Aramis Ramirez: mental mistakes?

[Bigblast]

This is forgot about becasue the brewers won last night. Ramirez was on 2nd last night with 1 out in the 4th inning and Kottaras hit a fly ball to right field. Ramirez took off for 3rd thinking there were 2 outs, he was almost to 3rd before he realized there was only 1 out and before he could make it back to 2nd was thrown out.

 

 

I find it rediculious that a major league baseball player could make a mistake like this. Its a complete metal lapse and that shows that his head wasn't in the game. He's already off to a slow start and this kind of mistake doesn't make me think very highly of him. Maybe stuff like this is why he was on the chicago scrubs for all these years.

[zzzmanwitz]

Ramirez will be fine. If he was batting like this for 3 weeks in July, no one would even notice. He will have his numbers by the end of the year, it just looks bad right now.

[Patrick425]

I'm guessing some replies to this post will completely downplay the situation with "this stuff happens" type response. However, I'm comlpletely, 100% with you big blast. It is completely inexcusible for a MLB player (especially one with a multimillion dollar contract) to have this kind of a lapse during a game.

 

My only curiousity would be if Ed Sedar usually informs the guys on 2nd and 3rd of how many outs there are. If so, did Ramirez just not pay attention to him? If Sedar is not in the habit of reminding runners how many outs there are, I wonder why? Do 3rd base coaches generally do this in MLB. I coach youth baseball and I know we are constantly reminding the runners of the current out situation. Seems like a simple thing to do to be on the safe side.

 

Regardless of whether Sedar told him or not, this error falls completly on Ramirez's shoulders and it's really bothersome to me. I agree that it shows that his head is not completely in the game.

[monty57]

I live in Illinois and am surrounded by Cub fans. From my personal observation, Ramirez was never a well-loved player amongst Cub fans, mainly due to his slow starts ("he only hits when it doesn't matter") and what I'd tactfully call a lackadaisical attitude (they'd say he has his head in a dark orifice).

 

I'd look at his numbers and argue that he was a better player than they said he was. I hope I was right and they were wrong. I still think he'll be fine this season, but we'll regret the signing in years two and especially three of the contract.

[Bigblast]

I'm guessing some replies to this post will completely downplay the situation with "this stuff happens" type response. However, I'm comlpletely, 100% with you big blast. It is completely inexcusible for a MLB player (especially one with a multimillion dollar contract) to have this kind of a lapse during a game.

 

My only curiousity would be if Ed Sedar usually informs the guys on 2nd and 3rd of how many outs there are. If so, did Ramirez just not pay attention to him? If Sedar is not in the habit of reminding runners how many outs there are, I wonder why? Do 3rd base coaches generally do this in MLB. I coach youth baseball and I know we are constantly reminding the runners of the current out situation. Seems like a simple thing to do to be on the safe side.

 

Regardless of whether Sedar told him or not, this error falls completly on Ramirez's shoulders and it's really bothersome to me. I agree that it shows that his head is not completely in the game.

 

I didn't want to bring the amount of money he gets paid, however that makes me even more irritated that he didn't know how many outs there were. No excuse for any mlb player to have this kind of lapse, although if he wasnt a recent call up I might give him some slack for being nervous or something. Reguardless of his contract he is a veteran player that should never have a mental error like this. Not knowing how many outs there are is about the worst mental lapse a player can have.

[JohnBriggs12]

Ramirez got doubled off of 2nd base a number of times with the Cubs. In fact I remember him doing it at least once against the Brewers.

 

There's reasons the Cub fans weren't sorry to see him go and plays like that are one of them.

[Invader3K]

It's a bad mistake, but I would guess even the most established MLB players make one or two boneheaded plays like this during the course of a season. Yes, it's frustrating as a fan, but these guys are human and mistakes happen. I would guess he got a talking to in the dugout afterwards.

[Roderick]

I would give him one pass for a mental screwup. So I am not specifically mad about that play.

 

But I wonder how much better the Brewers would be with Hairston playing 3B in the short and long term. Cheaper and better defense. One would assume ARam would be better on offense in the long run, but I wouldn't bet on it. And if Green performs great, he is locked out of a position without someone being traded, whereas JHJ could have been seamlessly moved to the supersub.

[fondybrewfan]

I had a screw up in my job yesterday; it happens. It is just more visual with baseball players. Players make mental mistakes, it happens. They aren't going to be perfect 100% of the time.

[monty57]

I had a screw up in my job yesterday; it happens. It is just more visual with baseball players. Players make mental mistakes, it happens. They aren't going to be perfect 100% of the time.

 

When you guarantee someone $36,000,000, you hope major mental errors are at a minimum. I know athletes operate in a different reality, but "in the real world" if someone who makes $12MM/year has a major mental error, there are usually serious repercussions, like a company going belly-up. That's why it's hard to bring "the real world" into athletics. As far as Ramirez, as I mentioned earlier, he is kind of known for not being a real "heady" player and Melvin chose to sign him to a big deal. Melvin knew what he was getting when he signed Ramirez, so hopefully Ramirez posts a .900+ OPS season to make us dismiss the less appealing aspects of his game.

[Patrick425]

I had a screw up in my job yesterday; it happens. It is just more visual with baseball players. Players make mental mistakes, it happens. They aren't going to be perfect 100% of the time.

 

When you guarantee someone $36,000,000, you hope major mental errors are at a minimum. I know athletes operate in a different reality, but "in the real world" if someone who makes $12MM/year has a major mental error, there are usually serious repercussions, like a company going belly-up. That's why it's hard to bring "the real world" into athletics. As far as Ramirez, as I mentioned earlier, he is kind of known for not being a real "heady" player and Melvin chose to sign him to a big deal. Melvin knew what he was getting when he signed Ramirez, so hopefully Ramirez posts a .900+ OPS season to make us dismiss the less appealing aspects of his game.

 

 

Exactly! I'm just always surprised at the Blase attitude that many posters on brewerfan have towards the incredibly high salaries of MLB players and their low expectations of these same players.

[1992casey]

Just a reminder: posts pertaining to a single game belong in that day's In-Game Thread. However, it's fine to use an example from a particular game and broaden its scope to cover a wider area of interest.

 

Since some of the replies above have started to move beyond the scope of one game, I'll alter the topic title (currently "Aramis Ramirez makes mental mistake") and keep the thread open.

[RobDeer 45]

He screwed up yesterday, and that happens. My first reaction was, this guy seems to not "get it" at times. I then kind of chilled out on it. But now I'm becoming a bit worried about this contract. Someone said it yesterday and again on this thread, but I'm now kind of in the boat of wishing we went with Green and JHJ. That's kind of a win win situation. Now I do think ARam will come around and have a good season at the plate. I also think that he's an upgrade from what we had in Casey. I'm just hoping he really does care about winning and he just appears to be out of it at times.

[lukevan]

When I see the "inexcusable" comment, I wonder: what should be done after a mental mistake like this? Are you advocating he be benched as punishment? Cut? When someone says "this should never happen", I say to myself: well, it just did. It's happened before and most definitely will happen again.

 

Maybe Ramirez's mental acuity causes lapses like this but I'm not sure what a manager/coach could do about it. Ramirez obviously knows what he should do in a given situation but may be more prone to mental mistakes. It is what it is.

[fondybrewfan]

What people expect Aram to be released because he forgot the numbers of outs. Allmost every night on the highlights some player makes a mental error. Just because the guy makes a huge some of money doesn't mean he is immune from mental breakdowns from time to time. You don't think the CEO's of Fortune 500 companies never make mistakes? Professional athletes face more scrutiny than almost any other profession in the US, I just think it is just a little ridiculous that fans get on their case so much. People will make mistakes whether they are making $30,000 or $3,000,000 and the mistake for the $3 Million player isn't any worse in the grand scheme of things.

[Tedaldtada]

Many perfectionists in this crowd.

 

Maybe we should start a thread congratulating Aramis for hustling out the big triple on Monday night. Or we could congratulate him on the ball he smoked into the gap preceding his mental error.

 

And bringing salary into the equation? It just sounds bitter.

[jerichoholicninja]

This stuff happens.

[homer]

Just because a guy makes a lot of money doesn't mean he's not human. This stuff happens in baseball all the time....by guys better than Ramirez. Outfielders toss balls into the stands after two outs, pop ups fall between two infielders, pitchers forget to cover first. If it becomes a habit then you start to get angry but once a season....it happens.

[Ennder]

There isn't much of an excuse for it but this kind of thing happens a dozen times every year by a random sampling of players so it really isn't the end of the world.

[Patrick425]

Many perfectionists in this crowd.

 

Maybe we should start a thread congratulating Aramis for hustling out the big triple on Monday night. Or we could congratulate him on the ball he smoked into the gap preceding his mental error.

 

And bringing salary into the equation? It just sounds bitter.

 

 

Isn't it just logical to expect more from people who make millions of dollars? I'm not sure why that is considered being bitter or being a perfectionist? So, after paying $30 for my ticket and $10 for parking and another $10 for food and beverage, I'm suppose to applaud a multi millionaire for hustling?? I'll aplaud the triple for what it means to the Brewers chances of winning, not because the MLB player that hit it hustled. Isn't he supposed to do that?

[3and2Fastball]

I like the bat that Aramis adds to our lineup and in particular I like his approach at the plate with RISP where he works the count and has historically hurt opposing teams in situations like that.

 

He will make mental mistakes sometimes. I sense from him that he is a true professional and takes the game seriously and works towards minimizing his mistakes.

 

Prince Fielder used to make mental mistakes once every 2-3 weeks at the very least (I was going to say "weekly" but that probably isn't fair). Most of Prince's mental mistakes came in the field (throwing to the wrong base, cutting off a throw when he didn't need to etc). It happens

[Raw Biz]

Many perfectionists in this crowd.

 

Maybe we should start a thread congratulating Aramis for hustling out the big triple on Monday night. Or we could congratulate him on the ball he smoked into the gap preceding his mental error.

 

And bringing salary into the equation? It just sounds bitter.

 

 

Isn't it just logical to expect more from people who make millions of dollars? I'm not sure why that is considered being bitter or being a perfectionist? So, after paying $30 for my ticket and $10 for parking and another $10 for food and beverage, I'm suppose to applaud a multi millionaire for hustling?? I'll aplaud the triple for what it means to the Brewers chances of winning, not because the MLB player that hit it hustled. Isn't he supposed to do that?

 

If it was a rookie making the minimum who forgot the number of outs, would you not care as much because he's only making $250,000 or whatever? Probably not. It was a dumb mistake but it happens and salary shouldn't matter at all.

[Tedaldtada]

Many perfectionists in this crowd.

 

Maybe we should start a thread congratulating Aramis for hustling out the big triple on Monday night. Or we could congratulate him on the ball he smoked into the gap preceding his mental error.

 

And bringing salary into the equation? It just sounds bitter.

 

 

Isn't it just logical to expect more from people who make millions of dollars? I'm not sure why that is considered being bitter or being a perfectionist? So, after paying $30 for my ticket and $10 for parking and another $10 for food and beverage, I'm suppose to applaud a multi millionaire for hustling?? I'll aplaud the triple for what it means to the Brewers chances of winning, not because the MLB player that hit it hustled. Isn't he supposed to do that?

 

It is not logical to me. And I was not trying to imply that he should be applauded for hustling. He should be applauded for the big-spot hit. The fact that he was hustling should be evidence that he actually does care, contrary to what some people are accusing him of.

 

And for people to try to use this one play as some bit of proof that Aramis was a bad signing? That is illogical.

[Patrick425]

Many perfectionists in this crowd.

 

Maybe we should start a thread congratulating Aramis for hustling out the big triple on Monday night. Or we could congratulate him on the ball he smoked into the gap preceding his mental error.

 

And bringing salary into the equation? It just sounds bitter.

 

 

Isn't it just logical to expect more from people who make millions of dollars? I'm not sure why that is considered being bitter or being a perfectionist? So, after paying $30 for my ticket and $10 for parking and another $10 for food and beverage, I'm suppose to applaud a multi millionaire for hustling?? I'll aplaud the triple for what it means to the Brewers chances of winning, not because the MLB player that hit it hustled. Isn't he supposed to do that?

 

If it was a rookie making the minimum who forgot the number of outs, would you not care as much because he's only making $250,000 or whatever? Probably not. It was a dumb mistake but it happens and salary shouldn't matter at all.

 

Yes, I would still be upset. I beleive the minimum salary is around $500M now. But, truthfully, I would not be as upset. People seem to be really sensitive about this whole salary thing. I don't get it. Really? You don't expect more out of people who make more money? Isn't it only logical to expect there to be more mistakes from someone who is less experienced and does not make as much money?

 

Really it's the nature of this particular mistake that gets to me. Getting picked off base can be a mental mistake, but it also can be an act of just trying to be to aggresive, so I'm a little more tolerable of that type of mistake. Same with throwing to a wrong base. However, think about what forgetting how many outs there are means. You are on 2nd base. You have to be thinking what happens when the ball is hit. Do I tag up? Do I go half way? Do I just go? Am I in a force out situation? etc. In order to make these decisions, you have to know how many outs there are. It's the most important thing you need to know. If you are unsure you have an umpire nearby that can tell you. You have a half a dozen score boards that post the number of outs. You have a 3rd base coach. Does this stuff happen? Sure, but that does not mean that it's not stupid, moronic, and inexcusable. As a professional ball player, how do you not know how many outs there are? The only conclusion I can come to is that your head is not in the game, and to me, that is disrespectful of your teammates, coaches, the fans, and the game.

 

By the way, someone mentioned that he probably got talked to about it in the dugout or after the game. In this day in age I highly doubt it.

[GormanHarvey]

Roenicke said Ramirez actually came to him to talk about it...

 

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