Burgos to Milwaukee?

[FVBrewerFan]

Wondering what everyone else thinks about Burgos taking a big jump up to MLB. He isn't/hasn't been a top prospect, and at his age I don't think he can take a leisurely stroll through the system.

 

I wouldn't push the top 3-4 starters in the system this way, but why nor Burgos? Seems like the perfect type of guy to bring up and see if you can catch lightning in a bottle. I don't suggest doing this tomorrow, but if there is another injury to the Brewers rotation, etc. why not bring him up and see how he does?

[Tedaldtada]

This something Melvin would not do unless completely forced by injury. I could see guys like McClung and Baker getting the call first, and that is assuming Fiers and Peralta have been tried.

 

What you suggest is aggressive and I like that. I would prefer he makes some starts in the high minors first though. I would endorse a straight promotion to Nashville. Burgos should at least be on the 2010 Josh Butler schedule.

[CheezWizHed]

I'd advocate a bump to AA, but not a chance to MLB. He's had a good stretch at A+ ball at age 24 in his second attempt. If he was doing this at AA, maybe.

 

Not a chance from A+.

[FVBrewerFan]

But what's the downside? He obviously has something working now, and given his history it may be temporary. So take advantage of it while you can. No way I would do this with any of the top prospects in A+, but I just don't see a downside in doing it with Burgos. Guys like Peralta, Thornburg, etc. you want to wait until you really believe they're ready. But Burgos isn't seen as a future part of the rotation anyhow. So bringing him up would be the same downside as Fiers, McClung,etc. But the upside is much higher.

[CheezWizHed]

Because the chances of an A+ pitcher succeeding at the MLB level are minimal. Going from A+ to AA is a big step (remember Heckathorn dominating A+ last year, then stuggled mightily at AA?). Going from A+ to MLB is huge... It just doesn't make sense.

 

Fiers has more upside than Burgos, also. He is two years older than Burgos but 2 levels higher. Fiers has either dominated or pitched well at every level he's been at so far (including a cup of coffee in the bigs).

 

Burgos has a 1+ month stretch and 3 years of blah.

[TheCrew07]

But what's the downside?

 

Think of it this way, the minor leagues are a 3,4,5 triangle prospect wise. A ball, Wisconsin, is the bottom and widest part of the triangle. A+, BC where Burgos is currently pitching, is the middle of the triangle, some players have washed out, but most still get to A+. AA is the apex or top of the triangle, if you have success in AA you'll likely see MLB playing time at some point. After AA the progression is pretty linear, however the competition does bump up in AAA mostly because of the experience of the players that tend to get stashed in AAA.

 

From a pitching perspective, if you can locate your fastball and have any kind of off speed pitch you can throw consistently for a strike you will have success simply because there are so many easy outs in every line-up. Look at our BC line-up, an opposing pitcher probably feels pretty good about facing Manatees right now... Then when you consider Space Coast is the ultimate pitcher's park with 20 MPH winds consistently blowing in from left field every game, all of our pitchers should post their best seasons at BC because power for RHB is so depressed in their home stadium.

 

He should see AA first because AA is basically like playing the A ball all-stars every game. Now you're facing the cream of the crop hitter wise and you need more than just a FB and a get me over off-speed pitch. It's a tremendous jump in competition, I've talked about it in regards to Jungmann and Gagnon as well, there's no reason to promote someone if their stuff isn't ready for that jump. From a development standpoint there's probably more for pitchers to take away from AAA than the hitters, simply because the uber pitching prospects just don't spend much time at all in AAA, the competition isn't the same. For the most part in AAA you have projectable pitchers who haven't harnessed their stuff or pitchability guys trying to prove they belong. However there are plenty of professional hitters that are going to be selective, work counts, and so on at that level. It's very difficult for pitchers to be blocked, though it does happen, but the reality is most teams don't have 5 starting pitchers that are irreplaceable. However because of defensive limitations position players quite often find themselves blocked for a season or two.

 

I haven't seen an accurate scouting report on Burgos in some time, I would like BA or MiLB to do a feature on him so we can get some information. He was always one of those fringy guys and for me he's going to have to prove himself at every level on the way up. I don't have a problem pushing him to AA but MLB is out of the question as far as I'm concerned. I would never advocate pushing a pitcher from A ball to the majors, there's too many other concerns such as building arm strength, pitch counts, injury nexus, quality of competition, etc. I wouldn't want to jump a guy 80 innings in a single season just because we have a perceived need. Let him make his incremental 20-30 inning jumps each season and build into that 180-200 inning MLB season the safest way.

[DHonks]

I don't get your post at all. First of all, he's not better than any pitcher we currently have, except maybe Dillard. Secondly, he's had 5 weeks of success in his career...that's it. Finally, I don't buy the age argument. Let him try AA and AAA before we try him in the majors. I may get excited more about a 21 year old in AAA than a 29 year old, but in the end, what matters is if they can impact the majors

[paul253]

I do think he needs to move up to Huntsville because of his age and BC's plethora of starters. Let's start with that.

 

Gagnon to BC and Hall into the BC rotation

Burgos and Nelson to Huntsville

Thornburg and Wooten to Nashville

 

That's what I'd like to see.

[Funketown]

I feel like the P.A. announcer might really enjoy announcing his name. That's got to count for something.

[TheCrew07]

I do think he needs to move up to Huntsville because of his age and BC's plethora of starters. Let's start with that.

 

Gagnon to BC and Hall into the BC rotation

Burgos and Nelson to Huntsville

Thornburg and Wooten to Nashville

 

That's what I'd like to see.

 

You only moved up 1 pitcher from AA to AAA, who takes the rotation slot Nelson or Burgos?

[paul253]

You only moved up 1 pitcher from AA to AAA, who takes the rotation slot Nelson or Burgos?

 

I would say both and and bump someone else to the pen. Someone like Merklinger or RJ Seidl.

[FVBrewerFan]

I see a lot of explanation about development. Of course a promotion from A+ to MLB is a huge leap. I just believe sometimes it's worth a try to fast-track a pitcher like this. Other teams do it, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

 

The guy has an average MLB fastball, yet has a ton of Ks. This tells me he must have outstanding location with his fastball, outstanding secondary pitches, or most likely both.

 

Since he hasn't done this before, it may not last. So why not catch lightning in a bottle and use him while he has everything working for him? Again, he is not a top prospect so there really shouldn't be any worries about damaging his ego if he fails.

 

It's not that I would expect him to be dominant in MLB just because he has been for a short stretch in A+. Is he better than Cholk? Dillard? Or if another starter goes down, what would it hurt to take a flyer on a guy like this?

[CheezWizHed]

The guy has an average MLB fastball

 

Link please. Everywhere I've seen (which is a least a year or two old now) states below average FB.

[FVBrewerFan]

That's the point. Below avg FB even better. Proves he's not dominating like the typical A+ pitcher blowing guys away with a plus fastball. He's actually pitching, not throwing. And if you can do that in Brevard County, you can do it in Milwaukee. And if not, you've lost nothing.

[Raw Biz]

Has anyone actually ever gone from A-ball to the majors, let alone actually had success in doing so? I know guys do it from AA but I can't remember anyone going from single A.

 

edit: I'm sure there's plenty of guys (mostly pitchers) out of college that have done so. I think Mike Leake might've gone straight to the majors the following year after being drafted. I'm not sure if he made any stops along the way. But I'm wondering about guys that weren't "super-prospects" in terms of being ready out of college. In other words, guys who started in rookie ball, then A, then A+, then a jump to the majors.

[TheCrew07]

Has anyone actually ever gone from A-ball to the majors, let alone actually had success in doing so? I know guys do it from AA but I can't remember anyone going from single A.

 

Off the top of my head, Pujols went from A to AAA in 1 season and was in the majors next season. That's about it.

 

That's the point. Below avg FB even better. Proves he's not dominating like the typical A+ pitcher blowing guys away with a plus fastball. He's actually pitching, not throwing. And if you can do that in Brevard County, you can do it in Milwaukee. And if not, you've lost nothing

 

How do you know he's actually "pitching", what do you know about his secondary stuff that we don't? I would love an accurate scouting report on him but again all it takes to succeed in A ball is FB command and being able to locate an off speed for strikes. That combination isn't good enough for AA and it's certainly not good enough for MLB. I get what you're trying to say, he's not much of a prospect so who cares if we throw him in the pool and he drowns but why wouldn't we go with someone from AAA like Peralta who need to know about for the future?

 

I'm sorry but I think it's a horrible idea, he has very little chance of success at this point in time. I'd rather he ride out this high in A+ and if he's still mowing em down by the break then promote him to AA and see how he fares there.

[Raw Biz]

I thought Pujols went to AA so I looked it up. Apparently he went from A+ to AAA for 3 games and the season ended. Then he broke camp the next year with the Cards. So technically, he doesn't count. Plus, he was really 28 then.

[battlekow]

Has anyone actually ever gone from A-ball to the majors, let alone actually had success in doing so? I know guys do it from AA but I can't remember anyone going from single A.

 

edit: I'm sure there's plenty of guys (mostly pitchers) out of college that have done so. I think Mike Leake might've gone straight to the majors the following year after being drafted. I'm not sure if he made any stops along the way. But I'm wondering about guys that weren't "super-prospects" in terms of being ready out of college. In other words, guys who started in rookie ball, then A, then A+, then a jump to the majors.

Boone Logan made the White Sox out of spring training in 2006 despite having just 5.1 innings of experience above Rookie ball.

[Mass Haas]

The closest Brewers example I could find to this would be Chris Saenz, who made only two AA starts in April 2004 (he had one AA relief appearance in 2003) before his April 24th MLB debut (and unfortunately only MLB outing), but what a game it was.

 

Chris would still be only 30 today, that's a player I'd like to see tracked down and interviewed, I think all of us around then had a real soft spot for the kid. Hope he's doing well in life.

[bullox]

And if you can do that in Brevard County, you can do it in Milwaukee.

 

 

Wil Inman never made it after an amazing half-season in Brevard. He had average stuff at best.

[HiAndTight]

Yeah, I don't see any logic in this move whatsoever.

 

First of all, lets not just dismiss him as a part of our team in the future because he's older for HiA ball. He's putting up incredible, elite numbers. Fiers became a pitcher we now consider to be a part of our future in one regard or another, and Burgos has more of a frame that lends itself to adding 1 or 2 MPH to his fastball which would put him around 91-92.

 

With a .87 ERA, and a .65 whip, even in 41 innings pitched, I think he's showing something that suggest me just might be a potential Brewer somewhere down the road. So the "what's there to lose," argument is the same as it is for any other pitcher that's in HiA and not ready.

 

Games for one as he's clearly not ready for the big leagues, AND his confidence. I don't know why that's just getting summarily dismissed. Not every pitcher that contributes in the big leagues is going to be young for every level he pitches at and have a 60-70 fastball. Maybe Burgos has an Estrada like future in him? Maybe he has a higher ceiling. But we won't know until we allow things to play themselves out and BC to Milwaukee certainly isn't it.

[paul253]

Well apparently he was just promoted to Huntsville. Let's hope he can keep up the success.

[HiAndTight]

Well apparently he was just promoted to Huntsville. Let's hope he can keep up the success.

 

 

And NOW this thread becomes a viable thread(though still probably about 2 months early).

 

Now he can prove that his video game like numbers are not a mirage and he can prove himself at AA and should he continue to dominate...then this scenario is a lot more likely. I'd still much rather see a guy like Thornburg who actually deserves it and I think is someone who could make a difference, or Peralta, the obvious choice. But this now at least makes sense.

[JohnBriggs12]

Since I don't track such things, the names escape me, but it's certainly not unheard of for a guy to start a year in high A ball and finish it in the big leagues. I believe Carlos Villanueva came directly from Huntsville to the Brewers in 2006, pitched a scoreless inning in relief, then shutout the Reds for 6 innings in his first major league start. He later was sent down to AAA. The deal with Saenz is the Brewers needed an emergency starter, and nobody viable in AAA was on regular rest, so he got the call.

 

I would think the pecking order right now for starter callups is Peralta, Fiers, Thornburg. The other guys starting at Nashville are merely placeholders other than Rogers who they want to get innings for but who's role down the road would seem to be relief. If Burgos dominates at AA for 10-12 starts, he could end the year in Nashville, and that would put a September callup in play.

 

edit: In 2009, Daniel Hudson went 4-3 with a 3.40 ERA for Winston-Salem in the high A Carolina League, was bumped to Birmingham where he went 7-0 in 9 starts there with a 1.60 ERA, then moved to Charlotte, where he started 5 games going 2-0, with a 3.00 ERA, then was a September callup for the White Sox, appearing in 6 games (2 starts).

 

So it happens though Brewers are generally not all that aggressive. Still, this is a year when potentially 3/5 of the rotation could be elsewhere next year. So if they are out of it down the stretch, lots of guys could get early looks.

[FVBrewerFan]

Well apparently he was just promoted to Huntsville. Let's hope he can keep up the success.

 

 

And NOW this thread becomes a viable thread(though still probably about 2 months early).

 

Now he can prove that his video game like numbers are not a mirage and he can prove himself at AA and should he continue to dominate...then this scenario is a lot more likely. I'd still much rather see a guy like Thornburg who actually deserves it and I think is someone who could make a difference, or Peralta, the obvious choice. But this now at least makes sense.

 

I'm just ahead of the curve. I don't agree Thornburg, Peralta, etc. should get the first look. Don't burn their service time. Take a flyer on a guy like Burgos because you have nothing to lose.

 

Now Burgos may pitch a couple months and if he continues his success, he gets called up then. Maybe he's exposed. I never said the Brewers WOULD bring him up quickly, or at all for that matter. I just think they SHOULD.

 

Don't burn service time for the top prospects, bring up guys like Burgos where all you have is upside. If he fails, you have another Cholk or Dillard and you move forward.