First Base Solutions

[jmeks23]

Let's not get crazy here. Lucroy is a good hitter for a catcher but he wouldn't be in the top 5 hitters on this team if Green is at 1B. Certainly not a guy you move around to make room for his bat in the lineup.

 

 

Lucroy is definitely a better hitter than Green IMO, at least at this point. I just posted this on another topic, but people are absolutely infatuated with Taylor Green on this board. He just doesn't have an impact bat from everything I've seen. His MiLB numbers were definitely off the charts last year, but he hasn't shown much pop in his opportunities last year or this year and I'm just not sure looking at his swing that it'll ever be there in the majors. I hope for the sake of the sanity of the board I'm wrong.

[gregmag]

Green had a monster year in the minors last year, and he's just getting started at the big league level. For me, the weight of the evidence is still strongly on his side. But I agree that Lucroy is a better hitter at this point, certainly one of the five best bats on the team with Gamel out.

 

Lucroy's career, I think, shows why you shouldn't be so down on Green. Lucroy had strong numbers in the minors -- not as strong as Green's last year, but over more seasons and without the big injury as a complication. Then Lucroy got to Milwaukee. First year OPS: 628. Second year: 703. Third year, so far (SMALL SAMPLE): 890. I expect that to drop quite a bit, but I think the improvement is real and predictable. Lucroy is 26, and the most common peak age for hitters is 27. Young hitters develop. That's why I think it makes no sense to sound alarms about Green at age 25 based on 58 major league PAs.

[Baldkin]

Green had a monster year in the minors last year, and he's just getting started at the big league level. For me, the weight of the evidence is still strongly on his side. But I agree that Lucroy is a better hitter at this point, certainly one of the five best bats on the team with Gamel out.

 

Lucroy's career, I think, shows why you shouldn't be so down on Green. Lucroy had strong numbers in the minors -- not as strong as Green's last year, but over more seasons and without the big injury as a complication. Then Lucroy got to Milwaukee. First year OPS: 628. Second year: 703. Third year, so far (SMALL SAMPLE): 890. I expect that to drop quite a bit, but I think the improvement is real and predictable. Lucroy is 26, and the most common peak age for hitters is 27. Young hitters develop. That's why I think it makes no sense to sound alarms about Green at age 25 based on 58 major league PAs.

 

Lucroy also would've been in AAA for half of last season (probably) had Gregg Zaun not gotten hurt and had him called up 6 weeks into 2010 straight from AA.

[monty57]

Lucroy also would've been in AAA for half of last season (probably) had Gregg Zaun not gotten hurt and had him called up 6 weeks into 2010 straight from AA.

 

Or, going off of Melvin's recent record, Lucroy would've been in AA all year 2010, then Melvin would've found another vet so Lucroy would've been in AAA all year 2011. Then Melvin would've found another vet and Lucroy would've repeated AAA in 2012. Whenever we would've been forced to bring Lucroy up or lose him to minor league free-agency, we'd have reluctantly let him play for the Brewers, but would probably have had a veteran as the starter, since we can never trust a rookie. That is, if we hadn't traded him for a mid-season upgrade during some "playoff push" to help us win 80 instead of 79 games.

[logan82]

Why would Lucroy have spent 2 full seasons in AA?

[endaround]

Lucroy also would've been in AAA for half of last season (probably) had Gregg Zaun not gotten hurt and had him called up 6 weeks into 2010 straight from AA.

 

Or, going off of Melvin's recent record, Lucroy would've been in AA all year 2010, then Melvin would've found another vet so Lucroy would've been in AAA all year 2011. Then Melvin would've found another vet and Lucroy would've repeated AAA in 2012. Whenever we would've been forced to bring Lucroy up or lose him to minor league free-agency, we'd have reluctantly let him play for the Brewers, but would probably have had a veteran as the starter, since we can never trust a rookie. That is, if we hadn't traded him for a mid-season upgrade during some "playoff push" to help us win 80 instead of 79 games.

 

 

Or we can go with Melvin's actual record where he put Lucroy on the Brewers.

[Invader3K]

Lucroy also would've been in AAA for half of last season (probably) had Gregg Zaun not gotten hurt and had him called up 6 weeks into 2010 straight from AA.

 

Or, going off of Melvin's recent record, Lucroy would've been in AA all year 2010, then Melvin would've found another vet so Lucroy would've been in AAA all year 2011. Then Melvin would've found another vet and Lucroy would've repeated AAA in 2012. Whenever we would've been forced to bring Lucroy up or lose him to minor league free-agency, we'd have reluctantly let him play for the Brewers, but would probably have had a veteran as the starter, since we can never trust a rookie. That is, if we hadn't traded him for a mid-season upgrade during some "playoff push" to help us win 80 instead of 79 games.

 

"Melvin's recent record" in some alternate dimension bizarro world I guess.

[pete]

Melvin has stated plainly that he doesn't think using rookies in a year when the team is going to compete for and in the playoffs is a good idea. He doesn't like them on the bench either.

 

Other than Lucroy, what is the list of guys Melvin brought up from AA?

 

He also doesn't mind trading prospects. Last season on the tv during an in game interview he said he would just replace them by drafting more players.

[NievesNoNO]

Any takers on Adam Lind? Could have him for nothing besides the salary.

[Crew2323]

I'd take a shot on Lind. He's still only 28. Perhaps a change of scenery will help him. He's definitely got more potential than Ishikawa. What are the salary implications of claiming him?

[EdRomero11]

I believe Lind is owed 5 million this year amd next with options for 2014 thru 2016. Not sure if I want to take a chance on him, one great year a bunch of bad years

[brettac1]

duplicate

[brettac1]

Melvin has stated plainly that he doesn't think using rookies in a year when the team is going to compete for and in the playoffs is a good idea. He doesn't like them on the bench either.

This shouldn't be an issue this season.

 

I'd like Paul Goldschmidt or Brandon Belt, since their managers apparently hate them.

[pete]

Brettac1, I said that to support the way that monty57 characterized Melvin. It was a bit hyperbolic, but otherwise it seemed to be right.

[monty57]

I was shooting for hyperbole, but I don't know what font color to use for that :-)

[ninja33]

I believe Lind is owed 5 million this year amd next with options for 2014 thru 2016. Not sure if I want to take a chance on him, one great year a bunch of bad years

 

yea, that's right. his contract kicks up to 7-8 million in those option years, with the buyout decreasing from 2 to 0.5 million. I wouldn't be against taking a shot...looking at his peripherals he's had some pretty bad luck so far this year and isn't THIS bad. The question is though, even if he bounces back...is he any good? He hasn't really played well since 2009. I think even if he bounces back some this year, he won't be that different from Taylor Green.

[longball04]

Thoughts on the suggestion by Harold Reynolds (I know, tough to agree with the source) during the Fox pre-game show?

 

How do you turn the Brewers around?

 

Trade K-Rod to Boston for Kevin Youkilis and play him at 1st base.

Gaining more momentum. Just heard another radio voice on MLB Radio suggest that yesterday. They even briefly mentioned it when talking about Middlebrooks (spelling) last night. I don't think that is a horrible idea, especially if that is all it takes and Boston says ok. Kintzler could come right up and possibly be the set-up guy with no issues. Just a thought.

[JohnBriggs12]

Thoughts on the suggestion by Harold Reynolds (I know, tough to agree with the source) during the Fox pre-game show?

 

How do you turn the Brewers around?

 

Trade K-Rod to Boston for Kevin Youkilis and play him at 1st base.

Gaining more momentum. Just heard another radio voice on MLB Radio suggest that yesterday. They even briefly mentioned it when talking about Middlebrooks (spelling) last night. I don't think that is a horrible idea, especially if that is all it takes and Boston says ok. Kintzler could come right up and possibly be the set-up guy with no issues. Just a thought.

 

Two problems with that scenario. Youkilis makes $4 million more than K-Rod. Now that's about a $2.5 million difference the rest of the year. Second issue is Kintzler. You are asking a guy with 22 innings of major league experience to take over the 8th inning role? That's really rolling the dice. I know K-Rod has had some struggles this year, but I'd trust him far more than Kintzler. Now you could take on an extra $3 million or so and get a guy like Capps but now you've added $5 million to your payroll with no guarantee of improvement..

 

Finally, the problem with the team hasn't been first base. Between Hart, Ishikawa, and additional ABs for Aoki when Hart's at 1B, they've gotten decent production in place of Gamel. The offensive struggles have been at second base. They aren't going anywhere unless Weeks starts hitting and I don't mean working his average to .180 in 2 months. He needs to hit in his normal range of .270 with some power starting right now. No marginal upgrade somewhere else would overcome having your number 6 hitter batting in the .150's all year.

[longball04]

Look at it this way. IF you lost K-Rod in the deal, who would you be most comfortable with in the setup role?

 

Kameron Loe

Brandon Kintzler

Jose Veras

Manny Parra

Marco Estrada

 

I think it is an easier answer. I agree our problem isn't first. Heck, I am fine with Hart staying put there. Opens up the offense a little bit if you ask me. Problem is production at 2nd. But everyone here seems to think that is going to change soon. As for Youk, think of the bat, added offense, and then still having Hart in the lineup. I like that idea. Sounds good in my mind.

[JohnBriggs12]

longball04,

 

I think you're underestimating the value of the 8th inning guy. Loe isn't a bad pitcher but he cost them a number of games in the first half last year. Granted K-Rod hasn't been a lock down guy either, but he appears to be coming around lately and his acquisition was the single biggest reason for the great 2nd half. You can't be serious mentioning Parra there. Estrada either. Veras has the stuff but we haven't see the production either. In many games the 8th inning guy is called upon to face the meat of an order and his job is more difficult than the closer. If a team has serious ideas about contending and going after Youkilis means you are, you'd have to add a proven 8th inning guy to fill the hole you've created.

[monty57]

To me, trading for Youklis would have to be part of a bigger plan with a lot of moving pieces. He has an option for $13MM for next year, so I would think:

 

1) You trade for Youklis to man 1B for 2012 & 2013, hopefully garnering draft picks after he leaves for free agency after 2013.

2) You trade Morgan and move Aoki to CF w/ Gomez (moving Morgan essentially offsets the monetary difference between K-Rod & Youklis for 2012 and brings back a prospect)

3) Hart plays RF this year and is traded in the offseason, bringing back young talent and freeing up salary for Youklis in 2013.

4) Gamel plays RF next year and is moved back to 1B in 2014 when Youklis is gone.

 

While this is plausible, plans with a lot of moving pieces often don't pan out.

 

Another option would be to trade for him, exercise his 2013 option this offseason and then trade him to a team looking for a 1B/3B and bring back some prospects. This would allow us to help this year's team and get something in return after the season, as we're getting nothing back from K-Rod, but it could backfire if no team wants to trade for him @ $13MM next year.

[Baldkin]

longball04,

 

I think you're underestimating the value of the 8th inning guy. Loe isn't a bad pitcher but he cost them a number of games in the first half last year. Granted K-Rod hasn't been a lock down guy either, but he appears to be coming around lately and his acquisition was the single biggest reason for the great 2nd half.

 

 

No, KRod was not the single biggest reason for the great second half. It was their starting pitching. Their ERA was 3.08 in the second half last year. KRod threw a measly 29 of the 625 innings the team threw.

 

With Aoki playing as well as he is, I see no reason not to go with Hart at 1B full time.

[torts]

longball04,

 

I think you're underestimating the value of the 8th inning guy. Loe isn't a bad pitcher but he cost them a number of games in the first half last year. Granted K-Rod hasn't been a lock down guy either, but he appears to be coming around lately and his acquisition was the single biggest reason for the great 2nd half.

 

 

No, KRod was not the single biggest reason for the great second half. It was their starting pitching. Their ERA was 3.08 in the second half last year. KRod threw a measly 29 of the 625 innings the team threw.

 

With Aoki playing as well as he is, I see no reason not to go with Hart at 1B full time.

 

 

absolutely agree with this.

[monty57]

longball04,

 

I think you're underestimating the value of the 8th inning guy. Loe isn't a bad pitcher but he cost them a number of games in the first half last year. Granted K-Rod hasn't been a lock down guy either, but he appears to be coming around lately and his acquisition was the single biggest reason for the great 2nd half.

 

 

No, KRod was not the single biggest reason for the great second half. It was their starting pitching. Their ERA was 3.08 in the second half last year. KRod threw a measly 29 of the 625 innings the team threw.

 

With Aoki playing as well as he is, I see no reason not to go with Hart at 1B full time.

 

K-Rod certainly solidified things, but I think the biggest problem pre-Rodriguez was that Roenicke was hell-bent on keeping Loe as the "8th inning guy," even though he's proven again and again that he shouldn't be used against LH hitters. Getting K-Rod forced Roenicke to take Loe out of the "8th inning guy" role and use him in situations where he had a chance to succeed. If you insist on having a designated "8th inning guy," then LOOGY's and ROOGY's shouldn't be considered and you almost need two "closers" on the roster. However, if you have a couple of your better relievers designated "setup guys," you can play the best reliever for the situation and that can work out just fine.

[longball04]

In my defense, I was just naming the bullpen guys on the roster to show you that of all the options, which included Parra and Estrada, that the logical promotion to the 8th inning spot would be a guy like Kintzler who I believe is closing right now in Nashville right? That is what I was saying. I was not pushing for the trade of KRod to Youk. That was the national media. I understand the value of an 8th inning guy WHEN HE IS GOING GOOD. Right now it is a living hell watching KRod pitch in the 8th. While he is doing better as of late, just a little, he is still scary as hell to watch as a fan. I believe they called in 20 minutes of hell while he was in New York.

 

That being said, Hart needs to stay at 1st for the rest of the year, with an occasional day off to move to RF to give a bench guy some time. But right now you have an outfield rotation that is working. Aoki deserves to be in there EVERY day right now. The kid is growing on me. And yes, since he is younger than me, he is a kid.