Rickie Weeks so far this season

[Invader3K]

I don't buy into the "He misses Prince", argument. He's 30, not some wet behind the ears kid, and he's had all off-season to reconcile with the fact that Prince was going to no longer be a Brewer.

[pete]

Invader, I thought when he got hit on the hand it would have been a good time to DL him. Let him have a few days at home getting therapy there and squeezing in a few casts of the fishing line and then head to Brevard for some rehab starts. He could hang with the youngbloods and get some weaker pitching to just get in the rhythm.

 

As to going to the minors, after his rookie year how often does he even come out of the lineup when he isn't sick or injured? I'd be totally shocked if it happened.

[Baldkin]

Weeks needs an extended hot streak to get to the level McGehee was at last year.

 

McGehee had a .280 OBP and .626 OPS last year.

 

Weeks is currently at .295/.585. It would take him about 2 good games to be at McGehee's level last year.

[monty57]

This is definitely the downside to long term contracts even if they seem fairly reasonable at the time. It's Bill Hall all over again.

 

I doubt this will be another Bill Hall situation, as Rickie has always been a good player and it was no surprise when he was a good MLB player, while Hall was never a really good player but surprisingly had some success at the MLB level. It's possible that Rickie has forgotten how to play, but I don't think it's likely.

 

As to the long term contracts, I agree that they can bite you, but they're calculated risks the Brewers have to take. I much prefer locking up stud players while they're still in pre-arby, because those contracts never really get too expensive. When you wait until they're already a ways into their arbitration years, like we did with Rickie, we're basically paying market rate and not getting much of a discount. When they're free agent deals, like Ramirez, we're almost always going to "overpay," because by nature we have to be the highest bidder out there, so we're paying more than anyone else would for the player.

[FVBrewerFan]

I don't buy that Weeks is Bill Hall/McGehee 2.0. I know it's frustrating, but Weeks has been much better than this from Beloit through last year. A month and a half is a long slump, but I just refuse to believe he has lost it.

 

I watch his swing, and it looks just as quick to me. We just saw his HR, obviously the pop is still there. So it's as simple as not swinging at the right pitches, guessing wrong, and not always making good contact on pitches he should handle. Simple to explain the problem, not so simple to correct it. Usually just works itself out when the hitter is as good as Rickie, but I wouldn't be opposed to sending him down for a couple weeks- and he shouldnt be opposed to that either.

 

If he does stay, I think most of us agree he shouldn't be hitting 2nd right now.

[dlk9s]

Just speculating, but Weeks and Fielder were pretty close. It could be Fielder's presence was a factor in keeping him in the right frame of mind to perform.

 

No. Maaaaaaybe if his numbers dropped a tiny bit. Maybe. He's a grown man. He'd have to be an incredibly weak-minded individual for his performance to just collapse because his friend is on another team.

[JohnBriggs12]

The fact is Weeks, as talented and as much power and swing speed as he has, has always found making consistent contact challenging. He's never hit .300 at any level in more than 250 plate appearances. The walks he's accumulated are great, but a certain number of them are the result of him either choosing not to swing or swinging and missing and getting deep into counts by failing to put balls into play. Gorman Thomas used to walk a lot too, but part of that was that he too had trouble putting balls in play and that resulted in a lot of deep counts.

 

Adam Dunn went through an entire season last year mired in a slump of epic proportions. That slump combined with another not quite as ghastly season by Alex Rios, killed the White Sox last year. Nobody saw that coming with Dunn either.

 

Weeks still has plenty of time to get going and he'll get that opportunity. But slumps of this magnitude can get into guys heads. We're nearly a quarter of the way into the season. That's a significant amount of time and he's hitting .154.

[JohnBriggs12]

This is definitely the downside to long term contracts even if they seem fairly reasonable at the time. It's Bill Hall all over again.

 

I doubt this will be another Bill Hall situation, as Rickie has always been a good player and it was no surprise when he was a good MLB player, while Hall was never a really good player but surprisingly had some success at the MLB level. It's possible that Rickie has forgotten how to play, but I don't think it's likely.

 

As to the long term contracts, I agree that they can bite you, but they're calculated risks the Brewers have to take. I much prefer locking up stud players while they're still in pre-arby, because those contracts never really get too expensive. When you wait until they're already a ways into their arbitration years, like we did with Rickie, we're basically paying market rate and not getting much of a discount. When they're free agent deals, like Ramirez, we're almost always going to "overpay," because by nature we have to be the highest bidder out there, so we're paying more than anyone else would for the player.

 

 

You say Bill Hall was never a really good player. So Weeks career playing at Southern that resulted in his being the 2nd overall pick trumps Hall's back to back seasons in 05 and 06 in the major leagues? I think if somehow a draft of all amateur players were held following the 06 season, and Bill Hall was declared eligible to be included in that draft, it's likely that Hall would have been selected very high up. You don't luck into an .899 OPS in 608 plate appearances in the big leagues. He clearly possessed the talent to do that. That he couldn't sustain it speaks not to his ability necessarily but the difficulty of sustaining success at the highest level of a sport.

 

Lets look at Ian Kinsler. He was drafted the same year as Weeks. Apparently the scouts didn't think he was very good either because he lasted until the 17th round. Who would you have rather had, Weeks or Kinsler?

[crewcrazy]

The fact is Weeks, as talented and as much power and swing speed as he has, has always found making consistent contact challenging. He's never hit .300 at any level in more than 250 plate appearances. The walks he's accumulated are great, but a certain number of them are the result of him either choosing not to swing or swinging and missing and getting deep into counts by failing to put balls into play. Gorman Thomas used to walk a lot too, but part of that was that he too had trouble putting balls in play and that resulted in a lot of deep counts.

 

Weeks' approach is why he gets deep into counts, not a "failure to put balls into play." He looks for pitches he can drive, and lays off ones he can't. It's an approach that has worked really, really well for him in his career. The downside is when his timing at the plate looks out of whack (like it is now), he has trouble squaring up on the pitches he is swinging at. Even now, though, the approach isn't changing -- he's rarely chasing pitches out of the zone (he's actually chasing less this year than he has over his career). For the most part, his swing rates are the same, he's just having trouble squaring up on pitches he's killed in years past.

 

It seems like the strikeouts are a big reason why people are so frustrated with him right now. Would everyone honestly feel better about Weeks right now if he was swinging at the borderline pitches and/or grounding out weakly earlier in the count instead of striking out?

[Raw Biz]

 

You say Bill Hall was never a really good player. So Weeks career playing at Southern that resulted in his being the 2nd overall pick trumps Hall's back to back seasons in 05 and 06 in the major leagues? I think if somehow a draft of all amateur players were held following the 06 season, and Bill Hall was declared eligible to be included in that draft, it's likely that Hall would have been selected very high up. You don't luck into an .899 OPS in 608 plate appearances in the big leagues. He clearly possessed the talent to do that. That he couldn't sustain it speaks not to his ability necessarily but the difficulty of sustaining success at the highest level of a sport.

 

Lets look at Ian Kinsler. He was drafted the same year as Weeks. Apparently the scouts didn't think he was very good either because he lasted until the 17th round. Who would you have rather had, Weeks or Kinsler?

 

Sometimes I think you say stuff just for the sake of saying something. It's actually not all that uncommon for guys to "luck" into a really good year. Obviously everyone in the bigs has some talent. But sometimes guys have an unreal season or two out of nowhere and then are not able to replicate it. Hall and McGehee are two Brewers who had such seasons. The key in determining whether it was "luck" or whether it was likely to happen again would be to look at a combo of past track record (amateur career, minors, previous MLB seasons, etc.) and scouting (has their approach changed, what "tools" do they have, etc.). Weeks had the track record and the tools. Hall/McGehee didn't.

 

And your argument about holding a draft after a period of time doesn't make any sense. If you held a draft after the first few weeks of 2006, Chris Shelton would have been a top 5 pick. So what? Also, your point about Ian Kinsler doesn't make sense either. Pujols lasted until the 13th round and Piazza until the 62nd round. Sometimes scouts are wrong, yes. Especially when you are looking at high school/JUCO/foreign players, there isn't as much (and perhaps not as reliable) data available compared to guys who went to major colleges. Hindsight is 20/20, there is really no point in comparing Weeks to Kinsler and where they were drafted.

[RockCoCougars]

Bill Hall was never this bad. Think about it... we are 37 games into the season and a guy who has been at or near the top of the lineup for about 90% of them has 20 hits. Think about that for a second. I don't give him much credit for the walks either because he's been so passive at the plate and has a ton of plate appearances. I'd be willing to bet that almost every one of these walks was of the 6 pitch or less variety.

[RockCoCougars]

Would everyone honestly feel better about Weeks right now if he was swinging at the borderline pitches

 

Absolutely. Weeks' overall swing percentage is down about 15% from last year and roughly 10% from his career norms. It seems that every at bat, he watches at least one or two strikes go by and often goes down swinging on a worse pitch, so he already is swinging at the borderline pitches, just later in the count. I don't think that you break out of a funk like this playing guessing games at the plate as Rickie is obviously doing.

 

Personally, I drop him to the seven spot until further notice. I'd also make him do ten pushups Willie Mays Hays style each time he takes a strike looking.

[markedman5]

"but I wouldn't be opposed to sending him down for a couple weeks- and he shouldnt be opposed to that either. "

 

As I recall Rickie was really PO the last time he was sent down and I doubt he would feel much differently now that he has made an All Star team.

 

I just don't see Triple A as an option he would be on board with and aren't there restrictions on doing that after you have been in the bigs for a certain amount of time?

[crewcrazy]

Bill Hall was never this bad. Think about it... we are 37 games into the season and a guy who has been at or near the top of the lineup for about 90% of them has 20 hits. Think about that for a second. I don't give him much credit for the walks either because he's been so passive at the plate and has a ton of plate appearances. I'd be willing to bet that almost every one of these walks was of the 6 pitch or less variety.

 

For what it's worth, Weeks is 13th in all of MLB in Pitches/Plate Appearance this year at 4.23. His 14.7% BB% (taking "he gets so many plate appearances" out of the equation) is also 13th in MLB. And since you asked, number of pitches for each of Weeks' walks this year:

 

[pre]Apr 10 - 6

Apr 10 - 5

Apr 11 - 4

Apr 13 - 4

Apr 14 - 5

Apr 15 - 5

Apr 18 - 5

Apr 18 - 5 (IBB after a steal)

Apr 21 - 6

Apr 22 - 6

Apr 24 - 6

Apr 28 - 6

Apr 28 - 5

Apr 29 - 5

Apr 30 - 6

Apr 30 - 5

May 1 - 4

May 4 - 4

May 4 - 5

May 5 - 6

May 8 - 6

May 9 - 4

May 11 - 4[/pre]

 

So six 4-pitch BBs, nine 5-pitch BBs, eight 6-pitch BBs. So yes, they're all "six pitches or less," but very few players are going to see more than 6 pitches in an AB, let alone walk after 6+ pitches.

[RockCoCougars]

There is no point in sending Rickie to AAA despite the foolish precedent was sent went they scapegoated Hardy for the massive failure that was 2009 (his 2009 doesn't look so bad all of a sudden). If things blow up this season like they did last time they were coming off a playoff season, I sure hope that they are more professional this time and don't start scapegoating certain guys.

 

I don't think they are able to do this anyway without Rickie's permission. I know that they had to ask Bill Hall whether he would go to Nashville.

[Dollarbill13]

I really have no idea where this conversation is going anymore. Rickie does have trouble putting the ball in play. His contact rate on strikes is 82% this year (84% for his career) compared to a league average of 88%. What's really interesting is that his contact rate on balls is only 50% vs a league average of about 68%. He's below league average in swinging % on both strikes and balls. I would *think* is makes sense as a strategy for someone who doesn't make contact as well. When he does make contact, he usually hits it hard. So it might be frustrating to watch Weeks even when he's having a solid season but he's always put up pretty good numbers.

 

This year he's having an awful year. Our options are to either cut him, trade him at his all time low, bench him, or let him play through it. I kind of think this is going to be a lost season regardless of Weeks' performance so I'd rather let him play through it and try to at least build back his value.

[rluzinski]

We are going to send Weeks to AAA to give Conrad or Maysonet some starts? Weeks would never agree to being sent down anyway but what would be the point?

[adambr2]

Interesting scenario: Suppose Weeks continued a poor season, say maybe around .200 mid-season. Say we're out of contention, he's put on waivers in August, and somebody claims him and the remainder of his contract. Has he fallen that far where you let him walk for nothing but salary relief like the Jays did with Rios a couple years ago? Or do you pull him back and hope things turn around the next 3 years?

[Gobias Industries]

I think you no question let him go if you're out of it and maybe want to start a mini rebuild phase. I'd let him go without a thought, but I'm biased. I don't think Weeks' has ever been a guy who you can count on to move the needle during tight games or playoff races. And as we have seen this year, during his prolonged slumps he's prone to, for decent chunks of time he's just about the most useless player in the game. Just too many flaws.

 

Why Melvin decided to give an extension to Weeks after he had a career year in almost every category and stayed completely healthy will always be a mystery to me. They could of easily made him stay healthy and do it again the next year (2011) and probably have gotten close to the same deal if he put up another year like '10. With how it played out (the ankle injury and terrible playoff performance), I think you'd be resigning Weeks for cheaper than the 4/40 he got.

 

Also, why keep Rickie with his long, expensive deal when you can just go out and sign a Kelly Johnson or Jerry Hairston in the off season for a much cheaper and shorter deal and get close to the same production?

[rluzinski]

4 years, $38 mil is a long, expensive contract? Is it 1994 again? I think some longtime baseball fans are struggling with the notion that average players get $10 mil/year these days. Right or wrong, that's the market.

 

And the idea that there's any possibility that Weeks is put on waivers this year is pretty unbelievable, in my opinion. If Melvin wants salary relief, he can trade him for nothing and recoup over 50% of his current contract, easy. Putting him on waivers would result in a significant risk of recouping 0%.

[adambr2]

4 years, $38 mil is a long, expensive contract? Is it 1994 again? I think some longtime baseball fans are struggling with the notion that average players get $10 mil/year these days. Right or wrong, that's the market.

 

And the idea that there's any possibility that Weeks is put on waivers this year is pretty unbelievable, in my opinion. If Melvin wants salary relief, he can trade him for nothing and recoup over 50% of his current contract, easy. Putting him on waivers would result in a significant risk of recouping 0%.

 

I'm not sure what you are saying here. If a team puts a player on waivers and another team picks him up, the team that picked him up pays the rest of the contract in its entirety. There is no risk in putting him on waivers if your goal is to dump his salary.

[longball04]

In a dejavu post: "Give him a couple days off."

 

Also, some things that have always bothered me about Weeks, even though I still like the kid.

 

1) Notice when he swings and fouls a fastball back his top hand sometimes comes off the bat then he sits there and looks at it, as if it is hurt or something?

2) He's taking too many pitches. In his first two at bats (first two pitches of his first at bat), he watched cookie pitches right down the middle to start off the at-bat. First pitch fastballs taste really good. What happened to Mr. Aggressive up there? I hate to blame Narron, but is Narron telling these guys to work the count? Don't you think other teams know that by now?

3) He's still falling all over the plate. Even on check swings he's falling onto the plate and across it. He has no balance whatsoever. And to prove my point, I sat there and watched everyone else and NO ONE else has that problem. Maybe one step forward or on to the plate on an outside pitch, but he is literally falling and flailing.

 

Either RR has to bench him for a couple of days or move him down to the 7th or 8th spot in the order. We have plenty of guys who can make contact. At this point and time, we would be better served having Izturis (who can throw it farther than he can hit it) hitting second than Weeks. FYI - I washed my mouth out after saying that because Izturis is just as bad. But at least he makes friggin contact.

 

I don't think Weeks has any value right now to any team. I really believe that. Therefore, he has to get things back. But this team needs to start a winning streak and a guy who can't move runners is wasting a spot in the lineup. I have actually now boycotted this team until he has been sat.

[JohnBriggs12]

Interesting scenario: Suppose Weeks continued a poor season, say maybe around .200 mid-season. Say we're out of contention, he's put on waivers in August, and somebody claims him and the remainder of his contract. Has he fallen that far where you let him walk for nothing but salary relief like the Jays did with Rios a couple years ago? Or do you pull him back and hope things turn around the next 3 years?

 

The Jays still can't believe anyone claimed Rios with $60 million left on his deal. But Rios was hitting .264/.317/.427 at the time. So it wasn't like he was 2012 Weeks bad. Luckily for Kenny Williams, his WS title gave him job security because the Rios claim hasn't exactly worked out. By August, Weeks will be down to $34 million or so left (assuming he reaches 600 PA in 14). If there's a big market team desperate for a 2B, and Weeks has picked it up some, it's certainly worth a try.

 

Even in what will go down as Weeks' career year of 2010, there were red flags. That year he fanned once every 3.53 AB. That was worse than his rookie year of 2005 when he fanned once every 3.75 AB. This season he's fanning at a rate that would make Branyan blush, once every 2.76 AB. Yes his pitch selection is atrocious but more than that, he's got holes in his swing that are growing.

[3and2Fastball]

I really think at this point they need to DL Rickie Weeks and give him a few days off with a rehab assignment in Appleton & Nashville to get his swing and confidence back. They can't embarass him by just sending him to the minors but they could DL him and say "we're still a little concerned about that hand, it is still giving him troubles" etc

[Raw Biz]

I really think at this point they need to DL Rickie Weeks and give him a few days off with a rehab assignment in Appleton & Nashville to get his swing and confidence back. They can't embarass him by just sending him to the minors but they could DL him and say "we're still a little concerned about that hand, it is still giving him troubles" etc

 

I agree. Yes I know the options aren't great to replace him but at this point, he has looked so bad I don't think it would do any harm to let Green take over 2B and Ishikawa have 1B. Have Weeks (hopefully) destroy minor-league pitching for a week on a rehab assignment and bring him back up. I know Weeks would never agree to it but even he has to realize how bad he's been. He just looks defeated after every AB.

 

I also honestly can't believe he hasn't taken it upon himself to ask to be moved down in the order. ARam basically told Roenicke he was sucking and should maybe be moved and ARam seems a lot more hard-headed than Weeks. I know there are other problems with the team right now and Weeks batting 2nd or 6th/7th might not make that much of a difference. But having him flail away up there just looking awful only magnifies how bad they've been. To add to the redundancy of this thread, moving him down couldn't really do any more harm. He's hitting .156. Yes he's walking a lot but I would trade some walks if it meant he'd be a little more aggressive on strikes down the middle so he can actually get some hits. It's just depressing to watch.