62 games this year -- an average of 4.33 RPG. Just last season on this very date, the Brewers had scored 290 runs through 68 games -- an average of 4.28 RPG. So with all this talk about how much worse the offense looks without Dale -- so far it seems to be perception, not reality. Statistically at this very point last season, we had less RPG than at this point this year -- with very little injuries, Prince in the lineup, and a productive Weeks.

 

As I've mentioned I believe the difference to be the pitching this year, not the hitting, as to why we are not contending. The pitching at this point last year had allowed 3.85 RPG -- this year? Almost a full run higher so far at 4.68.

[adambr2]

Offense now 4th in the NL in RPG and pitching 14th.

 

I'm still puzzled as to why the general fan tendency has been to blame the offense.

[clancyphile]

Offense now 4th in the NL in RPG and pitching 14th.

 

I'm still puzzled as to why the general fan tendency has been to blame the offense.

 

Two very high-visibility reasons:

1. Weeks slumped early on - even though he's hit better in June.

2. The motley crew at first base instead of Prince Fielder.