Rankings of Baseball's All-Time Greatest Non-Pitchers

[DuWayne Steurer]

It's really strange to me that, in general, the prevailing fan opinion is that hitters were the only ones who abused PEDs. It's not just about HRs.

 

Absolutely. It's about just being stronger, healthier, in general. I won't go into great detail, but due to a very relevant health condition, my doctor has had me do 3 cycles of steroids in the past 5 months, and after the most recent one, I can honestly tell you that I absolutely feel different/better. I had fluid drained off my knee last wednesday (bursitis), and I was playing ball by Sunday, with no pain whatsoever.

 

You just heal faster. Your muscles bounce back better and faster from workouts. Someone who doesn't see the benefits a pitcher would get from steroids doesn't understand how they truly work.

 

Now, I'm not here to hold up the virtues of steroids, I'm not exactly keen about how much they've been pumped into me, and if it weren't medically necessary, I'd never have done it. That being said, there's no way I can deny the effect they've had on me. I'm 37, and I feel somewhat rejuvenated this year, and my softball and workouts have definitely been more productive.

[HiAndTight]

The title of this thread is misleading. The list is of "All Time Greats". It doesn't specifiy hitting. Taking walks obviously adds to offensive value but it's not purely hitting. When I think of greatest hitters, I don't consider the ability to crouch under pitches and make your strike zone miniscule as Henderson did, as hitting. Stat wise a case can be made for him certainly as an all time great, but his skill wasn't purely hitting.

 

Still there is no way Santo for instance was a better offensive player than Billy Williams, but he's ranked higher on this list. So obviously the rankings include not only other offensive skills than hitting, but defensive value as well.

 

 

Are you really suggesting that talking walks is more a result of your stance than your ability to take pitches outside the zone and have a good eye at the plate?

 

And it has nothing to do with how he starts his stance. It's about where he is when he's ready to make contact with the ball.

 

Otherwise wouldn't everyone come out and get into some type of yoga stance?

 

I mean, I don't think I've ever heard a more ridiculous idea for dismissing a players ability to draw walks, especially one of the greatest in the history of the games at doing so.

 

 

I'm not dismissing his ability to take walks. I'm explaining some of what made him exceptional at it. You ask pitchers that faced him and they'll say how hard it was to get a strike called on him. He was such a threat on the bases, that a walk was equivalent to a double. He certainly knew this and made an art out of taking walks. He was a very good hitter too, of course, but not an all time great when actually swinging the bat. I think as a all time offensive player, he certainly ranks up there with the all time greats. Just pure hitting ability is a little different skill set though.

 

 

 

Please do not do this.

 

 

Please do not make a counter argument to mine by saying, "well if you asked the pitchers, they'd say." Basically just saying what you're saying and assuming because you believe it, that pitchers must also believe it.

 

And no, his pure hitting, ie, swinging the bat and getting base hits wasn't elite. But would you rather have him or Ichiro?

[HiAndTight]

Glad to see that Bonds didn't crack the Top 20.

 

 

I'm not. It's dishonest and biased. Bonds is clearly one of the greatest of all time. Each era has some black mark on it. He was in the top 20 IMO before he even started with the roids and would have ended up just below Willie Mays.

 

That he went on such a historic tear while doing the same thing some speculate that up to 80 pct of the rest of the game was doing, it's hard to argue his place among the top 10 for me on a factual basis.

 

But I don't like him either, so I won't sweat it.

[splitterpfj]

Jackie Robinson and Paul Molitor are now tied.