Rickie Weeks so far this season

[monty57]

Mark A has already said that payroll over 90 million is not sustainable for this franchise, that last year and this year are extreme opportunities, and Rickie will be making 11 million for 3 more years. so when payroll returns to reality in milwaukee in the coming seasons (70-80 mil), his contract will most definitely be an albatross.

 

2013 Committments: Weeks $10MM, Ramirez $10MM, Braun $8.5MM, Aoki $1.25MM, Gallardo $7.75MM, Hart $10MM, Lucroy $1.9MM, Wolf $1.5MM(?) buyout

 

If we go to $70-80MM, that means we'd have $20-30MM for 18 players, seven of whom could be in arbitration (Axford, Gomez, Ishikawa, Kottaras, Morgan, Narveson, Parra) and not a lot of top-line talent in pre-arby. We'd have to rebuild our starting rotation and bullpen plus find a SS all for around $10-15MM. I can't think we'd even pretend to be competitive in this scenario.

 

Unless we really lose season ticket sales and go into full rebuild mode, I think we'll at least have a payroll in the $80MM's, but even so it is pretty important for all the guys in the top line (Weeks, Ramirez, Braun, Aoki, Gallardo, Hart, Lucroy) to remain productive. I don't think he will, but if Weeks hits as poorly over the course of his contract as he has this season he will definitely be an "albatross" for the Brewers for the next few years.

[torts]

Mark A has already said that payroll over 90 million is not sustainable for this franchise, that last year and this year are extreme opportunities, and Rickie will be making 11 million for 3 more years. so when payroll returns to reality in milwaukee in the coming seasons (70-80 mil), his contract will most definitely be an albatross.

 

2013 Committments: Weeks $10MM, Ramirez $10MM, Braun $8.5MM, Aoki $1.25MM, Gallardo $7.75MM, Hart $10MM, Lucroy $1.9MM, Wolf $1.5MM(?) buyout

 

If we go to $70-80MM, that means we'd have $20-30MM for 18 players, seven of whom could be in arbitration (Axford, Gomez, Ishikawa, Kottaras, Morgan, Narveson, Parra) and not a lot of top-line talent in pre-arby. We'd have to rebuild our starting rotation and bullpen plus find a SS all for around $10-15MM. I can't think we'd even pretend to be competitive in this scenario.

 

Unless we really lose season ticket sales and go into full rebuild mode, I think we'll at least have a payroll in the $80MM's, but even so it is pretty important for all the guys in the top line (Weeks, Ramirez, Braun, Aoki, Gallardo, Hart, Lucroy) to remain productive. I don't think he will, but if Weeks hits as poorly over the course of his contract as he has this season he will definitely be an "albatross" for the Brewers for the next few years.

 

just going by what the team owner says. he has said he lost money on the team last year and was completely fine with that to be in the playoffs, but a team owner is not going to lose money on a team that wins 75 games. If they do not make the playoffs, or even make .500, next year could be very interesting, especially with talks about wanting to keep Greinke.

[longball04]

How do you push over 3million fans through the gates, charge them $10-$20 to park, $6.50 for a beer, $3 for a bottle of water, have a payroll around $100 million, plus make the playoffs, have increased merchandise sales, a huge tv contract, and lose money? I don't get it. I thought he was an investor.

 

37,000 fans average attendance (81 games and 3mil fans). $20 average ticket price. That's almost 3/4 of a million just in ticket cost right there for every game. That doesn't even include concessions and parking. Are those separate contracts? I guess I don't see how you lose money in this scenario.

[jerichoholicninja]

How do you push over 3million fans through the gates, charge them $10-$20 to park, $6.50 for a beer, $3 for a bottle of water, have a payroll around $100 million, plus make the playoffs, have increased merchandise sales, a huge tv contract, and lose money? I don't get it. I thought he was an investor.

 

37,000 fans average attendance (81 games and 3mil fans). $20 average ticket price. That's almost 3/4 of a million just in ticket cost right there for every game. That doesn't even include concessions and parking. Are those separate contracts? I guess I don't see how you lose money in this scenario.

 

I believe the Brewers do not get much, if anything, from parking or concessions. I think most of that money goes to the companies that run them. I also believe that ticket sales make up a very small portion of an organization's income. I know I've seen links posted here before with breakdowns about where team's make money from but I'm pretty sure the vast majority of it comes from the TV contract.

[Baldkin]

1) You have to pay everyone who works for the Brewers, from Doug Melvin and RRR on down to the minor league guys in Helena and the guy selling cotton candy. Those costs also add up.

2) There is debt on the team/stadium that needs to be paid down - still well over 100 million.

3) The Brewers have the lowest TV deal in all of MLB, so most of their money is from ticket sales.

 

They only had 19.2 million in operating income last season. That's before taxes and interest payments are taken into account. It's easy to see how they could've lost money.

[longball04]

1) You have to pay everyone who works for the Brewers, from Doug Melvin and RRR on down to the minor league guys in Helena and the guy selling cotton candy. Those costs also add up.

2) There is debt on the team/stadium that needs to be paid down - still well over 100 million.

3) The Brewers have the lowest TV deal in all of MLB, so most of their money is from ticket sales.

 

They only had 19.2 million in operating income last season. That's before taxes and interest payments are taken into account. It's easy to see how they could've lost money.

I wasn't privy to the financial statements, hence why I couldn't understand how they could lose money.

[RockCoCougars]

I HIGHLY doubt that the Brewers are losing money, or even that close to breakeven on a 'non paper/real basis' for that matter. Mark A is a smart guy... just look at how much money they have been spending on stadium improvements over the past several years. Depending on how it is distributed, depreciation expenses can significantly reduce net income and in turn, reduce taxes. I guarantee that Attanasio has a group of accountants that can move things around to pretty much show a small profit or loss every year.

[monty57]

Mark A has already said that payroll over 90 million is not sustainable for this franchise, that last year and this year are extreme opportunities, and Rickie will be making 11 million for 3 more years. so when payroll returns to reality in milwaukee in the coming seasons (70-80 mil), his contract will most definitely be an albatross.

 

2013 Committments: Weeks $10MM, Ramirez $10MM, Braun $8.5MM, Aoki $1.25MM, Gallardo $7.75MM, Hart $10MM, Lucroy $1.9MM, Wolf $1.5MM(?) buyout

 

If we go to $70-80MM, that means we'd have $20-30MM for 18 players, seven of whom could be in arbitration (Axford, Gomez, Ishikawa, Kottaras, Morgan, Narveson, Parra) and not a lot of top-line talent in pre-arby. We'd have to rebuild our starting rotation and bullpen plus find a SS all for around $10-15MM. I can't think we'd even pretend to be competitive in this scenario.

 

Unless we really lose season ticket sales and go into full rebuild mode, I think we'll at least have a payroll in the $80MM's, but even so it is pretty important for all the guys in the top line (Weeks, Ramirez, Braun, Aoki, Gallardo, Hart, Lucroy) to remain productive. I don't think he will, but if Weeks hits as poorly over the course of his contract as he has this season he will definitely be an "albatross" for the Brewers for the next few years.

 

just going by what the team owner says. he has said he lost money on the team last year and was completely fine with that to be in the playoffs, but a team owner is not going to lose money on a team that wins 75 games. If they do not make the playoffs, or even make .500, next year could be very interesting, especially with talks about wanting to keep Greinke.

 

I don't doubt the payroll will go down. I believe Attanasio/Melvin said the budget going into this year was supposed to be around $90MM, and that was for a "playoff year." That changed when K-Rod accepted arby, pushing this year's payroll around $100MM. I just don't think we can field any kind of a competitive team for $70-80MM next year unless we "sell" this year. The thoughts of going for it this year and then trying to remain competitive next year with $30MM less in payroll don't coincide. Add that the comp picks we'd get for Greinke and Marcum would add another $6MM or so in signing bonuses, and Melvin won't have much money to fill in all the holes we'll have in the roster this offseason.

 

I'm curious, was this in a recent interview? If so, Attanasio may be starting the "spin" before selling... "we're willing to lose money for the playoffs, but not if we aren't going to make the playoffs" sounds kind of like "we're going to save a lot of money by trading expensive guys who we'd lose anyway, and we'll pick up inexpensive, young talent who will fill out the roster for league minimum salary so we can have a $70MM payroll for a few years until we're playoff ready again."

 

First step was to let the fans know we made a good effort to extend Greinke. Second step is to get people to understand that this is an owner who is willing to lose money for the playoffs. Third step will be to let the fans know without a doubt that we are going to lose a lot of talented free agents at the end of the year. Finally, we'll hear that we had a playoff roster going into the season, but injuries (probably won't throw Weeks and others under the bus) derailed our chance at the playoffs, so rather then lose the players to free agency (remember we really tried to sign them) we will trade them for some exciting prospects who will allow us to remain competitive.

 

Then the Brewers' brass will go into their office, crack a bottle of Canadian Club and hope that (A) the prospects pan out and (B) fans buy the "spin" enough to continue to purchase tickets. If enough season tickets are sold early, Melvin may be able to make a "splash" and sign a name people will recognize on the free agent market.

[Funketown]

I HIGHLY doubt that the Brewers are losing money, or even that close to breakeven on a 'non paper/real basis' for that matter. Mark A is a smart guy... just look at how much money they have been spending on stadium improvements over the past several years. Depending on how it is distributed, depreciation expenses can significantly reduce net income and in turn, reduce taxes. I guarantee that Attanasio has a group of accountants that can move things around to pretty much show a small profit or loss every year.

 

Yeah, sports franchises are very good at crying poor when they're making money. Hasn't the value of the franchise also pretty much doubled in the past 8 seasons as well?

[torts]

Mark A has already said that payroll over 90 million is not sustainable for this franchise, that last year and this year are extreme opportunities, and Rickie will be making 11 million for 3 more years. so when payroll returns to reality in milwaukee in the coming seasons (70-80 mil), his contract will most definitely be an albatross.

 

2013 Committments: Weeks $10MM, Ramirez $10MM, Braun $8.5MM, Aoki $1.25MM, Gallardo $7.75MM, Hart $10MM, Lucroy $1.9MM, Wolf $1.5MM(?) buyout

 

If we go to $70-80MM, that means we'd have $20-30MM for 18 players, seven of whom could be in arbitration (Axford, Gomez, Ishikawa, Kottaras, Morgan, Narveson, Parra) and not a lot of top-line talent in pre-arby. We'd have to rebuild our starting rotation and bullpen plus find a SS all for around $10-15MM. I can't think we'd even pretend to be competitive in this scenario.

 

Unless we really lose season ticket sales and go into full rebuild mode, I think we'll at least have a payroll in the $80MM's, but even so it is pretty important for all the guys in the top line (Weeks, Ramirez, Braun, Aoki, Gallardo, Hart, Lucroy) to remain productive. I don't think he will, but if Weeks hits as poorly over the course of his contract as he has this season he will definitely be an "albatross" for the Brewers for the next few years.

 

just going by what the team owner says. he has said he lost money on the team last year and was completely fine with that to be in the playoffs, but a team owner is not going to lose money on a team that wins 75 games. If they do not make the playoffs, or even make .500, next year could be very interesting, especially with talks about wanting to keep Greinke.

 

I don't doubt the payroll will go down. I believe Attanasio/Melvin said the budget going into this year was supposed to be around $90MM, and that was for a "playoff year." That changed when K-Rod accepted arby, pushing this year's payroll around $100MM. I just don't think we can field any kind of a competitive team for $70-80MM next year unless we "sell" this year. The thoughts of going for it this year and then trying to remain competitive next year with $30MM less in payroll don't coincide. Add that the comp picks we'd get for Greinke and Marcum would add another $6MM or so in signing bonuses, and Melvin won't have much money to fill in all the holes we'll have in the roster this offseason.

 

I'm curious, was this in a recent interview? If so, Attanasio may be starting the "spin" before selling... "we're willing to lose money for the playoffs, but not if we aren't going to make the playoffs" sounds kind of like "we're going to save a lot of money by trading expensive guys who we'd lose anyway, and we'll pick up inexpensive, young talent who will fill out the roster for league minimum salary so we can have a $70MM payroll for a few years until we're playoff ready again."

 

First step was to let the fans know we made a good effort to extend Greinke. Second step is to get people to understand that this is an owner who is willing to lose money for the playoffs. Third step will be to let the fans know without a doubt that we are going to lose a lot of talented free agents at the end of the year. Finally, we'll hear that we had a playoff roster going into the season, but injuries (probably won't throw Weeks and others under the bus) derailed our chance at the playoffs, so rather then lose the players to free agency (remember we really tried to sign them) we will trade them for some exciting prospects who will allow us to remain competitive.

 

Then the Brewers' brass will go into their office, crack a bottle of Canadian Club and hope that (A) the prospects pan out and (B) fans buy the "spin" enough to continue to purchase tickets. If enough season tickets are sold early, Melvin may be able to make a "splash" and sign a name people will recognize on the free agent market.

 

interview was from the fall/winter after the playoffs. saying how even with playoff revenue he's still expecting to be in the red after last seasons run.

 

signing bonuses for draft picks do not reflect in your overall salary total for a team. that money comes from a budget set aside for the draft.

[RockCoCougars]

I HIGHLY doubt that the Brewers are losing money, or even that close to breakeven on a 'non paper/real basis' for that matter. Mark A is a smart guy... just look at how much money they have been spending on stadium improvements over the past several years. Depending on how it is distributed, depreciation expenses can significantly reduce net income and in turn, reduce taxes. I guarantee that Attanasio has a group of accountants that can move things around to pretty much show a small profit or loss every year.

 

Yeah, sports franchises are very good at crying poor when they're making money. Hasn't the value of the franchise also pretty much doubled in the past 8 seasons as well?

 

Ah yes, the unrealized gains. People often forget that the franchise value is likely much more important to the ownership than year to year financial gains/losses (unless the franchise is absolutely hemorrhaging money or the ownership group is shoestring, don't think that is the case here). This is not a comic book store or a lemonade stand, and a small loss is not going to sink the ship. I'm sure that the Attanasio ownership group assumed a ton of debt, but I'd also be willing to bet that their debt burden is not high when compared to other major league franchises- I'm sure that they took advantage of low rates during the past several years and refinanced a lot of that debt under more favorable terms as well. Sports franchises generally make for a great medium to long term investment vehicle. As with most businesses, with sports franchises, it seems that the price tag is driven more by assets and revenues than it is profitability. Bottom line, I'd be willing to bet that very few people have actually sold a franchise at a loss. More often then not, when a franchise is sold, the gains are over 100 percent, sometimes several times that. That makes for a nice ROI doesn't it?

[Patrick425]

How do you push over 3million fans through the gates, charge them $10-$20 to park, $6.50 for a beer, $3 for a bottle of water, have a payroll around $100 million, plus make the playoffs, have increased merchandise sales, a huge tv contract, and lose money? I don't get it. I thought he was an investor.

 

37,000 fans average attendance (81 games and 3mil fans). $20 average ticket price. That's almost 3/4 of a million just in ticket cost right there for every game. That doesn't even include concessions and parking. Are those separate contracts? I guess I don't see how you lose money in this scenario.

 

I actually sometimes wonder just the opposite. So, under what you outlined above, that's $69M in gate revenue. Add to that whatever they get from parking/concessions, merchandising, TV Revenue, whatever revenue sharing they might participate in. Maybe it comes to $200M? I have no idea, but I would love to know.

 

However, what many people forget is that it's just not the 25 man roster player's salaries. They also have to pay all their minor leaguers (including coaches and trainers), office staff, beneefits, equipment, travel expenses..it seems to be an endless stream of expenses.

 

I'm not suggesting that I don't think any team is making money, I just don't get it when people say..Oh, every owner is making tons of money (I'm not talking about increase if franchise value). What are your calculations on that?

[logan82]

I remember a some point it was stated that the MLB salaries only account for half a team's expenses. I can't remember where though.

 

I wonder what Miller Park's electric bill is.

[TheCrew07]

I HIGHLY doubt that the Brewers are losing money, or even that close to breakeven on a 'non paper/real basis' for that matter. Mark A is a smart guy... just look at how much money they have been spending on stadium improvements over the past several years. Depending on how it is distributed, depreciation expenses can significantly reduce net income and in turn, reduce taxes. I guarantee that Attanasio has a group of accountants that can move things around to pretty much show a small profit or loss every year.

 

Yeah, sports franchises are very good at crying poor when they're making money. Hasn't the value of the franchise also pretty much doubled in the past 8 seasons as well?

 

I've been wondering this a while, but why is there such a double standard in sports when it comes to money.

 

It's okay for players, coaches, & GMs to make as much money as possible but for owners if they are making a profit then they are greedy and if they are losing money then they are lying or whining about it. Why is the perception of sports that it's a business for the employee but the owner has a responsibility to straddle the line and possibly lose money because he or she can just borrow against the value of the franchise to make up the difference? Why is it wrong for the people who actually take all the risk in any sport, the owners, to run a profitable business?

 

If the team loses on the field but the owner makes money is seems to me that many fans will chastise the owner for not doing everything they can to win, it doesn't matter what sport. "What does he care as long as he makes his money?", we even heard that around Green Bay through late 80s and early 90s without an owner to greedily take "all the profit". How is it profiteering when your business makes a reasonable profit? Isn't that why businesses exist in the first place? To provide some sort of good or service for profit?

The same businesses that provide many of us with a high enough standard of living (I don't own my own business and work for a major corporation) to support our families? The regardless what happens, the Brewers do provide entertainment win or lose, is it just because it's not our personal money that so many people advocate maxing the payroll from year to year regardless of sport?

 

I don't understand the logic of spending money to spend money and it's difficult to argue that the Brewers have spent money wisely on the whole over the last 6-7 years. I'm all for investing in impact talent and extending those players out into their early 30s if you can, but there's just no way I'm interested to having any player locked into big money going into their mid 30s. Extending aging players for fear of the unknown or signing relief pitchers market deals just isn't good value on the dollar. The idea should be to extend or sign a player who is an extremely good bet to exceed or provide even value on the contract, not to hope a player performs to the level of his salary or stays healthy enough to perform in enough games to meet his value. The risk of injury rises dramatically with age, and if you don't have depth as organization a couple of key injuries can derail any particular season. Depth of talent is much more important that how much the organization is spending on the talent on the field, we made it through 2011 with worse depth in the minors than we have now and just because it worked out in the best way possible doesn't mean that the Brewers' front office strategy has been sound. We could have just as easily went through this same thing from an injury/depth standpoint last year as well...

 

Carrying a $100 million payroll to play .500ish ball is a waste in Milwaukee when the budget is stretched so tight, many teams are doing more with less. It's not about how much the Brewers spend, it's about where they spend it.

[rwa12]

I'm sure on a cash in/cash out basis they are doing fine. If I'm not mistaken, ownership can take losses on stadium depreciation, and a variety of other things, to offset cash coming in. If they turn too much profit, they pay too much in taxes. If they can take losses, they can make it so the bottom line evens out, although in a traditional sense, they are making money. To the world, he is losing money. I don't believe that it has anything to do with insolvency though.

[monty57]

signing bonuses for draft picks do not reflect in your overall salary total for a team. that money comes from a budget set aside for the draft.

 

Right, but the money comes from the same revenue pool, so if the budget set aside for the draft is $10MM more than normal, there will be $10MM less somewhere else. The vendors and electric company aren't going to take cuts, so the money probably has to either come out of MLB payroll or owner profits or they could borrow it, taking it out of future budgets.

 

If I'm not mistaken, ownership can take losses on stadium depreciation, and a variety of other things, to offset cash coming in.

 

They are a limited partnership, so I believe profits and losses should be passed directly to the owners' personal taxes in direct proportion to ownership interest. (i.e. if someone owns 25% of the team, they get 25% of the team's profits or losses attributed to their personal taxes)

 

I don't believe that it has anything to do with insolvency though.

 

I'm sure the Brewers are doing fine, but any company which loses enough money over time will go bankrupt. Guaranteed contracts and the "thrill of the game" can lead to bad decisions crippling a franchise for an extended period, and has led to teams going bankrupt (I don't know the circumstances, but the Rangers were just bought out of bankruptcy and the Diamondbacks always seem to be teetering on bankruptcy).

[Funketown]

Crew, I don't think either of us is calling out owners. Just that they have a very clear incentive to make their financial situation look more dire than it is. My point is that we should be taking A with a grain of salt.

[brewmann04]

the bottom line this team goes no where unless Weeks turns this around big time

[rluzinski]

the bottom line this team goes no where unless Weeks turns this around big time

Weeks turning it around might represent a couple extra wins over the rest of the season. That would certainly help but its just one small part.

[rluzinski]

the bottom line this team goes no where unless Weeks turns this around big time

Weeks turning it around might represent a couple extra wins over the rest of the season. That would certainly help but its just one small part.

[brwrsfan]

Weeks turning it around may help us win some games, but it won't be enough to make up for the significant part he has had with all of the losses so far this season.

 

It's to the point where this season is close to being over IMO. The last two games were right there for the taking (tonight especially) and we find a way to give them away to a team that quite frankly is pretty horrible. This is either the beginning of the end or the point where they look back as the bottom and the spot they turned it around. I see that last option being very unlikely with the current roster.

[PrinceEatMeat]

This just in. Looks like Rickie cut off his dreads based on this pic Nyjer Morgan just tweeted. Maybe he's decided to go the superstitious route himself now.

 

[RockCoCougars]

This just in. Looks like Rickie cut off his dreads based on this pic Nyjer Morgan just tweeted. Maybe he's decided to go the superstitious route himself now.

 

 

Thank God. Hopefully Axford and Gallardo are next.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Guess it's a false alarm. He still has the pony tail in the back. Looks buzzed on the top and sides though, so weird hairstyle right now.

[brewmann04]

Weeks has been terrible he needs to be benched