Does George Kottaras have any legitimate trade value?

[adambr2]

Let me first say that I'm a big Kottaras fan and think he's one of the more underrated players on the team.

 

That said, there are a couple of things to consider. #1, as a starter, Kottaras is blocked by Lucroy. #2, it's no secret that as a backup, the Brewers seem to prefer a more defensive-focused catcher. Since Maldonado fits the bill for that, I've got to wonder if Kottaras keeps up a nice pace...say he's hitting .300 with 8-10 HR in July.

 

Would the Brewers in that case possibly see if they can shop him to a contending team with a major deficiency at catcher? I'd have to think they'd be looking for a solid bullpen arm in return. Could Kottaras bring that?

[RWeeksFan23]

Idk, but I agree about Kottaras being underrated. Ever since he's been a Brewer, I've been impressed with his at-bats. Really good batting eye, solid power. I can't imagine there's a better offensive backup catcher in baseball.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I wouldn't trade Kottaras personally. He's way too valuable as a bat off the bench for this team. If there were better options besides him on the bench I'd think differently, but that isn't the case. Yes, Maldonado can replace him, but I wouldn't do it during this season because of the lack of offense on the bench. If the bench can be somewhat bolstered at some point, then maybe, but I don't see that happening until the offseason.

[igor67]

George might not get a lot of starts, but since Roenicke seems to be more than happy to use him as a primary bat off the bench he is really filling both roles. With part managers I think it might have made more sense. I'm also hopeful that RR will give George a few more start to help keep Lucroy fresher later in the season.

[Invader3K]

He's basically our only power threat off the bench, and I don't think he's as horrible defensively as some make him out to be. I'd keep him for now.

[GormanHarvey]

I think he's quite capable behind the dish. It's just his arm that's horrible.

[monty57]

I'd like the Brewers to see if he has any aptitude at corner OF and 3B. If he could be a utility guy who could play C, 1B, 3B, OF, then he would be very valuable to a team. Even if he proves he couldn't play any corner OF or 3B, I'd use Kottaras as the backup 1B, and dump Ishikawa for someone more useful to the team.

 

To the question, I'm sure there are teams looking at what George is doing with his bat, and I'm sure they're looking for tape on him defensively. If a catcher can hit 20+ HR, many would look past some bad defense.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'm sure he has value if a team really wanted/needed him, but there would need to be a match for a need the Brewers have.

 

A lefty swinging catcher is a nice piece to have. They'd regret trading him in the short term.

[HiAndTight]

I think Kottaras is a pretty overrated player on this board. He's pretty awful behind the plate, and he has been little more than a slightly above offensive BACKUP catcher thus far in his career.

 

I'm not prepared to allow 16 AB's, as big as many of those have in fact been allow them to change my mind on him.

 

I don't particularly care for him backing up 1st as I'd rather have Hart do that as I think Aoki+Hart in RF and 1B is better than Hart+Kottaras at RF and 1B.

 

And with regard to a lack of offense Kottaras has a career .229/.313 OBP. Kotsay last year had a .270/.330 line. Kotsay obviously has a little more slugging potential, but not much.

 

Not only that, but I suspect, or at least beleive Green should be up in June giving us that offense off the bench. He's reaching the age where he doesn't need the AB's everyday in the minor leagues. He's close to being the player he's going to be. If anything, he should be playing 2nd in AAA and Farris Short or 3rd.

 

And finally, Kottaras in either the OF or at 3rd base is a terrible idea in my opinion. Ryan Braun was a SS at one of the best college teams in the nation and couldn't handle 3rd bse. Now we're going to move a catcher, a guy who's never played 3rd over there?

[adambr2]

I think Kottaras is a pretty overrated player on this board. He's pretty awful behind the plate, and he has been little more than a slightly above offensive BACKUP catcher thus far in his career.

 

I'm not prepared to allow 16 AB's, as big as many of those have in fact been allow them to change my mind on him.

 

I don't particularly care for him backing up 1st as I'd rather have Hart do that as I think Aoki+Hart in RF and 1B is better than Hart+Kottaras at RF and 1B.

 

And with regard to a lack of offense Kottaras has a career .229/.313 OBP. Kotsay last year had a .270/.330 line. Kotsay obviously has a little more slugging potential, but not much.

 

Not only that, but I suspect, or at least beleive Green should be up in June giving us that offense off the bench. He's reaching the age where he doesn't need the AB's everyday in the minor leagues. He's close to being the player he's going to be. If anything, he should be playing 2nd in AAA and Farris Short or 3rd.

 

And finally, Kottaras in either the OF or at 3rd base is a terrible idea in my opinion. Ryan Braun was a SS at one of the best college teams in the nation and couldn't handle 3rd bse. Now we're going to move a catcher, a guy who's never played 3rd over there?

 

He has a career .747 OPS, and I put a lot more stock into whats he's done lately offensively than what he did as a rookie in Boston. That's a good OPS for any catcher, starter or backup. Its certainly much better than slightly above average backup.

 

And I still think his defensive deficiencies are overblown. He's below average, but is the difference in catching D when Wolf is on the mound really even that noticeable?

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't agree that his defensive deficiencies are overblown, the guy has really been bad thus far as a big-league defender. However I will say that imo his pitch-blocking skills have looked improved this season. His arm is still a liability, but with his offense I'll take that tradeoff... assuming his improved pitch-blocking is for real & not a small-sample fluke.

[monty57]

And with regard to a lack of offense Kottaras has a career .229/.313 OBP. Kotsay last year had a .270/.330 line. Kotsay obviously has a little more slugging potential, but not much.

 

In his minor league career, Kottaras posted a .273 avg / .370 OBP / .450 SLG / .820 OPS in 2,043 ABs, and in sporatic play in the majors, he has posted a .229 avg / .313 OBP / .434 SLG / .747 OPS in only 433 ABs spread over 5 years (including 2012). With more regular playing time, it's not beyond reason to believe his numbers could be even better. It's hard to sit for four days and then try to hit on the one day you play. For point of reference, even with sporadic playing time, the numbers he's posted put him somewhere in the Matt Wieters (.266/.322/.422/.754) range offensively.

 

And finally, Kottaras in either the OF or at 3rd base is a terrible idea in my opinion. Ryan Braun was a SS at one of the best college teams in the nation and couldn't handle 3rd bse. Now we're going to move a catcher, a guy who's never played 3rd over there?

 

No, not move him there. I suggested giving him some reps to see if he had any aptitude there so he could fill in in a pinch (like last night) at the end of a game if he's used as a pinch hitter. If he shows any kind of aptitude, he could increase his value to the team through increased versatility. If he shows a lot of aptitude, then he would be a great player to have. This worked pretty well for Detroit with Brandon Inge, who showed he had a lot of aptitude for 3B and ended up moving there full time until this year's Fielder/Cabrera experiment. Just because Braun was a horrid defender doesn't mean no one else should attempt to play a position.

 

He's pretty awful behind the plate

 

Isn't that more reason to see if he could play passable defense elsewhere to improve his value?

 

I don't particularly care for him backing up 1st as I'd rather have Hart do that as I think Aoki+Hart in RF and 1B is better than Hart+Kottaras at RF and 1B.

 

That's fine. It still doesn't justify having Ishikawa on the roster as a backup 1B. If Kottaras can fill in at 1B in a pinch (even moreso if he could hold his own at any other positions as well), it makes it even more crazy that we're wasting a spot on Ishikawa when we could have a more useful player on the roster.

[HiAndTight]

In his minor league career, Kottaras posted a .273 avg / .370 OBP / .450 SLG / .820 OPS in 2,043 ABs, and in sporatic play in the majors, he has posted a .229 avg / .313 OBP / .434 SLG / .747 OPS in only 433 ABs spread over 5 years (including 2012). With more regular playing time, it's not beyond reason to believe his numbers could be even better. It's hard to sit for four days and then try to hit on the one day you play. For point of reference, even with sporadic playing time, the numbers he's posted put him somewhere in the Matt Wieters (.266/.322/.422/.754) range offensively.

 

A-Those minor league numbers include parts of 6 years in AAA.

B-Matt Weiters is 25 years old right now. So he's accumulated his big league stats while Kottaras was toiling around AAA.

C-To compare a atrocious part time defensive catcher with arguably the best defensive catcher in baseball, forgetting the age difference in how they accumulated their stats is mis-leading at best.

D-All backup catchers sit the majority of the time. That's part of being a backup catcher. Mike Rivera posted a .260/.333/.423/.756 OPS as a part time catcher for the Brewers playing in about 120 games over 4 years. I didn't see much clamoring for increased playing time for him.

Not to mention, if your goal is to see more PT out of Kottaras, you really want that to come at the expense of Lucroy? Or are we talking about him at 1st or 3rd base? I think a 3rd basemen is an awful idea and totally pointless. If Aram goes down for an extended period of time, not only do I believe that Green would hit better, but would also obviously be a LOT better defensively than a guy who's played 4 innings there in his professional career.

 

 

 

This worked pretty well for Detroit with Brandon Inge, who showed he had a lot of aptitude for 3B and ended up moving there full time until this year's Fielder/Cabrera experiment. Just because Braun was a horrid defender doesn't mean no one else should attempt to play a position.

 

Ok, the Braun point obviously went over your head leading to the asinine and snide comment at the end. My point was if a guy who's played SS his entire life and comes up then as a 3B can't defend over there what makes you think it's realistic that Kottaras, a terrible defender at his given position can? Because Brandon Inge can? A GREAT defensive catcher as well as someone with much more athletic ability. Not to mention...it didn't work out that well for the Tigers. Inge was a terrible offensive 3rd basemen the last couple years who's only value derived from his defense as was the case when he was a catcher...where much less is expected.

 

 

Isn't that more reason to see if he could play passable defense elsewhere to improve his value?

 

Not really. If he can't play the position he's played his entire life well, what makes you think(Other than Inge) that he'll be able to play 3rd base, a very difficult position to play without any prior experiance?

 

 

I don't think this would even be mentioned if he wasn't off to a hot start. Jody Gerut had hot stretches as well, as did Chad Moeller...who I believe hit .280 the year before the Brewers traded for him.

[HiAndTight]

I don't agree that his defensive deficiencies are overblown, the guy has really been bad thus far as a big-league defender. However I will say that imo his pitch-blocking skills have looked improved this season. His arm is still a liability, but with his offense I'll take that tradeoff... assuming his improved pitch-blocking is for real & not a small-sample fluke.

 

 

Yeah, I think his defense is just as awful as it's always been, and that it's his hitting explosion that's the small sample size fluke.

[adambr2]

I don't agree that his defensive deficiencies are overblown, the guy has really been bad thus far as a big-league defender. However I will say that imo his pitch-blocking skills have looked improved this season. His arm is still a liability, but with his offense I'll take that tradeoff... assuming his improved pitch-blocking is for real & not a small-sample fluke.

 

 

Yeah, I think his defense is just as awful as it's always been, and that it's his hitting explosion that's the small sample size fluke.

 

Which again, ignores his .747 career OPS in 500+ big league AB's. .747 is a very good major league hitting catcher.

 

If you want a better comparison, Kottaras career OBP, SLG, and OPS lines are nearly identical to A.J. Pierzynski, who is known himself as a poor defensive catcher and has yet made quite a long successful career for himself.

[endaround]

Kottaras has a career ISO of .206. His bat is real. A team willing to sue him as a bat of the bench/back up catcher can hardly do better. And that is basically only the Brewers because Roenicke has at least decided that having to play 1 inning with a non catcher behind the plate on the rare day your other catcher gets injured isn't the end of the world.

[DHonks]

Adam, I've always liked Kotteras' power and OBP potential. His defense definitely looks better this year, too. Having said that, he's a guy that likely won't get over-exposed with 150 at bats this year, but might with 200-250.

 

I don't get why whenever a fringe player is doing well, you and several others immediately think of dealing them. Sometimes even in a part-time role they have more value to us than they can bring in a trade. Those moves may also leave holes on our current roster. Why trade him for an A-ball fringe-prospect?

[adambr2]

Adam, I've always liked Kotteras' power and OBP potential. His defense definitely looks better this year, too. Having said that, he's a guy that likely won't get over-exposed with 150 at bats this year, but might with 200-250.

 

I don't get why whenever a fringe player is doing well, you and several others immediately think of dealing them. Sometimes even in a part-time role they have more value to us than they can bring in a trade. Those moves may also leave holes on our current roster. Why trade him for an A-ball fringe-prospect?

 

When have I suggested trading a fringe player who was doing well before?

 

I'm not really advocating for trading George, I like George a lot, and I certainly don't deny that he may have more value to us than to anyone else, that was the whole point of this thread, really, to present that question -- is Kottaras more value to us, or would someone else value him more as a potential starter? I certainly wouldn't trade him for an A-ball fringe prospect as you suggested, as I indicated in my original post.

 

I think that's a fair question, when you have a backup catcher who may turn out to be starter quality to another team, and you also have a backup quality catcher in AAA. It is just more to give us another angle to discuss in here, and I don't see anything wrong with that. Isn't stuff like this the whole point of the Transaction Rumors/Proposals forum?

[RockCoCougars]

Any team could have had Kottaras for nothing roughly a year ago. Recent hot streak aside, I highly doubt that anyone would give up much value for him.

[adambr2]

Any team could have had Kottaras for nothing roughly a year ago. Recent hot streak aside, I highly doubt that anyone would give up much value for him.

 

I thought that the type of waivers that Kottaras was put on last year was the revocable type that almost everyone clears just because of the fact that they're revocable.

 

Regardless, the same could have been said of Nelson Cruz before his breakout season -- not comparing the two, just saying values can and do fluctuate and the premise of this is more of what he would be worth at the deadline if he continued to be a nice contributor.

[Kelbysdaddy]

he's worth more to his role on the team then he would get in the trade market. i wouldnt look to move him.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think Kottaras could bring back a decent return, he's under team salary control through '15 and has a pretty nice swing from the left side. However, you might have to find a GM that thinks George has 'figured it all out' at the plate.

[Bombers]

I wouldn't trade him during the season as he is our best bench bat. I think you could get more for him next off season if he has a full season of success and not 2 weeks.

 

I would definitely look to move him next off season if you find the right deal.

[RockCoCougars]

Any team could have had Kottaras for nothing roughly a year ago. Recent hot streak aside, I highly doubt that anyone would give up much value for him.

 

I thought that the type of waivers that Kottaras was put on last year was the revocable type that almost everyone clears just because of the fact that they're revocable.

 

Regardless, the same could have been said of Nelson Cruz before his breakout season -- not comparing the two, just saying values can and do fluctuate and the premise of this is more of what he would be worth at the deadline if he continued to be a nice contributor.

 

I'm pretty sure that anyone could have had him on a waiver claim. The Cruz comparison is valid to a point, but he has had some sustained success, not just a handful of homers and big hits. If for some reason, Kottaras had to step into a full time role and put up some nice numbers for an entire season, then we may be onto something.

[DHonks]

last year he was outrighted to AAA, wasn't he? Revocable waivers are in August-Sept.