Estrada to DL thread (6/26: Estrada back w/MIL, McClendon back in NAS)

[trwi7]

Dave Bush is an ex-Ranger AND an ex-Brewer.

 

And Blue Jay.

[djoctagone]

mcclendon optioned to nashville last night . . . estrada activated and returned to the starting rotation.

[adambr2]

mcclendon optioned to nashville last night . . . estrada activated and returned to the starting rotation.

 

Wait, McClendon was still on the 25 man roster??

[monty57]

It'll be interesting to see what happens when Marcum's healthy. The Brewers seem set on keeping Estrada in the rotation over Fiers, and unless he's up against an innings limit, I want Fiers to continue starting so he's ready to step in next year.

 

Looking to win this year, the best thing may be to put Estrada or Fiers into the pen. Looking to next year, I think the best thing will be to send Fiers back to AAA to keep starting. Call him back up if someone is injured or if they trade Greinke/Marcum.

[paul253]

If the Brewers move Fiers to the bullpen so Marco Estrada can keep starting.......I don't know how to finish that sentence but I'll be pretty upset.

[pacopete4]

If the Brewers move Fiers to the bullpen so Marco Estrada can keep starting.......I don't know how to finish that sentence but I'll be pretty upset.

 

 

Exactly. Who tells these guys that Estrada is a MLB starter? I wanna listen to that convo and then throw a grenade in the room.

[monty57]

If the Brewers move Fiers to the bullpen so Marco Estrada can keep starting.......I don't know how to finish that sentence but I'll be pretty upset.

 

It's right up there with Izturis, Ransom and Ishikawa all being ahead of Green on the depth chart. They've already said Estrada's going to start, so the big question is whether Fiers will be sent to AAA to continue his progression as a starter or if they think they "need his arm in the bullpen" so much that they make him a reliever for the 2012 Brewers.

 

My solace lies in the fact that they just brought Livan in to be the long reliever, which is where I'd see them putting Fiers, so if I had to guess I'd say they're planning on sending Fiers back to the minors.

[MJLiverock]

 

It's right up there with Izturis, Ransom and Ishikawa all being ahead of Green on the depth chart. They've already said Estrada's going to start, so the big question is whether Fiers will be sent to AAA to continue his progression as a starter or if they think they "need his arm in the bullpen" so much that they make him a reliever for the 2012 Brewers.

 

My solace lies in the fact that they just brought Livan in to be the long reliever, which is where I'd see them putting Fiers, so if I had to guess I'd say they're planning on sending Fiers back to the minors.

 

 

Considering Green can't play SS it seems a stretch to wonder why Green doesn't get in there ahead of those two stiffs. Green has done nothing to show he is better than Ishikawa so I don't get the constant complaints or calling RR an idiot for this situation, especially when Ishikawa was on the DL for most of the recent games. I do remember RR was some sort of fool in the complainers eyes for keeping Ishikawa over Conrand, then became and idiot when Conrad played and was terrible.

 

Hart has now taken over 1B, Aram is at third, Weeks at 2nd, where is Green going to play? It isn't like he is some uber prospect that the team has to get in the lineup. His minor league numbers are remarkably similar to Ishikawa's and Ishikawa has outproduced him at the ML level. If the team finally throws in the towel and admits the playoffs are pipe dream then fine, try to get Green in as much as possible just to see if he can hack it at the ML level but at this point I can't complain about Ishikawa getting some AB's over him.

[Baldkin]

 

Hart has now taken over 1B, Aram is at third, Weeks at 2nd, where is Green going to play?

 

Let me just show you this, since May 6th, when Green was called up:

Ransom: 9 starts at 2B/3B

Maysonett: 3 starts at 2B

Green: 4 starts at 3B/2B

 

Now, you tell me what is wrong with that situation?

[JohnBriggs12]

 

It's right up there with Izturis, Ransom and Ishikawa all being ahead of Green on the depth chart. They've already said Estrada's going to start, so the big question is whether Fiers will be sent to AAA to continue his progression as a starter or if they think they "need his arm in the bullpen" so much that they make him a reliever for the 2012 Brewers.

 

My solace lies in the fact that they just brought Livan in to be the long reliever, which is where I'd see them putting Fiers, so if I had to guess I'd say they're planning on sending Fiers back to the minors.

 

 

Considering Green can't play SS it seems a stretch to wonder why Green doesn't get in there ahead of those two stiffs. Green has done nothing to show he is better than Ishikawa so I don't get the constant complaints or calling RR an idiot for this situation, especially when Ishikawa was on the DL for most of the recent games. I do remember RR was some sort of fool in the complainers eyes for keeping Ishikawa over Conrand, then became and idiot when Conrad played and was terrible.

 

Hart has now taken over 1B, Aram is at third, Weeks at 2nd, where is Green going to play? It isn't like he is some uber prospect that the team has to get in the lineup. His minor league numbers are remarkably similar to Ishikawa's and Ishikawa has outproduced him at the ML level. If the team finally throws in the towel and admits the playoffs are pipe dream then fine, try to get Green in as much as possible just to see if he can hack it at the ML level but at this point I can't complain about Ishikawa getting some AB's over him.

 

Green should be playing 2B at least part of the time. How long can continue to go with a starter hitting .180? Everyone was wanting Green to replace McGehee last year, but at least McGehee drove in some runs occasionally and the team was winning. They are stuck with Weeks for several more years, but that doesn't mean he has to continue to play every day right now.

[paul253]

Green has done nothing to show he is better than Ishikawa so I don't get the constant complaints or calling RR an idiot for this situation

 

Ishikawa has been given an extended look in the major leagues and failed. Green hasn't. Green probably never had a shot at an extended look once Ramirez was signed, but having him sit on the bench while Travis Ishikawa gets at bats is frustrating to me. Just like I was frustrated watching Gamel rot in the minors the past few years. Just like I'll be frustrated when Fiers and his 2.70 ERA are going to be replaced by Estrada in the rotation and just like I'll be frustrated when Logan Schafer sits on the bench next season so Nyger Morgan or Carlos Gomez can play.

[adambr2]

I have no problem with Estrada, but I have no belief in the old notion that "you can't lose your spot because of injury".

 

I would like to think that guys who get a shot can have some control over their destiny and earn the right to keep that spot, and not have everything decided by the team's pre-determined agenda's.

[MJLiverock]

 

Hart has now taken over 1B, Aram is at third, Weeks at 2nd, where is Green going to play?

 

Let me just show you this, since May 6th, when Green was called up:

Ransom: 9 starts at 2B/3B

Maysonett: 3 starts at 2B

Green: 4 starts at 3B/2B

 

Now, you tell me what is wrong with that situation?

Maysonett's 3 starts at 2nd include one game where Green played third. Also includes a start against LHer Francisco Liriano in which Green came in at 2nd after Liriano was pulled. That leaves only the 05/12 start against the Cubs in which Weeks was hurt the night before where you could complain Maysonet started at 2nd over Green, of course Maysonet hit a Grand Slam so it didn't really hurt anything. One game is hardly anything to get upset over.

 

I can only find 5 instances of Ransom starting at 2B/3B since becoming a Brewer on May 25th or so.

May 26th started at 3B vs. LH pitcher, replaced by Green later in game.

June 6th started at 3B, moved to 2B later in game. LH starter in game.

June 13th started at 3B vs. LH starting pitcher

June 22nd, started at 2B vs. LH starting pitcher

June 24th, started at 3B vs. Lh starting pitcher, later Green came it at 3rd after starting pitcher gone.

 

All I see is that RR has deprived some of calling him idiot for not playing a platoon split in using Green vs. LH pitching.

[monty57]

 

It's right up there with Izturis, Ransom and Ishikawa all being ahead of Green on the depth chart. They've already said Estrada's going to start, so the big question is whether Fiers will be sent to AAA to continue his progression as a starter or if they think they "need his arm in the bullpen" so much that they make him a reliever for the 2012 Brewers.

 

My solace lies in the fact that they just brought Livan in to be the long reliever, which is where I'd see them putting Fiers, so if I had to guess I'd say they're planning on sending Fiers back to the minors.

 

 

Considering Green can't play SS it seems a stretch to wonder why Green doesn't get in there ahead of those two stiffs. Green has done nothing to show he is better than Ishikawa so I don't get the constant complaints or calling RR an idiot for this situation, especially when Ishikawa was on the DL for most of the recent games. I do remember RR was some sort of fool in the complainers eyes for keeping Ishikawa over Conrand, then became and idiot when Conrad played and was terrible.

 

Hart has now taken over 1B, Aram is at third, Weeks at 2nd, where is Green going to play? It isn't like he is some uber prospect that the team has to get in the lineup. His minor league numbers are remarkably similar to Ishikawa's and Ishikawa has outproduced him at the ML level. If the team finally throws in the towel and admits the playoffs are pipe dream then fine, try to get Green in as much as possible just to see if he can hack it at the ML level but at this point I can't complain about Ishikawa getting some AB's over him.

 

As to comparing Green to Izturis and Ransom, I was referring to games where Ramirez sits and Izturis plays SS with Ransom at 3B. If Green was ahead of either of them on the depth chart, then he would play third, while either Izturis or Ransom played SS.

 

In a small sample this year, Ishikawa has outhit Green. However, who has more of a future to the team? If the Brewers have any confidence in Green, and if there is any desire to have him contribute in the future, then I think he should get more playing time. I guess I look at this year and the future, and I can't fault Roenicke too much for only worrying about winning games this year, but Ishikawa hasn't done much in his career to show that he's someone we should bank on long-term.

 

Green may not be an uber-prospect, but he is one of the only decent position prospects we have, and we are in dire need of getting some quality playing time from guys playing for league minimum. If Green never gets a chance to play, we'll never know if he could be someone who can give us quality for league minimum.

 

I apologize for "hijacking" this thread into a Taylor Green thread. That wasn't my intent. I basically just wanted to use Green as an example of another potentially decent prospect who is sitting behind a lesser talented individual(s). To topic, I think Fiers is more talented than Estrada, and I really don't want to see him dumped into a position like Green where his talent is wasted in an "end of the bench" role. Green is now the guy who gets to pinch hit if we go into extra innings, and Fiers would be the long guy who would only pitch if we are up or down a lot of runs and the starter goes less than five innings. In my opinion, neither role is where you want to put a player who may play a significant role in future years.

[Baldkin]

When your choice to play is a guy with a sub .300 career OBP vs LHP.

 

Yes, play the guy who has potential to do better than that.

Both Ransom and Maysonet are both terrible hitters, and have proven that over their MLB and MILB careers. There is no reason for either one of them to play anywhere but SS on this team, but our manager has chosen not to do that.

[MJLiverock]

Look if they play Green it doesn't bother me but I do take issue with the constant complaining that it is some foregone conclusion that Ransom and Maysonet were getting all this playing time at Green's expense. They weren't. Or that Green is some great prospect being held back, his minor league numbers are very similar to Ishikawa's who people call terrible and not ML worthy or a failure (.736 career OPS as a backup player is a failure now). For whatever reason, the team doesn't seem to have faith that Green can hit LH pitching at the ML level, he's had 4 PA's vs. LHers in his time up. Green had a .741 OPS in the minors vs. LH pitching last year.

 

Green has done absolutely nothing at the ML level to force the issue and make the team play him in the whopping 5 times Ransom started at 2nd or 3rd over him. Ransom may well be a .297 career OBP vs. Lh pitching but that is still better than anything Green has done at the ML level and again it was 5 games all vs. LH pitching.

 

I just don't think the manager is an idiot for the decisions in this case. You can quibble with them but it isn't like he had his LOOGY walk Ryan Howard to face Pat Burrell.

[TooLiveBrew]

Or that Green is some great prospect being held back, his minor league numbers are very similar to Ishikawa's who people call terrible and not ML worthy.

 

There's one simple factor that makes Green more valuable, and it's his ability to play 2B & 3B. Ishikawa's bat is bad for MLB because he's a 1B-only player; if Ish could play 2B & 3B this would be a different discussion.