Narveson to DL- Latest: Officially Out for the Year (Reply 81)

[GormanHarvey]

Sorry to hear about Narvy. Hopefully its minor in nature. Happy for Estrada. I think he will do well. I recall RRR mentioning a couple times this spring (and possibly the previous one?) that whenever they would give Peralta a look for a chance to start or help out the big club that he would sort of get "nervy" and try to hard too to do too much to impress. I'm totally fine with how Ron is handling this.

[TheCrew07]

How exactly can you rush someone who's already in his 23 year old season and has been pitching in the Brewer's organization since he was 17? AAA is nice for getting innings, and there is a limited amount young players will learn there, but a full season of AAA isn't necessary for MLB success. AAA is almost meaningless from a development standpoint, AAA is actually more of a storage space for MLB depth than it is anything else.

 

The question shouldn't be who has more MLB experience, the question should be which pitcher in the rotation makes the Brewers a better team? Narveson is/was a replaceable talent, as is Estrada, Peralta has the potential to be a top of the rotation starter, he's vastly more talented than Estrada. I'd much rather see what Peralta can do and get his feet wet at the same time rather than recycle Estrada back through the rotation. I'm not opposed to young pitchers working out of the pen to keep their innings down for a couple of weeks before joining the rotation but I'm not a fan of wasting service time by pitching starting pitchers out of the bullpen for an entire season.

 

I'm guessing this will require surgery, ligament tears do not heal on their own, I can see keeping Peralta down in AAA until the end of June to avoid Super 2 status but if that's going to be the case then why call him up now?

 

Generally speaking I don't care about experience much at all, about the only thing I care about is relative talent and giving said talent room to blossom and grow. If Narveson is out for the season and Peralta isn't in the rotation by July then management both on the field and in the front office are foolish.

 

Also, as far as injuries to pitchers go, nothing is worse than a shoulder injury, so here's hoping Narveson is one of the lucky ones that can return and pitch effectively after a serious shoulder injury/surgery.

 

edit. I should add that I know Peralta is likely just coming up until Loe comes back, that's why I said "then why call him up now?".

[DHonks]

hiandtight, I'm basing my assumption on Narvy being out for the year and most of next on Brewers' history. We've had two players in recent history pitch adequately with shoulder damage--Ben McDonald and Jamey Wright. Wright was never very good, but didn't seem any different because of it. McDonald was arguably our best signing in the 90s and we got great production out of him until his damaged shoulder completely blew out.

[Oxy]

How exactly can you rush someone who's already in his 23 year old season and has been pitching in the Brewer's organization since he was 17? AAA is nice for getting innings, and there is a limited amount young players will learn there, but a full season of AAA isn't necessary for MLB success. AAA is almost meaningless from a development standpoint, AAA is actually more of a storage space for MLB depth than it is anything else.

 

The question shouldn't be who has more MLB experience, the question should be which pitcher in the rotation makes the Brewers a better team? Narveson is/was a replaceable talent, as is Estrada, Peralta has the potential to be a top of the rotation starter, he's vastly more talented than Estrada. I'd much rather see what Peralta can do and get his feet wet at the same time rather than recycle Estrada back through the rotation. I'm not opposed to young pitchers working out of the pen to keep their innings down for a couple of weeks before joining the rotation but I'm not a fan of wasting service time by pitching starting pitchers out of the bullpen for an entire season.

 

I'm guessing this will require surgery, ligament tears do not heal on their own, I can see keeping Peralta down in AAA until the end of June to avoid Super 2 status but if that's going to be the case then why call him up now?

 

Generally speaking I don't care about experience much at all, about the only thing I care about is relative talent and giving said talent room to blossom and grow. If Narveson is out for the season and Peralta isn't in the rotation by July then management both on the field and in the front office are foolish.

 

Peralta wouldn't be rushed in the grand baseball sense of not being ready to contribute at some point this year; however, that's a different story than telling the kid "pack your bags, your starting tomorrow night in front of 40,000 people," when he hasn't even spent a day at Miller Park as part of the Major League ballclub. Some guys might be perfectly okay with this approach, and some guys might need more of a breaking in period. In addition, the Brewers already have a viable option in Estrada, so it really isn't that big of a deal. If Peralta can be broken in with the MLB club more softly without sacrificing victories, great.

[TooLiveBrew]

I hope the Brewers really get out ahead of Colorado tomorrow night. I'd love to see Peralta get his first appearance at MP out of the way, and in front of said 40K fans.

[Ennder]

Brewer's had a decent team in 2007 and they didn't have any problem calling up Yo and throwing him into the fire.

 

Quit babying these guys. Peralta could easily be as good if not better then Estrada and if we start him we don't weaken the pen.

 

Estrada+Mcclendon or Peralta+Estrada?

 

I'll take my chances with the later. If he gets bombed a few times you can always go to plan B.

 

Brewers had nowhere near a playoff caliber team in 2007 and Yo and Parra were both better prospects than Peralta is though Parra got derailed by injuries.

[Tedaldtada]

Brewer's had a decent team in 2007 and they didn't have any problem calling up Yo and throwing him into the fire.

 

Quit babying these guys. Peralta could easily be as good if not better then Estrada and if we start him we don't weaken the pen.

 

Estrada+Mcclendon or Peralta+Estrada?

 

I'll take my chances with the later. If he gets bombed a few times you can always go to plan B.

 

Brewers had nowhere near a playoff caliber team in 2007 and Yo and Parra were both better prospects than Peralta is though Parra got derailed by injuries.

 

No way was Parra better. At least not clearly better. I'd say they are comparable in most ways.

 

Yo just made everything look easy in the minors.

[brettac1]

Even if you feel the alternatives may have been better, it still hurts to lose a guy that can give the team a solid season's worth of starts like Narveson. It hurts the depth a great deal.

[Ennder]

I think people forget just how good Parra was in the minors and how much his stuff and more importantly his control was hurt by the injuries. We never got to see the pitcher Parra was meant to be, he was another injury casualty like so many pitchers are.

[Nottso]

I remember when Yo first came up, some people were saying "Wait til you see this Parra kid, his stuff is even better."

[dlk9s]

Peralta wouldn't be rushed in the grand baseball sense of not being ready to contribute at some point this year; however, that's a different story than telling the kid "pack your bags, your starting tomorrow night in front of 40,000 people," when he hasn't even spent a day at Miller Park as part of the Major League ballclub. Some guys might be perfectly okay with this approach, and some guys might need more of a breaking in period. In addition, the Brewers already have a viable option in Estrada, so it really isn't that big of a deal. If Peralta can be broken in with the MLB club more softly without sacrificing victories, great.

 

Yup. If anyone wants a good look at the "freak out factor," read Dirk Hayhurst's book Out of My League.

[brettac1]

I think people forget just how good Parra was in the minors and how much his stuff and more importantly his control was hurt by the injuries. We never got to see the pitcher Parra was meant to be, he was another injury casualty like so many pitchers are.

I second this. His stuff was electric. I think he will carve out a good career as a reliever, though. Too bad he didn't get to be that #2/3 starter that he had the ability to be before the injuries mounted.

[Tedaldtada]

No, I did not forget. Peralta matches him in stuff easily. The durability reports blow Parra away. Parra was always a huge injury risk.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

There is just no reason to rush Peralta. Yes, he has upside that Estrada doesn't have but Estrada is not a a big drop off from Narvy. Why not bring up Peralta when they are more certain he's ready? They have reason for some caution now...I think that's reasonable. This probably won't be the last injury this year...Peralta will get his chances. If not this year, he'll get his shot at the rotation next year. There's no reason to rush.

 

Really bummed about Narvy, he's a solid 5th starter. Doesn't sound good though. Glad the rotation goes 7 deep.

[HiAndTight]

Of course Peralta is more stretched out at this point. He's been starting in AAA and IIRC threw 98 pitches in his last at start.

 

I was referring to how far they think Estrada can go not how far Peralta can go. If you recall Estrada was being stretched out to start with when they didn't know Marcum's status.

 

Well they are "hoping," to get 70-75 pitches out of Estrada, so he's obviously not as stretched out.

[Thurston Fluff]

Well they are "hoping," to get 70-75 pitches out of Estrada, so he's obviously not as stretched out.

 

I read that after I posted. Probably why I posted then I didn't know if that was a concern. He got up to 90 pitches in spring and I wondered out loud what he could go now. After reading comments from him I learned he could go 75 or so now. I'm not sure why that was such a bad point to make at the time to deserve such derision from you twice now.

[LouisEly]

Lance Lynn doesn't seem to be hindered too much by spending last year in the bullpen. Didn't seem to hurt CJ Wilson's career either.

[Oxy]

Lance Lynn doesn't seem to be hindered too much by spending last year in the bullpen. Didn't seem to hurt CJ Wilson's career either.

 

Johan Santana pre-injury is probably the poster boy for this strategy. I want to say that he was in middle relief for at least a year and a half before dominating the AL. I think it is the best approach for most playoff caliber teams.

 

EDIT: What's the deal with Johan Santana being automatically hyperlinked to QVC?

[FVBrewerFan]

There is just no reason to rush Peralta. Yes, he has upside that Estrada doesn't have but Estrada is not a a big drop off from Narvy. Why not bring up Peralta when they are more certain he's ready? They have reason for some caution now...I think that's reasonable. This probably won't be the last injury this year...Peralta will get his chances. If not this year, he'll get his shot at the rotation next year. There's no reason to rush.

 

Really bummed about Narvy, he's a solid 5th starter. Doesn't sound good though. Glad the rotation goes 7 deep.

 

See, that's what I don't get. You ask why bring him up now, but they HAVE brought him up. Why even bother if you don't use him? Blowout tonight and he still doesn't get an inning, Is he the only other pitcher left on the 40 man? So he will only be used in an emergency until Loe is back? Only thing that would make sense.

 

I guess we have to trust the org, they know him best and must not think he's ready. I don't want to believe its just that its Esteadas turn.

[HiAndTight]

Why would you bring Peralta up to piggy-back behind Estrada? Then you may as well bring up Rivas instead. Peralta is a starter, why would you bring him up and use him out of the pen? Plus, he is supposed to be a part of the future rotation. I'm glad Estrada struck gold in a few starts last year, I just don't believe he can do it again. Sure, Peralta may not do much better as a rookie, but that's the point. Let him get that rookie year out of the way now that the door is open.

 

 

Way behind on this thread and I agreed with you 100 pct at the time. But Estrada's just proving to be one of those rare commodities that's simply better as a starter than a reliever. Tough Colorado lineup, his velocity is up from his Washington time touching 92-93(though sitting at a respectable 90-91 with the key component, command, and mixes it up well).

 

Count me as a big Estrada doubter coming into the year. Count me now as a big Estrada believer(in the sense that winning teams must have pitchers like him. Guys to step in when a guy goes down and not give the farm away.

[HiAndTight]

Well they are "hoping," to get 70-75 pitches out of Estrada, so he's obviously not as stretched out.

 

I read that after I posted. Probably why I posted then I didn't know if that was a concern. He got up to 90 pitches in spring and I wondered out loud what he could go now. After reading comments from him I learned he could go 75 or so now. I'm not sure why that was such a bad point to make at the time to deserve such derision from you twice now.

 

 

Wow. I can't imagine how sensitive you could be if that is a "derisive comment," by stating the guy who's been starting and throwing almost 100 pitches per start is more stretched out right now than a guy who threw I think 5 innings the entire season thus far.

 

I understand why people walk on egg shells if me saying a guy who's started all year long thus far and has thrown 100 IP in his last start is more stretched out than a guy who had thrown 104 pitches over 5 games thus far.

[HiAndTight]

There is just no reason to rush Peralta. Yes, he has upside that Estrada doesn't have but Estrada is not a a big drop off from Narvy. Why not bring up Peralta when they are more certain he's ready? They have reason for some caution now...I think that's reasonable. This probably won't be the last injury this year...Peralta will get his chances. If not this year, he'll get his shot at the rotation next year. There's no reason to rush.

 

Really bummed about Narvy, he's a solid 5th starter. Doesn't sound good though. Glad the rotation goes 7 deep.

 

 

 

I just don't see this as a "rushing," Peralta. I wouldn't even see this as rushing Thornburg. It's an organizational philosophy I suppose. Atlanta wouldn't hesitate to move up a guy like Thornburg(and didn't last year several times). The Giants, there are a lot of teams that move guys up more aggressively.

 

But Estrada's an exceptional option to rely on, and honestly the depth we have is really the reason that I am SO hell bent on keeping Greinke, even if it costs an exorbitant amount of money. The Brewers lose those two rocks atop their rotation, and all the sudden the expectations of the Tyler Thornburg's, Wily Peralta's, Jed Bradley's, Taylor Jungman's, Jimmy Nelson's...they all are significantly less. The loss of a Chris Narveson, which sucks because continuity is nice, but I do think it allows us to potentially upgrade that spot later in the season. Narveson is a great #5, but a Vince Worley #5 potentially would be a heckuva lot nicer. Not saying you'll get that out of Peralta, but you have the potential to get more out of a Peralta/Thornburg(who probably won't even be an option for another year, but should be a BP arm in Sept if we've contending and he's anywhere NEAR where he is now).

[Thurston Fluff]

Wow. I can't imagine how sensitive you could be if that is a "derisive comment," by stating the guy who's been starting and throwing almost 100 pitches per start is more stretched out right now than a guy who threw I think 5 innings the entire season thus far.

 

You yourself said your post was a bit over the top. Then you followed it up with another one that pretty much was an I told you so post. One that I never said wasn't true. Estrada might only have 5 innings over a couple weeks. He is still only a few weeks removed from being stretched out in spring to be a starter if necessary. I didn't know where that left him at this moment. Here is the comment that had you so bent out of shape about.

The only argument could be how stretched out he is but I don't know if Peralta is so much more stretched out at this point.

Apparently You took that to mean Peralta might not be that stretched out. What meant is Estrada may be nearly as stretched out. Partly because it is early in the season and even starters in the majors don't go 100+ very often early let alone young minor leaguers and Estrada was stretched out to 90 pitches a few weeks ago. So if Peralta is around the 90-100 pitch count level and Estrada is around that as well there is no argument to be made for Peralta. AS it turns out, well after my post was made mind you, we found out Estrada can go about 75 pitches. I still don't understand why you thought that was so stupid of me to bring up.

[Nottso]

I normally don't question managerial decisions too much, but I'm puzzled about RR's use of Peralta today in a much more stressful situation than what he would have faced yesterday.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I agree, seemed like an obvious situation yesterday to get him at least one inning, if not two. Today it was the 9th inning of a 2 run game.