If we sell, what are the pieces to sell?

[monty57]

That said, there is no way that Marcum will come cheap. Barring major injury or extended playoff-esque meltdown, he's going to get a three or four year deal for eight figures per, easy.

 

Agreed, which is why someone would trade for him. I can't believe that GM's would line up to sign Marcum to a 4 year / $50MM deal, but no one would want him for a playoff run. What I was saying (maybe poorly) in the sentence you quoted was that if the market is so down on him that no one would trade for him, then he ought to be able to be signed cheaply and we should jump on that. I don't think that's the case.

 

I've said before that I would be leery of signing Marcum to a 4- or 5-year deal, but I'd say that about pretty much any pitcher on the other side of 30. If Greinke was 30, I wouldn't want to sign him to a 4- or 5-year deal either. I wish Melvin would've extended Marcum this offseason when the price tag would've been cheaper and the years fewer due to how he ended last year. Now that he's pitching well, he's sure to go to free agency and sign a big money deal.

 

Really, the reasons Greinke is valued so highly are that he had one year that was one of the best years by any pitcher in recent history, and he strikes batters out. He will probably be paid as if he pitched every year like he did in 2009, but that isn't the case. Someone will pay for a 1A+ and get a 1B/2A. But, sometimes perception becomes reality, and if Melvin can get someone to believe that he is trading for Cy Young, then we should take advantage of that.

[Bnowell4evr]

Teams need 5 OFers, the Brewers have 5 OFers. That is not an excess.

 

But they don't necessarily need 5 that can be considered every day players. And I didn't mention the guys in AAA that could conceivably be ready at some point next year too in Schafer, Gindl and/or Khris Davis. If you have a guy on the bench (Aoki) that can play just as well, if not better than the guy ahead of him on the depth chart (Morgan) what is the point in keeping Morgan?

 

Because we can't get close to equal value for a guy who's hitting well below his career average and has the type of character concerns that teams refuse to touch? Why would you get rid of a guy for nothing when he's worth far more to our team than the junk we would get in return?

[nate82]

Why would a team give up Major League ready talent for Marcum? Wouldn't they just use said Major League talent?

 

1. Because the team wants to either make the playoffs or make a push in the playoffs. A team may also see that Marcum is someone that they want to be their #3 starter for the playoff run. I could see the Dodgers, Rangers, Angels, Yankees, Orioles, Red Sox, White Sox, and the Tigers all being in on Marcum. There will probably be more teams interested in trading for Marcum than there will be for Greinke.

 

2. Yes they could but are these major league talent pitchers or position players? Is the major league talent better than Marcum right now? There is a lot of questions that would need to be answered before anyone could even answer your second question.

 

I believe Marcum is going to be the one that gets traded as he will bring in enough value to trade him away. The team holding onto a potential rental still has an advantage in they could just keep the player and take the draft picks. I am not sure the Brewers should do this with Marcum as it is a very risky move to do.

 

I still like the Dodgers as a favorite for getting Marcum in a trade and I also like the Yankees as a possible fit.

 

I wonder if the Giants would trade Pablo Sandoval for Corey Hart? It looks as though Sandoval maybe working his way out of the Giants organization. I know the Giants OF is rather crowded but Hart would be a major improvement over Schierholtz and Blanco. Sandoval would give the Brewers a 1B this year and for the next few years. It will also give the Brewers a deeper bench in 2013 with Gamel possibly being able to be moved to the OF. I don't believe the Giants will do this but if Sandoval comes out sluggish when he returns from the DL I could see the Giants trying to find a trade for Sandoval.

[paul253]

Why would you get rid of a guy for nothing when he's worth far more to our team than the junk we would get in return?

Because we already have three guys that can play his position (two on the current roster and one in AAA). And at this point I question how much he is actually worth to this team. You don't always have to trade someone only to get a top prospect in return. You can also trade them to open a spot for someone else. In this case it would be Aoki, whom I think has more than earned a full time job. What are going to do next year when everyone is healthy again? Throw Schafer back in AAA so he can follow Gamel and Green's career path? Keep Aoki as your fifth option in the outfield?

 

You may ask what good trading him does. I ask what good keeping him does. Even when his trade value is "high" you aren't going to get much for him. But you never know. You could get lucky and nab a minor leaguer who turns into a decent bullpen option in the future. I just see no reason to keep him anymore.

[RockCoCougars]

What are going to do next year when everyone is healthy again?

 

Yes, but what do you do if the outfield becomes the injury minefield next year that the infield is this year? Bring back Corey Patterson and Jason Bourgeous? I see no reason to trade Morgan for minor league fodder. If we've learned anything this season, it's that depth is a good (and often neglected) thing.

[paul253]

Logan Schafer. Caleb Gindl. Khris Davis. This on top of Aoki, Hart, Braun and Gomez.

[monty57]

From MLBTradeRumors:

 

"Rival teams say the Dodgers are looking for a starter, a lefty reliever and a bat."

 

As is typical with the Dodgers, they have some interesting pitching prospects. Their #2 prospect, Nate Eovaldi, is up now while Lilly's out (pitched against the Brewers) and has an upper-90's fastball. He's a Top 100 prospect, but not an "elite" prospect, so he may be a realistic target for Marcum/Greinke. He could step right into the rotation now and stay there for the next five years.

 

Zach Lee is their top prospect, but he's probably two years out. He's having a bit of a tough time in High-A, with a 4.37 ERA, 1.27 WHIP and 7 HR, but he's got 49 K and only 9 BB in 47.1 IP.

[adambr2]

I'd trade Marcum for Eovaldi straight up in a heartbeat. I don't think the Dodgers would.

[paul253]

I'm starting to get really nervous about the future of this team. I have to be careful to make I say this correctly so the entire board doesn't jump on me, so here goes:

 

This team is not a playoff team. They just aren't. Almost 40% of the season is over and we've got the 5th worst record in the league. They have the 4th worst team ERA in the league and the 3rd worst team BA in the league. But they are only 5.5 games out of first. I almost wish a team like Cincy or Pitt would take off so Mark and Doug would get the idea out of their head that they can compete for the division. If they are only 4 or 5 games out at the deadline with this roster, they'd either have to be buyers or at the very least stand pat.

 

They can't be serious contenders with Weeks hitting .160 and Cody Ransom playing shortstop every day. So they'd have to upgrade the SS position and probably strengthen the bench some. That means trading away even more prospects. Who do you trade? Schafer? Gindl? Khris Davis? Hunter Morris? No thanks.

 

If they stand pat they lose the best trading chip they've had in years (Greinke) plus at least one other guy they should be able to get a decent return for (Marcum). While the system is improved, it still has a ways to go. Trading these two could really help the future of the franchise.

 

So while I'm not exactly cheering for them to lose, I almost kind of wish someone else would take command of the division so the front office can focus on the future instead of trading away even more in a last ditch effort to make the playoffs.

[jerichoholicninja]

Whether selling or buying I would trade Marcum. Trade him for prospects or trade him for help this year. I would really prefer not to resign him.

[Raw Biz]

Whether selling or buying I would trade Marcum. Trade him for prospects or trade him for help this year. I would really prefer not to resign him.

 

Marcum has done really well in his 9 or whatever months here, except for about 6 weeks. Yes those 6 weeks were the most crucial but we most likely don't make the playoffs without him. I don't want to resign him for 4 or whatever years but I wouldn't mind having him again for next year. I'd rather keep him and offer him the new arby. If he takes it, we have a good pitcher for another year. If he doesn't, we get more high draft picks. I think keeping him for another year/the draft picks are worth more than anything he would bring back for a half season.

[jerichoholicninja]

Whether selling or buying I would trade Marcum. Trade him for prospects or trade him for help this year. I would really prefer not to resign him.

 

Marcum has done really well in his 9 or whatever months here, except for about 6 weeks. Yes those 6 weeks were the most crucial but we most likely don't make the playoffs without him. I don't want to resign him for 4 or whatever years but I wouldn't mind having him again for next year. I'd rather keep him and offer him the new arby. If he takes it, we have a good pitcher for another year. If he doesn't, we get more high draft picks. I think keeping him for another year/the draft picks are worth more than anything he would bring back for a half season.

 

I'm in no way in the Marcum sucks camp. I think he' pretty good actually. I just feel he won't be worth whatever long term contract he could potentially sign and he has enough value to trade and get something really good in return.

[monty57]

I think keeping him for another year/the draft picks are worth more than anything he would bring back for a half season.

 

That's the key. If we decide to sell, we need to figure out who we would be willing to offer the one-year deal to after the season. I think that's Greinke and Marcum, so we should not trade either of them for less than the value of the draft picks (minus the signing bonus cost).

 

For players like K-Rod, Loe, Veras, etc, we're losing them for nothing, so the value in return just has to be better than the value of having the player on the team for the rest of the year. If we could get someone who could be a bench bat or middle reliever for a few seasons, or if we could get a high-risk/high-reward A-baller, we should do the deal. Again, this is only if we decide to sell. Who knows, saving $6MM or so by unloading K-Rod, Loe & Veras may be what allows us to afford someone decent this offseason.

[paul253]

I am the only one thinking people are severely underestimating Greinke's value? He is 7-2 with a sub 3 era and 89ks in 79 innings. Of his 13 starts, 10 have been quality starts (would have been 11 if he could have lasted 2/3 of an inning longer in another start). I realize that the team who trades for him won't get picks but really if they are trading for Greinke they are doing so because they feel they can win the World Series. Is not getting two draft picks really going to reduce his value all that much? Look at what we gave up for half a season of Sabathia. Our top prospect, a top 10 prospect AND two pitchers.

 

I think we can get a legitimate #1-#2 potential pitching prospect or a potential future all star position player prospect. I think the value will be much higher than a mid-late first round pick and a supplemental round pick.

[nate82]

Who knows, saving $6MM or so by unloading K-Rod, Loe & Veras may be what allows us to afford someone decent this offseason.

 

I am not sure there are any decent free agents this coming off season. There are going to be a few players who are probably going to cost way more than they are worth Erick Aybar comes to mind here and Josh Hamilton will probably not be healthy for the majority of his contract that he signs and B.J. Upton is another player like Aybar who I believe is going to get paid more than he is worth. Both Greinke and Hamels will probably be out of the price range for the Brewers though I am not sure about Greinke but Hamels will definitely be out of the Brewers price range.

 

Greinke is very interesting this off season as I don't see the big market clubs going after him. I don't see the Red Sox going after Greinke and I don't think the Yankees will have interest either as they have some young starters that they can put into the rotation next year and if Hughes continues to pitch well the Yankees will have their rotation set. I just don't see the Yankees giving out another big contract to a pitcher as they already have Sabathia as their ace and already have some good #3, 4, and 5 pitchers. If healthy Pineda is a cheaper #2 that they can go with over Greinke. The Orioles are probably the biggest threat to signing Greinke and I also don't see the Cubs going after Greinke as they are not even close to being ready yet. If Greinke were a FA and the Cubs were already in year 3 or 4 of the rebuilding phase then yeah I believe the Cubs would be a strong contender for Greinke but not right now.

 

I still believe the Rangers are going to go hard after Greinke especially with Holland going down recently and if Feliz or Holland are not able to return to the rotation there is going to be an extreme need for the Rangers to go out and get someone like Greinke.

[monty57]

I am the only one thinking people are severely underestimating Greinke's value? He is 7-2 with a sub 3 era and 89ks in 79 innings. Of his 13 starts, 10 have been quality starts (would have been 11 if he could have lasted 2/3 of an inning longer in another start). I realize that the team who trades for him won't get picks but really if they are trading for Greinke they are doing so because they feel they can win the World Series. Is not getting two draft picks really going to reduce his value all that much? Look at what we gave up for half a season of Sabathia. Our top prospect, a top 10 prospect AND two pitchers.

 

I think we can get a legitimate #1-#2 potential pitching prospect or a potential future all star position player prospect. I think the value will be much higher than a mid-late first round pick and a supplemental round pick.

 

I've said that I believe we'll get better than the comp pick value in return. A return better than our top two draft picks this year would be pretty good. I think there's a shot he could land a top 10 prospect, but it would probably take the perfect situation (why I've mentioned Texas already having a good, young SS on the MLB team and having lost the last two World Series so maybe they're really, really eager to win one). Even if he can't bring back an "elite" prospect, I think he could absolutely bring a Top 50 prospect back from a team vying for a playoff spot. Top 50 could equate to a top of the rotation starter or All-Star caliber position player. If it's closer to #50 than #10, he may even bring another very good prospect.

 

I still think that if we could add several Top 100 prospects (hopefully a good young SP or two and a good young SS) in trade for Greinke, Marcum, K-Rod, and Hart then we have a chance at being competitive in the coming years. If we hold tight and "go for it" this year, I don't see us being competitive for a while.

[adamds22]

What I would like to see is trade Greinke and/or Marcum with the hopes of returning at the very least a top SS prospect (Profar(rangers), Machado(Orioles), Segura(angels), Hamilton(reds), Hak-Ju Lee(rays)). Bring up Thorny/Peralta to replace the arm that we lose and I honestly don't think we are much worse than we already are. Maybe a few wins but you replace the anemic SS options we have now. If we trade anyone we almost have to get a SS in return, we have nothing ready to come up (unless they give Bianchi a shot) and there isn't much out there available in FA.

 

That gives the younger guys some experience under their belt going into next season and I'm not 100% sure how the whole service time thing goes but I think by the time we trade either pitcher it would be past the point where it would change their arby eligibility if we wait to bring them up till next year.

 

I think everyone here agrees at the VERY least one of Greinke, Marcum, Wolf is gone next year. We can't rely on Narveson coming back 100% so we are going to have some major holes to fill in the rotation. We've already discussed that we have a lot of big contracts on the books for next year so rather than Melvin and Co. "going for it" next year and breaking the bank on some old FA starter or two to fill in the gap, we bring in a Thorny/Peralta/Fiers/Estrada/Narv to fill out the rotation and rather than getting their first major league start next year, trade the pitchers who won't be keeping next year and plug our in-house guys into the rotation now to see what we have.

[Raw Biz]

I think tonight seals it for me that now is the time to start looking into offers for Greinke, Marcum, KRod, Hart, etc. Basically field offers for everyone. Obviously they have to be good (or even great in some cases) returns. I wouldn't trade anyone just to get rid of them (minus guys like Conrad, Ishikawa, Izturis, Maysonet, etc.) but the Brewers this year are just not a playoff team.

 

I think they had a really good shot at the beginning of the year but then injuries happened to positions where we didn't have the depth and some key guys we counted on have just sucked. Even with a weaker division and not being technically out of it, I still don't think they would be able to compete with other playoff-caliber teams. Now is the time to maximize returns and seriously look into selling off some pieces. Maybe hold off until early July to actually pull the trigger (so teams will know whether they are still truly in it or not) but it wouldn't hurt to get names out there and see what potential returns will be.

 

I might actually be upset if they don't become sellers because I know this team just doesn't have the talent this year to compete and I'd hate to lose the chance to improve the club because we thought we might have a chance to maybe make the playoffs. Again, not advocating trades just for the sake of trading but I really think Greinke could bring back an all-star prospect. Draft picks are nice but so are stud prospects closer to the majors.

[monty57]

I think tonight seals it for me that now is the time to start looking into offers for Greinke, Marcum, KRod, Hart, etc. Basically field offers for everyone. Obviously they have to be good (or even great in some cases) returns. I wouldn't trade anyone just to get rid of them (minus guys like Conrad, Ishikawa, Izturis, Maysonet, etc.) but the Brewers this year are just not a playoff team.

 

I think they had a really good shot at the beginning of the year but then injuries happened to positions where we didn't have the depth and some key guys we counted on have just sucked. Even with a weaker division and not being technically out of it, I still don't think they would be able to compete with other playoff-caliber teams. Now is the time to maximize returns and seriously look into selling off some pieces. Maybe hold off until early July to actually pull the trigger (so teams will know whether they are still truly in it or not) but it wouldn't hurt to get names out there and see what potential returns will be.

 

I might actually be upset if they don't become sellers because I know this team just doesn't have the talent this year to compete and I'd hate to lose the chance to improve the club because we thought we might have a chance to maybe make the playoffs. Again, not advocating trades just for the sake of trading but I really think Greinke could bring back an all-star prospect. Draft picks are nice but so are stud prospects closer to the majors.

 

Welcome aboard. We still have plenty of seats open, but I bet we'll be filling up quickly.

[3and2Fastball]

If the Dodgers are looking for pitching, trade them Wolf. I say that because I really really don't like the Dodgers.

 

Anyways....

[Dollarbill13]

I wonder if Washington would make a run at Greinke (either in FA or at the trade deadline). It might make sense for them to trade for him if they are, in fact, serious about Strasburg's innings cap. That would be a sick rotation.

[paul253]

I'd like to see Greinke moved at the all star break. A rotation of Gallardo, Wolf, Fiers, Estrada and Marcum would be painful but it's a necessary move until our other arms are ready. I also think you move Thornburg and Nelson up to Nashville and Huntsville respectively.....soon.

 

I'd also explore a trade of Marcum. If you can't get a decent return for him I say you keep him, offer him the one year at the end of the season and hope he turns it down so you can get two draft picks.

 

Finally, I'd really like to see them move Hart. Aoki can handle right field and hopefully next season Gindl claims the position with Aoki replacing Morgan in center.

 

But no, this team is not a playoff contender and the sooner Mark and Doug realize that the better.

[monty57]

I'd also explore a trade of Marcum. If you can't get a decent return for him I say you keep him, offer him the one year at the end of the season and hope he turns it down so you can get two draft picks.

 

Marcum is an interesting case. Greinke's "stuff" is sexier, and he's got a Cy Young on his shelf, so someone will offer us a lot of young talent for him. Probably far more than the draft picks would be worth. Meanwhile, Marcum has been just as good as Greinke has for the past couple of seasons, but since he's not as "sexy," he might not bring enough in trade to justify trading him. If teams don't offer much for him, I'd definitely offer him the one-year deal, as I'd be happy to have him on a one-year, $13MM deal, or I'd be happy with the extra draft picks.

 

Wolf is another interesting case. He has bad numbers this year, but mostly from April (6.84 ERA in 5 starts). He has been better lately (3.20 ERA in 3 June starts) and has enough history that someone may be willing to trade for him. His option could be a bonus (they'd be trading for 1.5 years of service) or a negative if they plan on buying out the option. The "interesting part" is that if he continues to pitch well enough that another team would want him, we may want to retain him for next year when we'll need starting pitchers. However if he pitches poorly enough that we'd buy out the option, no one would want to trade for him.

 

Personally, I'd put every one of our MLB players except Braun, Lucroy and probably Gallardo on the market and see what other teams would offer. If we get enough offered, make the trade.

[paul253]

I'd even be willing put Gallardo up, with the expectation that we only get a major league ready #1-#2 potential pitcher AND more. I'd trade him for Jacob Turner and Nick Castellanos, for instance. With his talent plus his contract a team would have to pay a ton to get him. But as another poster mentioned Latos brought back 2 really good major league ready prospect and an arm to put in the rotation. If we can get that for Gallardo I may do it.

[Oldcity]

It's to the point now where I'll probably be disappointed if they don't blow it up. They have a big opportunity to set the team up for the next several years, or get themselves stuck in mediocrity.