The injury thread [Latest 5/28: Luc to 15-day DL with hand fracture]

[Thurston Fluff]

What exactly would he have been mad enough about to punch something? It's hard to think why it would be personal performance related. I guess it could be team performance. In either of those events one would think that would have happened after the game in the stadium not in a hotel room with his wife. After all punching a wall is something done in the heat of the moment not hours later. So that leaves personal issues. All in all we have never heard of issues of him losing it like Fielder or Morgan did at times. So unless someone has some sort of reason to think he and his wife were fighting or something like that we should just accept it as a freak accident. Why speculate at all when there is no smoke let alone fire? Especially since we didn't see the break, how it happened or even know if the reports on the type of injury are even accurate. What has he ever done to make us question his word?

[RockCoCougars]

Why speculate at all when there is no smoke let alone fire?

 

If a suitcase fell on his hand, hurting him enough to break a bone, I question why he waited until BP to consult with the team medical staff. If this was an innocent accident, why suffer with the pain when the team has a trainer available to help you? I'm sure that he didn't go to them because he didn't want the team to worry about yet another injury.

[chickinbrickin]

Who cares, let's talk about something more productive like who is going to replace him on the roster. After watch George last night I don't think he is healthy enought right now to play either.

 

Maldonado is really the only option right?

[longball04]

By all reports for a couple years, Maldonado is an upgrade defensively. We already have a lineup full of offensive holes. So what's one more? I think Martin will be just fine. It helps that he is catching someone he is used to. Another couple young guys I am excited to watch.

[bork]

JS Online has a new poll up. How can they not have Matt "Salad Tongs" Wise as a choice?

 

Catcher Jonathan Lucroy, one of the Brewers' few brights spots so far this season, was placed on the disabled list after breaking his hand, reportedly when a suitcase fell on it in his hotel room. That ranks among the weirdest Brewers injuries -- which one is No. 1?

 

What's the weirdest Brewers injury ever?

 

Paul Molitor's fractured finger (after trying on another player's glove, 1990)

 

Steve Sparks' dislocated shoulder (after trying to rip phone book in half, 1994)

 

Ernest Riles, injured finger (cut on a glass in his kitchen, 1987)

 

Lucroy's broken hand

[RockCoCougars]

Molitor didn't break his finger by trying on a glove. He was horsing around with a teammate (Dave Engle?) and got his finger caught up in their cleats. Maybe the trying on the glove story was the first one that they used...

[dlk9s]

I'm going to convince myself that this rash of injuries will turn out like the 2010 Packers' string of bad luck.

[Madtown343]

Not a brewer but didn't Barmes fall down stairs carrying venison? Unusual too.

[pebadger]

It's fine to have questions. It's another thing to invent scenarios. I don't know what happened. I can think all the things I want. I can even post them or say them out loud. But there is a line, and some of the things I've read and heard in various places (and I'm not just talking about Brewerfan.net) seem to me to be crossing the line. It's even fine to cross that line, wherever that line is. Just don't be annoyed if someone in turn calls out comments as perhaps crossing that line. I haven't named any names or specific comments. Just putting it out there that sometimes speculation simply isn't fair, and it certainly shouldn't be passed off as idle, impersonal banter because it's more than that.

 

I've known guys who have broken their hands before and who didn't know it was broken. You can get hit on the back of your hand and have it be sore and swollen and then in a day or so it's not a big problem anymore. Luc has probably had his hands beat up plenty and played through it. It's a rare professional catcher on any level who hasn't. He may well have gotten hurt, thought he could deal with it like all the other times he's gotten hurt and then he couldn't go. It would be just as easy for him to be reticent to say anything about getting hurt in some stupid, innocent accident as it would about any other way of getting hurt. It's just as easy to believe that a guy who has been banged up before wouldn't necessarily know his hand was broken if he's dealt with worse that hasn't been a break.

 

I don't know what happened. Maybe it all happened the way it's been presented, maybe it didn't. But to characterize the explanation as a "story" in the sense that it's simply a construct for public consumption just bothers me, even more so when people then turn around and use that characterization as an excuse to construct their own "stories". But then I once hit my wife in the head with a hammer (a glancing blow to the scalp, but it drew blood and an ER visit) while we were demolishing our first kitchen. She came around the corner and walked right into my followthrough. You're scared and feel awful, and then you have to deal with a bunch of people who are wondering if what really happened is all just a "story".

 

I can deal with the fact that quite often you don't know what to believe. What I don't much like is that fact that it seems like a lot of people don't even WANT to believe.

[HiAndTight]

He is a catcher, I'd just assume he took a ball off his hand at some point and didn't notice it right away. There doesn't need to be some big conspiracy theory about it.

 

 

 

Ok, so his hand COULD have been in a fist. But it's broken, so it wouldn't have been something he just shrugged off.

 

Also, when you're blocking a ball, you're hand usually isn't closed up, or in a fist, but lets assume it is.

 

He waits a couple days and comes up with a ridiculous story that contradicts what a boxers fracture is? It doesn't HAVE to be a conspiracy, but it certainly sounds like a made up story.

[dlk9s]

If a suitcase fell on his hand, hurting him enough to break a bone, I question why he waited until BP to consult with the team medical staff. If this was an innocent accident, why suffer with the pain when the team has a trainer available to help you?

 

I don't know why that series of events is hard to believe.

 

1) Suffer injury Sunday night.

2) It hurts, but hope/think it's just a bruise that can be managed. Likely ice it that night/next morning.

3) Test out the hand during an early batting practice, but can't grip the bat properly.

4) Tell manager, see doctor.

 

Sounds pretty normal to me.

[HiAndTight]

From what I gather a portion of the fanbase believes Luc is a liar with an anger management problem.

 

People are free to hold their own opinions. Just don't say that these assertions aren't personal attacks on the guy, because they are.

 

 

From what I can gather from the entirity of this post, you haven't read very closely.

 

A-Nobody's said he has an anger management problem. Your words, hasn't been brought up one single time as far as I can see until you brought it up to inflame.

 

B-Better men than Lucroy have lied. And from what I know, Luc's a pretty good guy.

 

 

 

Now maybe you can go back and read again and rather than throw out adjectives and associate them with people who never made them, you can see that MOST of us don't believe the story and believe he's being dishonest in THIS case(if you want to say that's us calling him a liar, well, several of us have had experience with this and all admitted to lying about it. What's more, I'd like to find ONE single person who hasn't lied in their life.

 

 

What's more, I don't think ANYONE suggesting that his story of a BOXERS FRACTURE(please re-read those words) is a little off and that, like ALL of us, he MIGHT have gotten upset and hit something.

 

 

This might not have dawned on you because pro-athletes don't have any flaws, any problems and are essentially perfect(if they're good) but they face stress just like other people, and sometimes people do things OUT OF CHARACTER.

 

 

So YOU'RE the only one assigning him the label of a "liar," with an "anger management," problem when we're simply looking at a story that seems just plain ridiculous and most of us are saying, "yeah, I can understand why he'd lie about a story like this," without passing a whole lot of judgement.

 

 

So please don't re-word our posts and pretend you're not making things up. Alright?

[RockCoCougars]

If a suitcase fell on his hand, hurting him enough to break a bone, I question why he waited until BP to consult with the team medical staff. If this was an innocent accident, why suffer with the pain when the team has a trainer available to help you?

 

I don't know why that series of events is hard to believe.

 

1) Suffer injury Sunday night.

2) It hurts, but hope/think it's just a bruise that can be managed. Likely ice it that night/next morning.

3) Test out the hand during an early batting practice, but can't grip the bat properly.

4) Tell manager, see doctor.

 

Sounds pretty normal to me.

 

So you break your primary throwing/writing/eating hand and you would wait nearly 24 hours to get treatment? Not me.

[JCREW]

I went for a year with a broken metatarsal, the analogous foot bone to what Luc probably broke in his hand. I did it when I was skateboarding barefoot. It hurt but was manageable until I tweaked it a year later.

 

I'm very much with pebadger on the general tone. Luc's been nothing but professional. He doesn't even make noise about the fact that Wolf won't throw to him. Let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

[HiAndTight]

What exactly would he have been mad enough about to punch something? It's hard to think why it would be personal performance related. I guess it could be team performance. In either of those events one would think that would have happened after the game in the stadium not in a hotel room with his wife. After all punching a wall is something done in the heat of the moment not hours later. So that leaves personal issues. All in all we have never heard of issues of him losing it like Fielder or Morgan did at times. So unless someone has some sort of reason to think he and his wife were fighting or something like that we should just accept it as a freak accident. Why speculate at all when there is no smoke let alone fire? Especially since we didn't see the break, how it happened or even know if the reports on the type of injury are even accurate. What has he ever done to make us question his word?

 

 

And we're just throwing out the possibility that he could have punched something at the stadium for what reason?

[bigredrobbo]

I'm going by the Dr. Gregory House theorem - Everybody Lies.

[RockCoCougars]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I wouldn't look any different on Lucroy if he did break his hand punching an inanimate object. He's a 20 something guy, and a lot of 20 something guys are wont to do things like that.

 

The major issue that I have is that for whatever reason he waited to tell the team knowing that Kottaras was battling a tweak as well. He should have went to them immediately if for no other reason than to get another catcher in town if necessary (and possible). What if Kottaras had been unable to go last night?

[adambr2]

Nobody here is saying Lucroy has an anger management problem and definitely no one here is accusing him of domestic violence.

 

Personally, I have no problem with a guy letting off some steam by punching a non-living object, though as we see with boxer's fractures, it can have consequences. But come on, a lot of us have. A lot of 20 somethings have. People handle anger in different ways, and that doesn't mean there's an anger management problem. As long as you're not expressing anger in the form of physical or verbal abuse towards living people/animals, I don't see an issue.

 

From a medical standpoint, it's a far far more likely scenario than his story. Is his story possible? Sure, it's also probably possible that I could break both my arms from tripping over my own feet when breaking my fall, but highly unlikely.

 

Lets be honest, if Luc punched something, he's not going to tell Skip or his doctors, he's going to make something up as almost anyone in his situation would. He might tell a few people in the clubhouse the actual story, but it's not getting out. Actually the one thing that kind of makes me believe him is the fact that I find it odd that his story would involve his wife. I would think if he was making it up, he could come up with something that didn't involve throwing her under the bus.

 

Either way, it doesn't really matter, it is what it is now and he's out 4-6 weeks.

[logan82]

I don't know why that series of events is hard to believe.

 

1) Suffer injury Sunday night.

2) It hurts, but hope/think it's just a bruise that can be managed. Likely ice it that night/next morning.

3) Test out the hand during an early batting practice, but can't grip the bat properly.

4) Tell manager, see doctor.

 

Sounds pretty normal to me.

I agree. Are you hurt or are you injured? Players try to play through injuries all the time. I don't see the big deal.

[pebadger]

This might not have dawned on you because pro-athletes don't have any flaws, any problems and are essentially perfect(if they're good) but they face stress just like other people, and sometimes people do things OUT OF CHARACTER.

 

Actually it did dawn on me. While I haven't attacked any specific comments or posters (in fact I was speaking more generally to the tone and implications of the comments), you seem to have found it necessary to attack me.

 

Yep, pro athletes are people with the same problems and flaws and feelings and needs as any other. Maybe that's why I choose to come down on the side of thinking that, just as in the case of every other human being who isn't a public figure, maybe it's more fair to refrain from gossip than it is to take the general flaws of humanity and project them onto a single person in the context of a single event.

 

The fictional Dr. House is right - Everyone lies. I just don't take that and turn it into the position that we can then publicly presume that everyone lies about whatever thing in particular we decide they're lying about. Given even the limited facts we have any intelligent person can create very tidy, reasonable speculation. That fact that it's intelligent and tidy and reasonable lends it a certain comfortable weight but it does not make it anything more than what it is: speculation. Voicing that intelligent, tidy and reasonable thought because it's comfortable doesn't change the fact that it's conjecture.

 

I don't know of a reasonably self-aware person who wouldn't see these same doubting comments (and the implications contained in a few) as being personal in nature if they were to be directed at him. Again, people should feel free to speculate as they see fit, just as I feel free to voice the opinion that it some cases it just might be unfair.

[RightFieldCoder]

When I was 12 I had the opportunity to get my first (and it ends up only) start as a pitcher. My mom went outside with me to help me practice the day before. Not having a proper catcher's glove, I was throwing it a bit too hard for her liking. She decided to stand in the lefty's batter box and hold the base in the strike zone with her right hand. I was mixing in curve balls, but having just learned the grip it moved less than my change up. It finally clicked and I threw one of my best curve balls in my life. It curved right into the back of her hand. It was not in a fist, but it was holding the plate with a firm grip. We went straight to the ER where they called it a boxer's break. The doctor believed she had punched something, but her hand was not even in a fist when it happened. To this day her right pinky is noticeably shorter than her left. So it is possible that Lucroy got hit with something in the back of his hand and the break wasn't caused by punching something.

[dlk9s]

If a suitcase fell on his hand, hurting him enough to break a bone, I question why he waited until BP to consult with the team medical staff. If this was an innocent accident, why suffer with the pain when the team has a trainer available to help you?

 

I don't know why that series of events is hard to believe.

 

1) Suffer injury Sunday night.

2) It hurts, but hope/think it's just a bruise that can be managed. Likely ice it that night/next morning.

3) Test out the hand during an early batting practice, but can't grip the bat properly.

4) Tell manager, see doctor.

 

Sounds pretty normal to me.

 

So you break your primary throwing/writing/eating hand and you would wait nearly 24 hours to get treatment? Not me.

 

Re-read the bolded.

 

Also, if I didn't know it was broken, I'd totally wait a day or two to get treatment. I'd likely ice it on and off and see how much the pain subsides. If, after a day or two, I can't write, grip the steering wheel, etc., then I'd think, "Yeah, maybe it's broken," and see a doctor. Of course, if my hand looks grotesque or otherwise obviously messed up, then sure, I'd see a doctor ASAP.

 

I see absolutely nothing odd about Lucroy waiting until the next day to see how it felt. When he determined he could grip a bat, he saw the doctor.

 

Now, if he was married to my wife, she would've made him go to the emergency room, but she wants to take our kids to the doctor the moment they get the sniffles.

[TheCrew07]

I wonder how many people have caught because I only did it for parts of one season (a left handed catchers mitt baby!) and I jammed a finger very early in a game sliding into second base, every single pitch after it was like re injuring that finger again, and that was with a guy on the mound throwing low 60s at best. I couldn't imagine catching a major league pitcher with a broken hand and not having an idea that something was terribly wrong right away even with the extra padding.

[yfinn6]

I wonder how many people have caught because I only did it for parts of one season (a left handed catchers mitt baby!) and I jammed a finger very early in a game sliding into second base, every single pitch after it was like re injuring that finger again, and that was with a guy on the mound throwing low 60s at best. I couldn't imagine catching a major league pitcher with a broken hand and not having an idea that something was terribly wrong right away even with the extra padding.

 

Lucroy's injury is to his right hand, not the glove hand. So yes, it would hurt after every pitch, but that's not the case in this situation.

[The stache]

I punched an icemaker when I was in high school, then broke it again in college hitting a wooden dummy before sparring. To this day, I have a nice bump on top of my right hand. I'm assuming this is the "boxer" fracture everybody is referring to. It still hurts some 20 years later....well, aches sometimes.