Speaking of Josh Hamilton (somebody had to) [Latest… Melvin: We have the connection with Narron but not with US Bank… post 230]

[crossface21]

Rumor has it that Hamilton's asking price is 7 years for $175 million. Good luck with that, Josh.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/20795761/report-josh-hamilton-wants-7-years-175-million

[Bnowell4evr]

If you have to trade Hart to get Hamilton why not just lock up Hart, he will be alot cheaper and then use that money elsewhere, the only way I sign Hamilton is if Hart stays.

 

Personally, because I think Hart could bring back a better pitcher in a trade than we could find as a FA. I'd rather have Hamilton and trade for a young SP than re-sign Hart long-term and sign Dempster/EJax/Lohse/etc. I also don't think Hart will be that much cheaper. He'd still probably cost in the 4/60 range. Again, this is all assuming Hamilton could be had for relatively cheap, which I doubt. But given a choice, I'd trade Hart and sign Hamilton rather than resign Hart and sign a FA pitcher.

 

I bet the Braves would swap one of their starting pitchers for Hart. They have like 9 guys competing for 5 rotation spots with a clear need for RH power. Both Hudson and Maholm are gonna be free agents in 2014 like Corey Hart so that's probably the starting point.

[Raw Biz]

I bet the Braves would swap one of their starting pitchers for Hart. They have like 9 guys competing for 5 rotation spots with a clear need for RH power. Both Hudson and Maholm are gonna be free agents in 2014 like Corey Hart so that's probably the starting point.

 

If I'm trading Hart, it's not going to be for a 1 yr contract like Hudson/Maholm. The Brewers need to start focusing on long-term, sustained success. They need to cycle talent in for the long-haul, not just thinking of stopgaps. I'd want at least 3 years of control, maybe settle for 2 depending on the pitcher.

[monty57]

I bet the Braves would swap one of their starting pitchers for Hart. They have like 9 guys competing for 5 rotation spots with a clear need for RH power. Both Hudson and Maholm are gonna be free agents in 2014 like Corey Hart so that's probably the starting point.

 

If I'm trading Hart, it's not going to be for a 1 yr contract like Hudson/Maholm. The Brewers need to start focusing on long-term, sustained success. They need to cycle talent in for the long-haul, not just thinking of stopgaps. I'd want at least 3 years of control, maybe settle for 2 depending on the pitcher.

 

With all of their young pitching, the Braves fit that bill, and if Melvin decides to shop Hart I'd guess Atlanta would be one of the first phone calls made. I've pretty much resigned myself to the belief that Hart will play for the Brewers for one more year and will then leave as a free agent. If they are able to trade him for a good, young, top-of-the-order-potential starting pitcher, I will be happy.

 

Rumor has it that Hamilton's asking price is 7 years for $175 million. Good luck with that, Josh.

 

After last offseason, I could see someone doing it. That "someone" will not be the Brewers.

[TooLiveBrew]

This thread title's "latest" note should be updated with Melvin's comment about having the Narron connection but not the US Bank connection. The only place this idea has legs is fantasy land.

[Team Canada]

Done.

[Dragonbait]

Just to throw fuel on the fire.... CBS sport's experts are picking where the biggest FA are going to go....

 

Two are picking the Brewer's for Hamilton:

 

"Brewers. GM Doug Melvin can joke all he wants about Milwaukee needing the U.S. Bank to sign Hamilton. But at this point, they are the one team known to have a keen interest in signing the slugging outfielder. Others may emerge, as Hamilton is undeniably talented. But the Crew has at least cleared the first hurdle or aren't worrying too much about Hamilton's addiction history. They figure having his original 'life coach,' Johnny Narron, as their hitting coach is a plus, as is their nice, low-key locale. Milwaukee owner Mark Attanasio has tried to make some significant buys, though he came up well short in the cases of CC Sabathia and his own Prince Fielder. He may fall short again, but to this point there's no big-market team known to be in the fray. The Braves are another team that's at least talked it over, but their concern seems to be that they are already pretty left-handed. Milwaukee doesn't have that concern. Beyond that, what they need most is pitching. Hamilton seems to be a fit in Milwaukee.

"Brewers. Lots of people can use his bat, lots of teams could get in a whole heap o' trouble by committing too much of their payroll to a player whose body has been through the ravages of addiction and injuries. The Rangers will make a serious run at him, but they also know better than anyone the nurturing and babysitting he needs, not to mention how his tremendous hot streaks come with the most frigid of cold streaks. If Milwaukee is aggressive, Brewers coach hitting coach Johnny Narron, who was Hamilton's confidante in both Cincinnati and Texas, could be a major tie-breaker as Josh makes his decision."

[fondybrewfan]

He is asking for 7/175. So basically we would need hime to come down to 1/2 of that before we would be interested. Seems pretty unlikely. If Hamilton really thinks he is a $25 Million a year player or even a 7 year contract player; he is going to be waiting a long time. He is already on the wrong side of 30 and obviously has some baggage.

 

If I was Hamilton; I would be happy with 4/80.

 

These guys can say the Brewers are interested all they want; but unless we trade for some pre arby SP that is actually good; I don't see how we will afford to pay $10-$15 Million a year for whatever SP we sign and $20 Million a year for Hamilton not to mention a whole new bullpen.

[monty57]

I don't see how we will afford to pay $10-$15 Million a year for whatever SP we sign and $20 Million a year for Hamilton not to mention a whole new bullpen.

 

That's exactly why I wrote that the only way I see a Hamilton signing would be if they traded some money away (most likely Hart/Gomez). They could save the money owed the players traded away, and probably land a cheap, young SP for Hart and a cheap, young reliever for Gomez. Deals involving multiple moving pieces are hard to pull off, so I don't think it'll happen.

 

By "hard to pull off," I mean risky. Let's say they sign Hamilton with the intention of trading Hart for a young SP. Now every team knows they need to shed salary, so no one offers as much for Hart as they would if they didn't know the Brewers needed salary relief. If Melvin refuses to trade Hart for limited return, then he's stuck with no money for SP/RP help, so we go into the season with several starting pitchers that can't pitch 200 innings, and a whole lot of question marks in the bullpen.

 

However, if fantasy becomes reality, and we strike a quick deal to trade Hart for a young, top-of-the-order-potential SP and Gomez for a young-back-end-of-the-bullpen reliever, then we've shed around $13-15MM (depending on what Gomez gets in arby) from next year's payroll, and added two talented guys who will be inexpensive for the next 5-6 years. We'd probably run into some financial difficulties in 2014 when Braun, Hamilton, Ramirez, Yo, and Weeks are all expensive, but maybe (again in fantasy world) the signing could work if we were willing to trade away some other guys.

 

I don't think it will happen, I'm pretty sure I don't want it to happen, and it certainly won't happen if he demands 7 years / $175MM. But, for sake of message board pondering, it could be feasible if he's ends up with something south of 5 years / $100MM.

[RobDeer 45]

This is one of those moves that has me feeling really nervous right now. If we signed him, sure it would be exciting to have his bat, but boy does it seem risky as heck! Anything over 3 years would make me sweat.

[JohnBriggs12]

If anyone got traded to make room for Hamilton, my money is on Weeks. Though I'm not convinced anyone gets dealt to make room. They appear to be stockpiling young bullpen arms which is a hint they have a contingency for saving money in that area to pay for Hamilton. They also can make room by staying away from any pricy starters.

[endaround]

So they trade the one position they have no depth at?

[Hitman_Hart]

So they trade the one position they have no depth at?

 

It would suggest a confidence in Scooter.

[TooLiveBrew]

So they trade the one position they have no depth at?

It would suggest a confidence in Scooter.

Which, after a .714 OPS at AA & questions still remaining about his defense, would be ill-placed as of right now. Gennett has a long way to go still.

[MNBrew]

Perhaps not many folks' ideal choice -- certainly not as "hot ticket" as Gennett -- but Taylor Green at 2B wouldn't be fundamentally screwy, either, since that's his "native" position.

 

Not that Weeks is the 1st guy I'd look to trade at all. But somewhere along the way, they have to at least listen to see which vets might net the best return. If the return for Weeks is a blowout they can't refuse, there are other 2B candidates out there just like there was Aramis Ramirez at 3B last year. But, for the record, I'm one who believes Green deserves a shot at more than just a bench spot.

[trwi7]

If anyone got traded to make room for Hamilton, my money is on Weeks.

 

Makes sense. Sign an outfielder, trade a 2nd baseman. I think that's what everyone would do in that situation.

[Mass Haas]

I find former Brewers' reliever Mike Adams' honesty in talking about Josh Hamilton fascinating in this brief audio interview.

[sheetskout]

I find former Brewers' reliever Mike Adams' honesty in talking about Josh Hamilton fascinating in this brief audio interview.

 

 

Pretty much the nice way of saying "We don't know what we're going to get from the guy mentally day-in-and-day-out.

 

The angel in me is nervous about the Hamilton rumors while the devil in me wants to see him right behind Braun in the linuep.

[jackailius]

First let me say that ideally I think it would be best if we could pick up Grienke again if we can get him for a 5yr 110M contract but if that doesn't happen I am starting to get onboard with Hamilton. The more I think about it the more I think that if we can get Hamilton on a reasonable contract it might make sense based on some of the arguments about the mediocre crop of starters and our surplus of middle rotation guys that are prearb that may do just as well.

 

When I say reasonable contract I would think a 4yr 90M with 1 or 2 yr vesting options based on games played etc for an additional 20M a year or a 5 yr 110M w/1 yr vesting would work into the Brewers budget.

 

If that would happen we would be trading Gomez for sure and possibly Hart depending on what Mark A sets the budget at and even if we don't trade Hart I don't see it reasonable to resign him after this year. If we could package the two for relief and possibly a 3B prospect that is projectable to the majors in a couple years (when ARAM is gone) I wouldn't hesitate. The other option would be some higher side prospects with a starting pitcher with one year left on the contract back for them.

 

The possibility of lineups would be one of the two as follows depending if Hart goes or not. The salary level is about $86Mish without or $95Mish with Hart. Of course who we get back and

 

OF L Aoki 1.25M

2B R Weeks 10

OF R Braun 8.5

OF L Hamilton 20

3B R ARAM 10

1B R Hart 11

C R Lucroy 1.9

SS R Segura .5

 

Bench

OF L Schafer .5

1B L Gamel .5

Util L Green .5

SS/Util R Bianchi .5

C R Maldanado .5

 

Pitching

Gallardo 7.75

Narveson .8

Rogers .5

Estrada 1.6

Axford 5.1

Kintzler .5

Random Lefty speclst 2

Broxton type rel 4

Comp P for Gomez 4

 

Those Pitchers with options- some starting in minors

Peralta .5

Fiers .5

Stinson .5

Henderson .5

Thornberg .5

Nelson .5

Hellwig .5

Burgos .5

95milish

 

Without Hart

OF L Aoki 1.25M

2B R Weeks 10

OF R Braun 8.5

OF L Hamilton 20

3B R ARAM 10

1B L Gamel .5

C R Lucroy 1.9

SS R Segura .5

Bench

OF L Schafer .5

Util R ishikawa Type 2

Util L Green .5

SS/Util R Bianchi .5

C R Maldanado .5

 

Pitching

Gallardo 7.75

Narveson .8

Rogers .5

Estrada 1.6

Axford 5.1

Kintzler .5

Random Lefty speclst 2

Broxton type rel 4

Comp P for Gomez 8

 

Those Pitchers with options- some starting in minors

Peralta .5

Fiers .5

Stinson .5

Henderson .5

Thornberg .5

Nelson .5

Hellwig .5

Burgos .5

88Milish

My thought is there are a lot of younger pitchers that maybe can flow to where you need them either starter or relief and becasue they are young we may have to look at a 6 man rotation that flows around Gallardo and maybe estrada or rogers goign every 5th and the others develop more time inbetween innings if we don't get a short term tenured starter out of trading Gomez/Hart. I think either way there is a lot of potential and if you get a Broxton type who is a good steady veteran out of the bullpen to help the younger guys along I think we would have a decent shot. Of course there are a ton of variables and if you slot one person into another and trade someone there is no way of knowing exactly what you would get back but as guess I could really see this working. The potency of our offense would also take some of the pressure off the younger pitchers who are bound to stumble and have some games where they blowup. Also having a nice group of longer guys can really help with the skippers ability to pull the plug early when soemone is faltering. Thoughts?

[endaround]

Hamilton is not $20-25 million dollars better than any player on the Brewers he would replace. It just doesn't make sense.

[paul253]

The thing that really doesn't make sense to me is that we know, just by watching this team over the past 5 or 6 seasons, that we absolutely cannot win with all offense no pitching. I am high on our young pitchers but the fact is they are unproven. I'd be willing to go into next year with pretty much the same team as this season (albeit a completely new bullpen) just to see what we have. But IF you are going to spend big time money on a player I don't understand why it wouldn't be a pitcher. If it is either Greinke or Hamilton I'd take Greinke 10 times out of 10.

[jackailius]

paul253- I completely agree with paying Greinke over Hamilton. I would much rather have the Grienke/Gallardo combo at the front of our rotation to really take the stress off our young arms but going off the premise that we aren't going to be able to land Greinke, my post was saying that I would rather spend the extra money on Hamilton to bring back the big R/L combo at the 3/4 and actually it would be R/L/R combo for a couple of years that to put up $12 to $15M a year for multiple years on a middle of the rotation kind of guy when we are pretty chalk full of those type of arms in our minors- albiet not very experienced.

[monty57]

I would rather spend the extra money on Hamilton

 

I'd probably rather use the extra money to pay down debt to expidite the period where Attanasio won't have to budget so much of the revenue towards debt repayment, and instead will permanantly be able to field a team with a higher payroll.

 

In 2013, we may have to trade Hart & Gomez to make room for Hamilton in the budget. There is reason to believe that Hart & Gomez could outperform Hamilton & Gamel. In 2014, we will have Braun, Gallardo, Weeks and Ramirez all making a lot of money. In order to fit Hamilton's $20-25MM into the budget, we'd probably have to give Ramirez or Weeks away to anyone who would take on the salary. Beyond 2014, Hamilton and Braun would make around $40MM, which could be anywhere between 30-50% of our team's payroll.

 

There are ways Melvin could work it to fit Hamilton onto the Brewers... I just don't think it's worth it. I'd rather just save the money this year. Pick up a veteran SP on a one-year deal, add a couple of reliable relivers and we should be good to go.

[logan82]

They probably get nice tax breaks for having debt. Also depending on the loan and what they do with the money they may be better off using the money somewhere else and not paying the debt off.

[Outlander]

Tax breaks for having debt?