Countdown to Brett Lawrie Suspension (Suspended for four games: reply #45)

[trwi7]

He should be suspended but so should the umpire.

[Funketown]

That's a game fewer than Hamels got for admitting he hit Harper intentionally. He got off incredibly easy. It's somewhat surprising he didn't get at least 5, which I thought was somewhat standard.

[jjfanec]

That's a game fewer than Hamels got for admitting he hit Harper intentionally. He got off incredibly easy. It's somewhat surprising he didn't get at least 5, which I thought was somewhat standard.

 

To be fair I think MLB views Hamels' suspension as a one game suspension since he really only missed one start. That said I agree he got off easy

[GamelToe]

That's a game fewer than Hamels got for admitting he hit Harper intentionally. He got off incredibly easy. It's somewhat surprising he didn't get at least 5, which I thought was somewhat standard.

Pitchers' starts are measured in increments of 5 for obvious reasons.

 

Also, comparing Delmon Young to this situation is beyond silly. Young hurled a bat at an umpire. Lawrie threw his helmet on the ground and it nicked the umpire. Big difference.

 

 

And I'm hardly a Lawrie fan.

[M Skjellyfetti]

If you watch the home plate ump's mouth he says the words "expletive kid" to Lawrie before he even throws his helmet. This was definitely an ump trying to

"teach the rookie a lesson". What Lawrie did was terrible and he should be suspended, whether his helmet hit the ump or not, but the umpire should be disciplined as well.

 

I'm 99% sure what you are referencing occurs after he gets hit by the helmet. The ump doesn't really have time to say anything because he tosses him, is looking away for an instant, then gets hit, looks startled, and says *that*, after being hit by the helmet. This makes a huge difference, IMO, and it casts serious doubt on the storyline you are suggesting "definitely" happened. I don't understand how people can claim that it's not fair to judge Lawrie's intent based on the results while it is fair game to judge the umpire's intent with less evidence to support that case.

[DHonks]

wow, I think I'm the only one, but that called 3rd strike looked like a strike to me. It was just above the belt and it was right on the edge of the plate. If that was the Toronto pitcher throwing that and it had been called a ball, the whole crowd would have erupted at the umpire.

 

It was a borderline call. It's easy to dislike Lawrie given what we've read of him, and this was disrespectful. I think the biggest mistake in the whole thing is with MLB. Lawrie should have gotten 15 games....10 for his actions (blatantly throwing helmet at umpire then charging him violently) and 5 for being a douchebag

[jerichoholicninja]

If you watch the home plate ump's mouth he says the words "expletive kid" to Lawrie before he even throws his helmet. This was definitely an ump trying to

"teach the rookie a lesson". What Lawrie did was terrible and he should be suspended, whether his helmet hit the ump or not, but the umpire should be disciplined as well.

 

I'm 99% sure what you are referencing occurs after he gets hit by the helmet. The ump doesn't really have time to say anything because he tosses him, is looking away for an instant, then gets hit, looks startled, and says *that*, after being hit by the helmet. This makes a huge difference, IMO, and it casts serious doubt on the storyline you are suggesting "definitely" happened. I don't understand how people can claim that it's not fair to judge Lawrie's intent based on the results while it is fair game to judge the umpire's intent with less evidence to support that case.

 

After watching it again you are right it was after he threw his helmet. However I feel calling him "blanking kid" shows a total lack of professionalism on the umpire.

[yfinn6]

I'd imagine it could be difficult to remain 100% professional when someone spikes a batting helmet in your general area and it grazes you.

[DHonks]

Lawrie blatantly threw it at the ump. I've seen people slam helmets and it never has looked like they are winding up to uncork a throw. Additionally, it didn't "nick" the umpire. It was slammed at him at full speed and it hits him pretty hard. If a student threw something like that at a teacher in a school, it would probably be a 2-week at home suspension with no makeup work.

[3and2Fastball]

On the radio tonight Bob Uecker said he thought it should've been a 10 game suspension.

[Invader3K]

If this four game suspension gets cut down at all, it's a total joke.

[Crew2323]

wow, I think I'm the only one, but that called 3rd strike looked like a strike to me. It was just above the belt and it was right on the edge of the plate. If that was the Toronto pitcher throwing that and it had been called a ball, the whole crowd would have erupted at the umpire.

 

It was a borderline call. It's easy to dislike Lawrie given what we've read of him, and this was disrespectful. I think the biggest mistake in the whole thing is with MLB. Lawrie should have gotten 15 games....10 for his actions (blatantly throwing helmet at umpire then charging him violently) and 5 for being a douchebag

 

There is a side angle to the called third strike, and it is clearly above the letters. Not only that, it was outside. It wasn't close to a strike. View this video at about the 1 minute mark.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=21468797&topic_id=8878984&c_id=tor&tcid=vpp_copy_21468797&v=3

[jjfanec]

wow, I think I'm the only one, but that called 3rd strike looked like a strike to me. It was just above the belt and it was right on the edge of the plate. If that was the Toronto pitcher throwing that and it had been called a ball, the whole crowd would have erupted at the umpire.

 

It was a borderline call. It's easy to dislike Lawrie given what we've read of him, and this was disrespectful. I think the biggest mistake in the whole thing is with MLB. Lawrie should have gotten 15 games....10 for his actions (blatantly throwing helmet at umpire then charging him violently) and 5 for being a douchebag

 

There is a side angle to the called third strike, and it is clearly above the letters. Not only that, it was outside. It wasn't close to a strike. View this video at about the 1 minute mark.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=21468797&topic_id=8878984&c_id=tor&tcid=vpp_copy_21468797&v=3

 

 

Is it a strike if it is at the letters when the batter is in his crouch or where the letters would be if he is standing straight up? It is just above (actually crosses at the top of the letters in the video you gave). I dont know how specific the letters are to being the top of the strike zone but it did cross at the top of the letters - the way top mind you but the top nonetheless. Now I am not sure if it was well off the plate. Was it a bad call - sure, but was it one of the worst 3rd strikes I have ever seen called or not called - nope.

[MJLiverock]

4 or 5 games was enough for me. I don't see that he threw the helmet at the ump at all, he turns around and spikes it pretty much straight down or as straight down as you can when spiking something and not hitting your own feet. It hit the ump on a bounce, I doubt he had some sort of thought in that instance of intentionally bouncing it into the ump, I doubt he even really had a rational thought at all in that instance.

 

Both calls were horrible, that third strike was high and outside, probably as much outside as the 2nd called strike.

 

Lawrie over reacted but the ump clearly knew he was calling that pitch a strike no matter where it was. Saying the ump should be excused for calling him a expletive kid because he was caught up in the moment of being hit by a bouncing helmet is no better than excusing Lawrie for jumping and screaming at a terrible call. The umps are supposed to be composed and handle a tantrum, not to mention not letting their personal feeling influence their calling of the game which I think he clearly did when he called that third strike just because he didn't like Lawrie heading to 1st on the bad call on strike 2.

 

I don't think they should reduce Lawrie's suspension either. The should just make him watch his antics on a loop for about 5 minutes without saying a word to him and then just say, appeal denied, and walk out.

[Baldkin]

4 or 5 games was enough for me. I don't see that he threw the helmet at the ump at all, he turns around and spikes it pretty much straight down or as straight down as you can when spiking something and not hitting your own feet. It hit the ump on a bounce, I doubt he had some sort of thought in that instance of intentionally bouncing it into the ump, I doubt he even really had a rational thought at all in that instance.

 

I'll post this again:

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1069299/Lawrie-Smash.gif

 

He turns around, takes 4 steps towards the ump, rips off his helmet and throws it right at the ump's feet. He didn't just spike it in the heat of the moment. Blanking out and acting like a 4 year old who doesn't get his way is not a valid excuse for doing anything like that.

[jjfanec]

4 or 5 games was enough for me. I don't see that he threw the helmet at the ump at all, he turns around and spikes it pretty much straight down or as straight down as you can when spiking something and not hitting your own feet. It hit the ump on a bounce, I doubt he had some sort of thought in that instance of intentionally bouncing it into the ump, I doubt he even really had a rational thought at all in that instance.

 

I'll post this again:

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1069299/Lawrie-Smash.gif

 

He turns around, takes 4 steps towards the ump, rips off his helmet and throws it right at the ump's feet. He didn't just spike it in the heat of the moment. Blanking out and acting like a 4 year old who doesn't get his way is not a valid excuse for doing anything like that.

 

Thank you! It was obviously a blown call and probably vindictive on the umps part, so MLB can fine him or whatever. However, I just dont see how anyone can say he didnt throw his helmet at the umpire. He didnt throw it at his chest but he definitely threw it in his direction. I dont know if the intent was to scare, hit, whatever, but he threw the helmet at the umpire. That clip makes that obvious.

 

What I really dislike about the discussion surrounding this incident is that people (not saying anyone here but people I have read or to whom I have talked) are trying to act like Lawrie's actions are somewhat justified because the call was bad. There a lot of bad calls each year and we see incidents like this only a small proportion of the time. Lawrie looked like a tool and if that is what it looks like to have passion I hope none of our guys have passion like that

[pete]

MLB doesn't really do much to umps. I believe they are allowed 8 pitches outside what is considered a good pitch which is greater than the strike zone in order to get a passing grade. Those with better grades get to work the playoffs. That really didn't work last season.

 

I don't think people are saying that what he did is justified, just that the unprofessional umpiring triggered it.

 

He threw his helmet at the ground.

[Funketown]

Lawrie is dropping his appeal. It must have been scheduled during Happy Hour.

[bani1717]

...or during his league-ordered anger management session

[pete]

I thought of when Prince and Wally Bell went at it watching him umpire last night. I wonder if they joke about it now.

 

Also Jose Altuve looked like a lawn ornament next to Bell.

[topper09er]

However, I just dont see how anyone can say he didnt throw his helmet at the umpire.

 

I think from the video it is obvious he threw his helmet at the ground. If he wanted to throw his helmet at the umpire I think he has a good enough arm to hit him directly with it. Once it bounces on the ground no one knows where it is going. He was mad because the ump obviously called him out for "showing him up" on the previous horrible call and Lawrie knew it.

[dlk9s]

Look, he didn't throw it "at" the ump, but he certainly didn't try to miss him. If he wanted to throw his helmet in anger and not hit the ump, he could have easily thrown it straight down before charging at the ump or turned and whipped it down the line somewhere. He aggressively charged the ump and threw it towards him, but at the ground. He knew there was a chance the helmet would hit him - it was done for intimidation and if it hit the ump, so be it.

[M Skjellyfetti]

For what it's worth, after watching that video, I'm not so convinced "(expletive) kid" is what the umpire was yelling. It looks like he is saying more words than just that, and from trying to read his lips, I can't find a way that "(expletive) kid" makes sense with whatever else he is saying. I guess what I'm saying is that these attitudes toward the ump are completely based on conjecture--related to what we believe he was thinking when calling the strikes and related to what we believe he is saying (there's no way to tell for certain).

[jjfanec]

However, I just dont see how anyone can say he didnt throw his helmet at the umpire.

 

I think from the video it is obvious he threw his helmet at the ground. If he wanted to throw his helmet at the umpire I think he has a good enough arm to hit him directly with it. Once it bounces on the ground no one knows where it is going. He was mad because the ump obviously called him out for "showing him up" on the previous horrible call and Lawrie knew it.

 

Yes he threw it at the ground. I said that in my post. Here is my quote "He didnt throw it at his chest but he definitely threw it in his direction. I dont know if the intent was to scare, hit, whatever, but he threw the helmet at the umpire. That clip makes that obvious."

 

He definitely chose to throw it right at the ground in front of the ump. Yeah you dont know where it is going to go when it bounce but if you throw it directly at his feet while you are charging toward him probability is high it will hit him. I just dont see the need to rationalize either person in this incident. The ump made a bad call that seemed to have a vindictive quality to it and Lawrie acted like a tool and chucked his helmet at the ground right in front of the ump. Two professionals not acting professional at all.

 

It just is funny the me how comments here and on articles are trying to act like what Lawrie did wasnt a big deal because the call was bad. Deal with it kid. I lost a sporting event on what others told me was one of the worst calls they had ever scene and at 17 I was able to handle my emotions even though I was ticked and it cost me a chance to go to state in a sport. I can be a little hot-headed some times but I knew better than to take a piece of equipment and throw it in the vicinity of the ref.

 

Obviously, there are different takes on the incident and I have probably spent too much time trying to convince others to agree with my position - usually a fruitless and pointless thing to do.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Baseball is really is a strange culture. Frankly, you can't give Lawrie a long enough suspension for my taste. Throwing a temper tantrum and equipment...what a classless idiot. Not surprising given his history. I don't care if he racks up HoF stats...the guy is a jerk and I don't miss him at all.

 

But how about the umpire too...baiting him into it with two horrendous calls in a very tight game. How can there not be any accountability for these horrible umpires? If I'm Bud Selig, I'm firing all of these clowns and replacing them with machines. The gross incompetence and arrogance of MLB umpires never ceases to amaze me.