What do you think we have in Aoki?

[TooLiveBrew]

Not impressed at all by his defense. He seems slow to react and doesn't have the foot speed to make up for it.

The "Mays" catch he made recently calls this into question a bit. I'm not really sure what I see with him on defense, I really don't think I've seen enough of him yet.

[DHonks]

I wasn't meaning to trash Gomez. Gomez is usually ranked around the 3rd or 4th best in the majors, Morgan around the 6th or 7th best in the majors. Both occasionally get awful reads on balls but have the speed to make up for that. However, when having to run straight back on the ball, I like how Morgan seems to track down more of them. to the sides they are even or a slight edge to Gomez. Coming in on balls I like Gomez more.

[3and2Fastball]

Johnny Damon throws like someone's Grandma. Aoki's arm isn't as bad as Damon's but it is pretty bad. Seems like a good slap hitter though

[HiAndTight]

I won't debate the arm, but Morgan is a better defender than Aoki. One nice over the shoulder catch from Aoki does not count for more than 3+ seasons of Morgan grading out as an above-average to very good defender in just about every metric (aside from however they measure arm strength). I really don't think it's even that close. And that's not me saying I have a problem with the way Aoki plays defense in CF...I just don't understand people saying Morgan is a bad defender.

 

 

And what "metric," are you using to declare Aoki an inferior CF'er?

 

You can't cite Morgan's defensive metrics when arguing who's better between he and Aoki as Aoki has 6 weeks in the big leagues.

 

I'd rather have Aoki out there in every respect. And Morgan is a good OF'er. But again, this is another example where people just go to a website(IMO) type in a name, look at some numbers and make a decision over another player who hasn't even accumulated these stats yet.

[HiAndTight]

Johnny Damon throws like someone's Grandma. Aoki's arm isn't as bad as Damon's but it is pretty bad. Seems like a good slap hitter though

 

 

Do you mean Morgan's arm isn't that bad? Because Aoki's arm blows Morgan's out of the water and shouldn't even be compared to Damon.

 

I assume that was a typo.

[TooLiveBrew]

Aoki made a throw after catching a ball in CF on the warning track in San Francisco that I had to rewind the DVR & re-watch two or three times to make sure I hadn't seen it wrong. He threw the ball on a line (meaning, in the air the whole way) from the warning track & just overshot the cutoff man (Izturis iirc), who was about four or five steps out in the outfield from 2B. I think it's safe to say his arm is just fine. He hardly even looked like he had to put a lot on that throw.

[The stache]

Aoki looked much quicker than I expected when he ran that infield single out today.

 

I like him. I really like him. He's getting comfortable in the majors, and the guy can flat out hit. He's only 30, and his game will translate well as he ages.

 

He brings something the Brewers desperately need: small ball. The Crew needs guys that can hit, and get on base, and aren't trying to hit it out of the park all the time. Aoki brings that.

[HiAndTight]

Aoki made a throw after catching a ball in CF on the warning track in San Francisco that I had to rewind the DVR & re-watch two or three times to make sure I hadn't seen it wrong. He threw the ball on a line (meaning, in the air the whole way) from the warning track & just overshot the cutoff man (Izturis iirc), who was about four or five steps out in the outfield from 2B. I think it's safe to say his arm is just fine. He hardly even looked like he had to put a lot on that throw.

 

 

Yeah, we're not talking Gomez good because he has a arm that would easily-easily play in RF, but he's got a very good arm all the same.

[monty57]

Gomez's defense spoils people to the point that when you watch others play CF, you think they're bad. It's kind of like watching Favre in the 1990's. You watch other teams play and wonder why the other QBs can't make the plays Favre did. He just does things others can't do. Relative to Gomez, Aoki looks slow defensively, but relative to the "average CF" I think he's good. Offesively, I think he's a good leadoff hitter, but for the Brewers he fits into Roenicke's role for a #2 hitter, who is there to "get the runner over."

 

My guess is that right now Roenicke is trying to decide whether he wants to play Aoki or Ishikawa more. If he decides on Aoki, then Hart is going to be moved to full-time 1B, and Aoki will be the primary RF/#2 hitter, with Gomez/Morgan manning CF. At the very least, that would allow for us to see what we have in Aoki.

[JohnBriggs12]

With the team as constructed as it is this year I would actually think I makes for our best lineup to have all 3 platoon in both CF and RF with Hart moving to 1B full time. It would improve our defense in the outfield and infield while improving our offense as well.

 

The pairings would be:

RHP - Morgan and Aoki

LHP - Gomez and Aoki

Occasional RHP lineup - Gomez and Morgan

 

Basically make it so everyone gets 2/3 starts in the OF.

 

Sorry if this is incoherent but I'm typing it on my phone!

 

Your lineup matrix leaves Ishikawa on the bench. I'm not sure I wouldn't prefer to have Ishikawa's power threat over Aoki's slap hitting slightly above average on base skills. I'd really prefer Ishikawa's power when Morgan is also in the lineup. A lineup that contains Morgan, Aoki, and Izturis is seriously lacking in power.

 

Now that would mean Hart would have to shuttle between RF and 1B which Roenicke seems to have problems with. But seriously, there has been tons of guys who've done just that in their careers successfully. I don't see why Hart can't. Managers need to remember the Matt Stairs defensive rule: If Stairs can negotiate playing both RF and 1B, just about anyone with some athletic skill can too and that includes Hart.

[cvollbrecht]

Your lineup matrix leaves Ishikawa on the bench. I'm not sure I wouldn't prefer to have Ishikawa's power threat over Aoki's slap hitting slightly above average on base skills. I'd really prefer Ishikawa's power when Morgan is also in the lineup. A lineup that contains Morgan, Aoki, and Izturis is seriously lacking in power.

 

Now that would mean Hart would have to shuttle between RF and 1B which Roenicke seems to have problems with. But seriously, there has been tons of guys who've done just that in their careers successfully. I don't see why Hart can't. Managers need to remember the Matt Stairs defensive rule: If Stairs can negotiate playing both RF and 1B, just about anyone with some athletic skill can too and that includes Hart.

It doesn't necessarily force Hart to flip back and forth if you do that. Ishikawa has the ability to play RF so I could see a scenario where he gets a couple starts in RF against a RHP. I just think a lineup with us using all of our solid OF's gives our infield some stability as well with a regular 1B.

[monty57]

Now that would mean Hart would have to shuttle between RF and 1B which Roenicke seems to have problems with. But seriously, there has been tons of guys who've done just that in their careers successfully.

 

Yeah, I kind of winced at Roenicke's insistance that Hart couldn't shift between first and right. Roenicke seems very set on structured roles for players. That's probably what some players like about him, but I don't think it has to be as set in stone as he makes it.

[JohnBriggs12]

I hate to go really old school, but Felipe Alou was rotated between the OF and 1B with the Braves teams of the 1960's and he was one heck of a player. It didn't affect his offense one iota.

 

It's not like it's some weird idea. Why move Ishikawa? He's played all of 3 professional innings in RF and not much more in LF. With Ishikawa in RF and Hart at 1B, you have 2 guys playing less familiar spots. That makes no sense to me.

[TooLiveBrew]

Not at all a weird idea. In fact, it's an absurdly weird idea (imo) that Hart somehow wouldn't be able to handle playing 1B. My only guess is that he's told RR he wants no part of playing 1B, maybe only as an emergency sub or something.

 

Fwiw I'd much rather have Aoki in the lineup over Ishikawa, since Aoki brings very good defense at a much tougher position in RF.

[ninja33]

And what "metric," are you using to declare Aoki an inferior CF'er?

 

You can't cite Morgan's defensive metrics when arguing who's better between he and Aoki as Aoki has 6 weeks in the big leagues.

 

I'd rather have Aoki out there in every respect. And Morgan is a good OF'er. But again, this is another example where people just go to a website(IMO) type in a name, look at some numbers and make a decision over another player who hasn't even accumulated these stats yet.

 

or you could just read my next post rather than be condescending and assume that the only way I can make a decision is by typing a name into a website and looking at some numbers.

 

yes, there are plenty of flaws. But over 3+ seasons most defensive metrics give a pretty accurate description of a player. And just about every defensive metric agrees that Nyjer Morgan is an above average to very good defender.

 

it's probably not fair for me to use metrics that need 3 seasons to say Morgan is a better defender than Aoki, for whom I am using the eye test (from the brief time we've had him, I don't think he has the speed/range to be anything more than adequate). But I still feel comfortable saying that Morgan is a good defender based on what I've seen (and that includes a weak arm and the occasional bad route to a ball) and the defensive metrics that support that conclusion.

 

And my use of defensive metrics in the initial point was to refute the person that called Morgan a "bad defender". I also stated I thought he was a better defender than Aoki, and my reasoning was better clarified in a following post which you chose to ignore.

[ninja33]

And for what it's worth (I'm putting this here because this thread has kind of a Morgan vs. Aoki feel) Morgan has a .286/.394/.304 line over his last 20 appearances (on April 22 it was .119/.119/.119 before, egads). The slugging is still abysmal and I realize that it's definitely boosted by the past two days, but even if you take those out it was .250/.345/.271. Again, the slugging is abysmal...but even before he had a great two days he was starting to pick it up, and it's nice to see that AVG and OBP split.

 

This is not a "Morgan should play over Aoki" post, but more of a "lets find room for both of them" post. Hopefully Morgan can keep that OBP up in the .345-.355 range (a double here and there would be nice) and Aoki can keep producing. With Hart moving to 1B more often (idk how often, hopefully at least against LHP), there should be enough room to get each consistent playing time.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Aoki is impressive. I'd like to see RR increase his playing time by moving Hart to 1B more often and stick Aoki in RF. Let's see what they can really do at those positions.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think Aoki would have a just-enough type arm in RF. I totally agree on Hart 1B/Aoki RF for now.

[rluzinski]

I think Aoki would have a just-enough type arm in RF. I totally agree on Hart 1B/Aoki RF for now.

The problem is that he'll probably have a "just enough" type bat as well there. I'm not saying he shouldn't get some playing time there but it's more a function of not having any decent options at 1st or the corner OF spots.

[TooLiveBrew]

Well, yeah. That's what I was talking about.