#5 starter

[KCBrewerfan34]

What does it hurt to let Thornberg start a game or two, show the fans the future, we have NOTHING going this year. If Estrada is a 15 day thing TT gets sent back down.

[longball04]

I would like to add a different opinion on all this. With the pick up of Ransom yesterday, the demotion of Maysonet and the transform of Alex to the 60-day, there is no smooth way to bring up Thornburg. People say, "Don't bring him up you will ruin his development." Really, the guy is already 23 and pushing 24. It's not like he is a young 19-21yr old pitcher we are grooming. Sure he hasn't pitched in AAA, but why is that the standard we have to live by? Why not trial by fire. He has 3 solid years of numbers in the minors. Skipping a level means nothing. So you start the arb clock. Big deal. He'll almost be 30 by then. Did we think about that? This team should look to see what gives them the best chance to win. If I was the GM, this is what I would do.

 

1) Designate the amazing Tim Dillard for assignment. Like the guy, but we have better options out there.

2) Move up Thornburg. Let him start a couple games.

3) When Estrada comes back, move him to the bullpen. That is where he is going to provide us with the best benefit. Marco can go through a lineup once just fine. Second time around he turns into Dave Bush.

 

Those are my feelings. You aren't screwing with his development by bringing TT up. He's got major league talent. Why not see what you got? Why wait? The season is by no means over. It's not even June. I look at Marco's injury as a blessing as I think it gives us a chance to see what we have in one fo the 3 guys as a starter (Fiers. Peralta, or TT). Again, just my opinion.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'm hoping Roenicke mentioning Parra is based solely on the fact that he's focusing strictly on his roster and not paying attention to what guys are doing in the system. Melvin needs to assert his authority and advise RR that we've tried this Parra before (many, many, times), and he's a reason Ken Macha is sitting at home.

 

Thornburg has dominated to the degree anyone with a major league arm would dominate hitters in the minors. Spare me the talk about affecting his confidence if he gets beat at the major league level. He's had a few less than stellar starts in the minors too. It happens. Do we want a guy that is that weak mentally as a key guy down the road? Oh, we have one and his name is Manny Parra.

[Invader3K]

I'm hoping Roenicke mentioning Parra is based solely on the fact that he's focusing strictly on his roster and not paying attention to what guys are doing in the system. Melvin needs to assert his authority and advise RR that we've tried this Parra before (many, many, times), and he's a reason Ken Macha is sitting at home.

 

Yup. I don't want to go back to scenes like this:

 

http://mlblogsthemaseplace.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/mp602095b15d1.jpg?w=660&h=440

[longball04]

I'm hoping Roenicke mentioning Parra is based solely on the fact that he's focusing strictly on his roster and not paying attention to what guys are doing in the system. Melvin needs to assert his authority and advise RR that we've tried this Parra before (many, many, times), and he's a reason Ken Macha is sitting at home.

 

Thornburg has dominated to the degree anyone with a major league arm would dominate hitters in the minors. Spare me the talk about affecting his confidence if he gets beat at the major league level. He's had a few less than stellar starts in the minors too. It happens. Do we want a guy that is that weak mentally as a key guy down the road? Oh, we have one and his name is Manny Parra.

Well said. Well said. Parra is weak mentally. He's actually done ok in small 1 inning bursts and technically was one of the more reliable guys out of the pen for a while. Why screw with that? It's not a spot start we're considering. A DL trip means two starts and then a bullpen makeover.

[brettac1]

Parra's a good reliever and a bad starter. So I agree, why screw with it? Not to mention the stamina issues that are already involved with moving a guy from the pen to the rotation in June.

[JohnBriggs12]

Melvin has a horrible track record in these situations. Remember 2006? That's the year they lost Tomo Ohka and Ben Sheets.

 

The first move they made was to take De la Rosa (who'd failed as a starter the previous 2 seasons) out of the pen. The result? An 11.54 ERA in 3 starts. Then they dipped down to AAA, for immortals Zach Jackson (2-2, 5.54 ERA in 7 starts) and Dana Eveland (0-3, 8.51 in 5 starts), and even brought Rick Helling out of the pen for 2 glorious starts (0-2, 13.50 ERA).

 

Finally, they were forced to dip into the AA staff for one Carlos Villanueva. All he did was shut out the Reds for 6 innings in his first major league start. Oh he wasn't ready to be a long term answer, but he was the best option for a temporary solution. Heck they might have done better with Gallardo too, who had dominated in the Florida State league that year before doing the same at Huntsville.

 

That didn't ruin Villanueva who was just 22 at the time. He's still in the big leagues 6 years later.

[jerichoholicninja]

If Para starts we riot.

 

Or something to that effect.

[JohnBriggs12]

If Para starts we riot.

 

Or something to that effect.

 

What happens if they claim Jason Marquis off of waivers?

 

Dave Bush (4-3, 2.73 ERA at AAA) becomes a FA if the Phils don't call him up by June 1. Not sure I want to go down that route, but it would be better than Parra.

[Madtown343]

I think it's a great time for a full make over though.

 

Dillard has no use in the pen as a RHP only. I think knitzler should take his spot.

 

Henderson could be an option as well. (still scoreless) replace Juan Perez.

 

Call up Peralta, fiers or TT as the spot starter.

 

When Marco is back he could take Henderson, knitzler, or parra's bullpen spot or his 5th spot if no one has grabbed hold by then.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Fiers and Thornburg are both starting today, so both will be on their regular day on Tuesday when we need someone. Have to think it'll be one of those two. Mainly because Peralta has been struggling too. I think they have to DL Estrada right away though and call up Henderson or someone else to help out the pen. Then just dump Perez on Tuesday to call-up whoever is taking Estrada's place.

[FVBrewerFan]

Impossible for us to say if Thornburg is "ready." I'm hoping the Brewers know the answer to that better than we do. If he is mentally and physically ready, now would be a good time to bring him up.

 

Otherwise, I have no problem with Fiers. Not a whole lot to lose the way thise season has been going. Good chance to see if Fiers is an option for the rotation next year or not.

 

Peralta clearly needs to get some things worked out, I definitely wouldn't bring him up. All I see are the numbers, but there must be something wrong with his location, his stuff, or both.

 

Parra would be something I could live with. He hasn't been givena chance to start consistently for a while, maybe he can get the job done. First to admit, he has been incredibly frustrating throughout his career but having a LH in the rotation not namesd Wolf next year would be nice.

[JohnBriggs12]

OMG, Melvin is quoted by TH on his blog today that he's concerned about having to add Thornburg to the 40 man a year before he'd have to. Seriously, the GM is concerned that somehow bringing up Thornburg now will cause his options to be burned prematurely? How long do we have to live with a GM that views every decision regarding a young pitcher in the context of Jorge De la Rosa? It's the reason they stuck with Parra forever and now it affects his decision regarding a soon to be 24 year old?

 

Would you get over De la Rosa Doug?

[PrinceEatMeat]

OMG, Melvin is quoted by TH on his blog today that he's concerned about having to add Thornburg to the 40 man a year before he'd have to. Seriously, the GM is concerned that somehow bringing up Thornburg now will cause his options to be burned prematurely? How long do we have to live with a GM that views every decision regarding a young pitcher in the context of Jorge De la Rosa? It's the reason they stuck with Parra forever and now it affects his decision regarding a soon to be 24 year old?

 

Would you get over De la Rosa Doug?

 

I agree, that logic is ridiculous. If he's the best guy for the job then just call him up. There's absolutely no good reason not to. If they think he can handle the job now better than someone else then he should get the call, plain and simple.

[JohnBriggs12]

FVBrewerfan,

 

Parra hasn't been given a chance to start consistently for a while because in 74 major league starts he sports an ERA of 5.44 and a WHIP of 1.692.

 

As the saying goes, the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

[RockCoCougars]

If Thornburg is ready he's ready, lots of pitchers skip AAA. I would hope that they end up making the best move for the team, not the best move to preserve 'cost control'. Bottom line, if Thornburg actually turns out good enough to worry about service time down the line, that will be a good problem to have.

[Thurston Fluff]

How long do we have to live with a GM that views every decision regarding a young pitcher in the context of Jorge De la Rosa?

 

I think what happened to De la Rosa is a prime example of why you don't waste an option for what might turn out to be a couple starts. I think a lot of people are getting ahead of themselves with the prospects. Hell a month ago Peralta was being looked at as major league ready now. That was based on mostly AA numbers with 5 AAA starts last season. Trying to judge players on one season of play above A level is a really bad idea IMHO. Especially if that came mostly at AA. I like seeing players get at least a full season of AAA and am not opposed to them going back and playing again until needed.

[PrinceEatMeat]

How long do we have to live with a GM that views every decision regarding a young pitcher in the context of Jorge De la Rosa?

 

I think what happened to De la Rosa is a prime example of why you don't waste an option for what might turn out to be a couple starts. I think a lot of people are getting ahead of themselves with the prospects. Hell a month ago Peralta was being looked at as major league ready now. That was based on mostly AA numbers with 5 AAA starts last season. Trying to judge players on one season of play above A level is a really bad idea IMHO. Especially if that came mostly at AA. I like seeing players get at least a full season of AAA and am not opposed to them going back and playing again until needed.

 

I agree that Thornburg probably should just stay in the minors unless he's going to just stay in the rotation the rest of the season. For a few starts it may not be worth it to go with him over Fiers or Peralta. If he came up and stayed as the #5 starter, then it would be worth it. Still have to do what's best for the team though. It'll be interesting to see what they choose to do.

[TooLiveBrew]

OMG, Melvin is quoted by TH on his blog today that he's concerned about having to add Thornburg to the 40 man a year before he'd have to. Seriously, the GM is concerned that somehow bringing up Thornburg now will cause his options to be burned prematurely? How long do we have to live with a GM that views every decision regarding a young pitcher in the context of Jorge De la Rosa? It's the reason they stuck with Parra forever and now it affects his decision regarding a soon to be 24 year old?

 

Would you get over De la Rosa Doug?

If the plan is to only have a guy come up for a couple starts, then I absolutely don't want to see it be Thornburg. The plan should be to call up Thornburg & let him fly, but since Doug Melvin's running the show, that's not going to happen.

 

Mike Fiers spot-starts, & going back to Estrada starts, here we come! Brewers Fever! Catch the sensation!

[FVBrewerFan]

FVBrewerfan,

 

Parra hasn't been given a chance to start consistently for a while because in 74 major league starts he sports an ERA of 5.44 and a WHIP of 1.692.

 

As the saying goes, the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

I agree, and use that line myself! That's why I said I would prefer Thorny or Fiers. My point was, I wouldn't fly off the handle if they let Parra start. Doesn't even have to be for the rest of the year.

 

It's just that I see no harm in letting him start a couple times. Maybe he's matured, maybe he now understands how to get through a lineup 3 times. So while he wouldn't be my first choice, would be interesting to see if he's figured it out, or if he is the same old Parra as a starter.

 

It's just that as set as the rotation was the last two seasons, that's how unsettled it is for next year. We have Yo and probably Thornburg. The rest is up in the air. If Parra, Fiers, or Estrada are the anser at all as the #5 starter, would be nice to find that out this season.

[Invader3K]

Apparently Melvin already said earlier today that Thornburg isn't being considered right now.

[RockCoCougars]

I certainly hope that they don't mess around with Parra at this stage, just when he is appearing to be a serviceable major leaguer for the first time in years. If they do, they should know what they are getting into... I don't want to hear any excuses about him being 'stretched out' or 'adjustment to a new role' (either when being moved into the rotation or back to the pen).

 

In a nutshell, don't mess with something that isn't broken.

[TooLiveBrew]

Good ol' Doug -- there's a reason everyone's been calling him "The Creative Canuck" for years now...

[bjkrautk]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/153619655.html

 

For what it's worth, Estrada is only expected to miss 3-4 starts.

 

My gut says Fiers, barring a blow-up tonight in AAA. (He's already in an option year, since he's on the 40-man. Plus, as a soon-to-be 27-year-old without minimal service time, he'd be in his 30s before the club is out of options, and in his mid 30s before he hits free agency.)

[Dnye23]

For the love of God, please don't let it be Parra. I would really like to see Peralta get the opportunity to start a few games. I know he hasn't been at his best lately and his walk rate is unaaceptable, but he does have a decent K/9.