Possible SS Replacements

[Funketown]

Well, Gonzalez's injury from yesterday looked pretty ugly, and I think we can all agree that we'd be happy to have him back within 4 weeks. However, I'm expecting the worst on Monday, that he'll be gone for most of the season. If this is indeed the case, who do you see as a trade target, assuming the Brewers haven't already fallen out of it?

 

Clint Barmes is in the first year of a 2 year, $10.5 million deal. As a newly signed FA, he won't be available until June 1st, but trades rarely get done before that date anyways. He's a bit pricey, but perhaps if the Pirates continue to flounder he could be had for cheap.

 

Jamey Carroll is also in the first year of a 2 year (+ option) deal, his worth $6.5 million. The Twins are already floundering, and Carroll, for the first time in his career, has been used primarily as a shortstop, with 26 games started at SS.

 

There have to be some other guys out there. With the Dodgers' hot start they'll probably at least look like contenders for some time, so I doubt Hairston Jr. will be available. He also hasn't really been used as a SS since 2010. Who else is out there that might be a reasonable target?

[EdRomero11]

Brett Lillibridge from the White Sox might seem to fit. I am looking for some one who would seem to settle nicely into the utilty spot next year. Trevor Ploufe from the Twins could fit to but not so sure about his D. Aaron Miles may be available but I am note sure the last time he has played shortstop.

[pogokat]

jason bartlett could be had for nothing

[jmeks23]

jason bartlett could be had for nothing

 

 

That's because he's worth nothing. Anyone is better than Izturis though.

[HiAndTight]

jason bartlett could be had for nothing

 

 

That's because he's worth nothing. Anyone is better than Izturis though.

 

 

The guy's been worth roughly 19 war in parts of 7 seasons. Granted thats' inflated by one 5.5 year, but he's solidly above replacement level, and I think he'd be a pretty big upgrade to the Brewers.

 

 

But I think Craig Counsell comes out of his brief retirement until something long term can be done...and I'd take him over Izturis as well.

[monty57]

but perhaps if the Pirates continue to flounder

 

Don't look now, but the Pirates and Brewers are tied. Why would they look at trading away the guy they just signed, while we're looking to add? Their fan boards are probably saying "we've got a lot of young talent, if we could just add a pitcher, we'd be good. Perhaps if the Brewers continue to flounder we'll be able to trade for Greinke or Marcum."

 

I'd say that if we really want to look at SS, we look for a long-term cure and forget about the band-aids.

 

Baltimore is in first place in the AL East and have Endy Chavez .127 AVG / .172 OBP / .145 SLG / .318 OPS getting regular time in the corner OF/DH roles. They have Hardy signed at SS and Top Prospect Manny Machado in the minors. Could we work a deal centered around Corey Hart that would bring Machado over?

 

Texas has Elvis Andrus cemented in as their MLB SS, and they have Jurickson Profar in the minors. They're pretty stacked, but maybe they'd like upgrading from David Murphy to Hart, or maybe they'd like Greinke or Marcum in their rotation.

 

We may not trade in our own division, but the Reds have young Zack Cozart at the MLB level, and Billy Hamilton in the minors. They just locked up Phillips long-term at 2B, so where are they going to play everyone?

 

The Rays may not be willing to part with a SS prospect, but again, there's blood in the water in New York and Boston, and the rest of the sharks in the division may want to capitalize. They have Korean-born Hak-Ju Lee in the minors and maybe Aramis Ramirez would ease the pain of losing Longoria with a torn hamstring. Plus, he could DH for them in the coming years, limiting the risk he won't be able to field 3B throughout his contract.

 

The Red Sox have a few young SS's - so many that they let Lawrie go to Houston - and they're looking for a closer... we have two, and K-Rod should be very expendable as part of a trade for a SS upgrade.

 

The Braves have Andrelton Simmons who almost won the starting spot this season. They're young and hoping for a playoff spot after blowing it last year and the Phillies are reeling, so they may be willing to trade Simmons or Pastornicky for a better shot at knocking the Phillies out. Greinke or Marcum would fit well in their rotation, allowing them to send Delgado back to the minors until Greinke/Marcum leaves at the end of the season, and we could probably get Simmons+others for one of those.

 

The Astors acquired Jed Lawrie in the offseason, and they have Jonathan Villar in the minors. At some point, they may be willing to trade Lawrie but they'd probably be looking for prospects, so this (unlike the previous suggestions) would mean us trading prospects for an upgrade this season, but it could also help us in the future, as he has two arby years left. However, those lowly Astros we all like to laugh at are a game ahead of us in the standings, so who knows, maybe they'll try to make a shot at the playoffs in their final year in the NL. That may make Villar available for some pitching help.

 

These are just a few ideas after quickly looking at some top SS prospects. I'm not suggesting what the value-for-value would be (in other words, my quick suggestions may be too little or too much to pay), but we could probably find a way to land a good young SS if we would stop looking completely at "win now" and would broaden our view to looking at something that could help us for a long time.

[Warning Track Power]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/baltimores-hot-start-and-the-case-of-j-j-hardy/

 

I feel compelled to post this as I would still do anything to see this happen...especially now.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Man, I would love to have Hardy back here right now. Probably a pipe-dream, but it would be amazing. I really don't see us being able to do anything at SS until sometime in July though honestly. Don't see a lot of teams willing to move their SS this early in the season.

[RockCoCougars]

The cupboard is completely bare. This weekend, I spent some time scouring possibilities with other organizations at AAA and the two best names that I found were Josh Wilson and Kevin Frandsen. It looks like they are stuck with Izturis for at least a few months unless they do some serious thinking outside-the-box.

[3and2Fastball]

The Orioles would want young talent for Hardy. Not sure I'd want to trade whatever young talent we have for 2-3 years of Hardy. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing. I suppose it depends on if we are rebuilding in 2013 or not...

[monty57]

The cupboard is completely bare. This weekend, I spent some time scouring possibilities with other organizations at AAA and the two best names that I found were Josh Wilson and Kevin Frandsen. It looks like they are stuck with Izturis for at least a few months unless they do some serious thinking outside-the-box.

 

Well, it's not completely bare. There is the nightmare scenario that we decide that it is so important to win this year that we start trading away our pitching prospects for MLB SS's in the final year of their contract. Bon Jovi's "Let's go down in a blaze of glory" rang through my head as I typed that last sentance.

 

Personally, I'd like to give what we've got a month or so to see how things shake out. If we aren't competing at that time, I'd start shopping guys like Hart, Greinke, Marcum and K-Rod in some of the scenarios I described in my last post to try to get a long-term solution at shortstop, the one position we don't have a long-term solution already in-house.

[Oldcity]

Hardy or Machado doesn't make much sense because of what they'd have to give up. Trade Hart for Machado? That's just filling one hole by creating another.

 

Only options if they want to make a move now is someone like Bartlett or Carroll. Both players are struggling, and Bartlett isn't cheap. He's still an upgrade over Izturis.

[monty57]

Trade Hart for Machado? That's just filling one hole by creating another.

 

No, it's weakening this year's team to vastly improve future teams. If we made that move, we would essentially eliminate our chances of making the playoffs this year (which are already very slim with all the injuries that have occurred), but we would solve our SS question until 2018, probably longer if we extended him.

 

With everything that's happened to the 2012 Brewers, I'm past the point of finding a band-aid cure. I think we should hold pat for a month or so to see what happens. Who knows, maybe Green, Weeks and Ramirez catch fire while St Louis has a rash of injuries. However, if we're not at or near the top of the division in late June/early July, we should sell before we lose Greinke, Marcum, K-Rod and possibly Wolf for nothing.

 

If we could trade 1.5 years of Hart for 6 years of a top young SS and we got some good prospects for Greinke, Marcum, K-Rod and maybe Wolf, then we could have a shot at being good for the next decade. If we trade prospects and spend money to try to save 2012, we could end up with a .500 team this year and a sub-.500 team for the next few years.

[Kelbysdaddy]

You're insane if you wouldn't trade hart for machado. Its hardly filling one hole by creating another since of is the only position the brewers have any depth at and machado is a top 10 prospect who many think will be the next a-rod and they have nothing for shortstops. Id be good with hart and thornberg or peralta for machado.

[monty57]

You're insane if you wouldn't trade hart for machado. Its hardly filling one hole by creating another since of is the only position the brewers have any depth at and machado is a top 10 prospect who many think will be the next a-rod and they have nothing for shortstops. Id be good with hart and thornberg or peralta for machado.

 

That's why I put the disclaimer at the bottom of my original post where I mentioned this trade... I didn't know if Hart would be enough. I guess I view it as kind of like our trading Lawrie for Marcum, and the only way the Orioles would go for the move is if they really think they have a shot at the division this year (like if they're still in first place in late July and think Hart could put them over the top).

 

I'm probably in the vast minority in that I would give up on this season if it means we sell early (like late June/early July) and get really good talent back in return for all the trading chips we have. Looking at the opening day roster (and their contracts), I went into this season thinking the best thing that could happen was we'd win the division and have post-season success, and the next best thing would be that we'd falter early enough that Melvin would recognize the need to sell rather than losing a lot of talent for nothing. The worst-case scenario in my mind would be for us to be mid-season buyers and still miss the playoffs, losing Greinke, Marcum and K-Rod for nothing (Wolf too if he's deemed not good enough to exercise the option).

 

Since I went into the season this way, it's probably easier for me to switch from "how do we save the season" to "how do we best help the franchise."

[TheCrew07]

Baltimore is going to want young pitching back for Hardy, which young pitcher are you guys willing to give up? Thornburg? Peralta? Remember that Jungmann and Bradley can't be traded until late August as they haven't been with the Brewers more than a year. Why young pitching? Because they are in the AL east and believe they need to build around young pitching like the Rays have done to compete with NY and Bos, there have been plenty of articles about them over the last 3 years which bear that out. People seem to forget how how good of prospects Jake Arrieta and Brian Matusz were, add Dylan Bundy and another top pitching prospect and all of a sudden you rival the Rays in terms of young talent in their pitching staff. I believe all the scouting reports require a BA subscription.

 

Maybe we could trade them Gomez for Hardy when he gets off the DL and complete the cycle! I jest, but CF is actually the one position the organization has a ton of depth at, even without D'Vo as we have 3 CFs on the MLB roster and Schafer in AAA.

[Oldcity]

Trade Hart for Machado? That's just filling one hole by creating another.

 

No, it's weakening this year's team to vastly improve future teams.

Sorry, didn't realize what you were getting at. Thought you were thinking of Machado as an answer for this year.

 

I'm not ready to write off the Brewers yet. They play in a weak division and there's an extra playoff spot this year. I like your idea of giving it another month at least and then reassessing.

[MNBrew]

I agree, too, that for at least a while they have to wait this out. I believe they will come around, at least somewhat. As lousy as it's going, there are many reasons to believe -- rationally, and breathing normal air -- that this team isn't really this bad.

 

There are a zillion reasons to believe the sky is falling, too, many of which are also true. But I just can't believe the season's gone over the cliff and it's time to start preparing to sell everyone off. Five major injuries in a couple weeks, at least 3 seasons over, the offense hardly clicking at all, and pitchers now feeling like they have to be perfect. But with the offense in a total funk, we're still only 12-17. Sure sounds like too many guys pressing WAY too hard. They have to relax and start giving themselves a chance.

 

The funny thing, though, is that we went through stretches just like this with Prince Fielder in the lineup everyday, so I'm pretty sure his absence isn't a core issue here at all.

 

Back on the point SS's, though...

 

Not meeting Hairston's demands is still proving to have been the most foolish decision of the offseason. Not going hard after Nick Punto once Hairston was gone was also a prime blunder. Cesar Izturis....yikes.... isn't really much better than Enrique Cruz at the plate anymore! Counsell sure proved he was washed up last year, at least at the plate, but I'm still pretty sure I'd sure take him back over Izturis. There's also a bit of the "clubhouse glue" factor with Counsell that might help 'em get through this, too.

[RockCoCougars]

Baltimore isn't going to trade Hardy or Machado. They are like 10 games over .500 at this point, so they aren't going to start dumping productive veterans solely to 'sell high'. For them, finishing .500 would be a major goal accomplished. I actually think that they have a pretty decent team, and they may be able to compete well into the summer if their pitching holds up. If anything, they may look to acquire pieces as opposed to selling them off. Even if Machado were ready (and he's not close), the O's could simply choose to shift Hardy to 3B as Reynolds has 'Future 1B/DH' written all over him.

[paul253]

I think the most important thing is for Milwaukee not to panic and overpay for an average veteran shortstop just so they can stay within reach of the division for a little while longer. Believe it or not all these injuries may end up being a good thing. If KRod and Marcum are still on this team at the end of the year they will lose them both without getting anything in return. If instead they trade them you'd figure they could get at least two good prospects. Greinke would net draft picks if he leaves but if traded he could land a top prospect, maybe even a Profar type prospect. Teams may overpay for Corey Hart as well. I just hope they maximize the value of some of the guys they have as opposed to patching together a .500 team and letting their pending free agents leave for nothing.

[endaround]

Get Fontenot off the Phillies AAA team already.

[JohnBriggs12]

Get Fontenot off the Phillies AAA team already.

 

I'd rather have Bianchi off the Brewers AAA team already.

[JackNicholson1974]

Would the Orioles take a healthy Carlos Gomez for Hardy?

[reillymcshane]

Would the Orioles take a healthy Carlos Gomez for Hardy?

 

Is this supposed to be blue?

[paul253]

Texas looks like the real deal this season and I wonder if they'd be interested in an upgrade from Matt Harrison. Is there any chance Jurickson Profar could be had for Greinke? Elvis Andrus is still under contract for 2 more years so it's not like they are hurting at shortstop. Milwaukee desperately needs a shortstop and Profar would be a huge upgrade over anyone in their entire system. He probably won't be ready until 2014 but he is top 10 prospect. Is this a fair deal? Maybe we could even include KRod in the deal considering their closer has an ERA over 11? Then of course we'd have to ask for more. But assuming the Brewers are still struggling at the break is Texas a team we can strike a deal with and finally walk away with a shortstop?