Bobby Valentine

[Oldcity]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2012/04/dustin_pedroia_15.html

 

I normally don't get caught up in Boston/NY flavor of the week stories, but this one is truly bizarre to me. Is this the quickest a manager has ever lost a team? It wasn't even through Spring Training when there were already rumblings of trouble in paradise between Bobby V and the front office. Then, about a week into the season, he publicly throws an established player under the bus.

 

Not a Roenicke fan, but at least stuff like this never happens with him. Many wanted Valentine here, and I admit I was intrigued by the possibility. He definitely misplayed this though, and it's already blowing up in his face. Someone needs to tell him to stop talking to the media, but it's already too late, really.

[dlk9s]

He seems to really want to be a celebrity manager.

[Hitman_Hart]

Speaking as someone who grew up, and still is, a massive Red Sox fan, I can tell you this: Valentine is the equivalent of Rex Ryan, and the Red Sox fan base isn't exactly enamored with him. In fact, it's his hire and the other poor personnel decisions (the smearing of Tito in the Globe, signing Nick Punto, letting Papelbon walk) in the off-season that have me considering turning my allegiance strictly toward Milwaukee. It's as if the front-office (Lucchino, Henry, etc.) is convinced the fan base will abide whatever product is put on the field because it's a historic franchise in a historic park. The fact is, they hired a blowhard that is more interested in getting his name in the media and being a media member, than he is running that team appropriately.

 

He wasn't even the first choice for that job, it was Sveum. Cherington wanted Dale, Lucchino wanted Valentine and thus, Bobby is running the show. His questioning of Youkilis is a perfect example of the concerns Red Sox fans had coming in to this season; Valentine pulled the same stunt with Josh Beckett as an ESPN announcer last season. Youk may be a curmudgeon, but I don't think that anyone could accuse him of not giving max effort all the time. Pedroia's quotes really shed some light on what's happening. The team doesn't trust Bobby, and Bobby doesn't trust the team. If the Red Sox go in to another extended slide it will be pandemonium.

 

Jayson Stark said on ESPN Radio this morning that Valentine isn't going anywhere, but this might be the closest thing to an NBA situation the MLB has ever had. The players will dictate how long Valentine stays, and at this point he's gone by July.

 

To borrow a phrase from Dr. Steve Brule, it takes a special kind of drangus to have a team turn this quickly.

[monty57]

Is this the quickest a manager has ever lost a team?

 

I think he's in a race with Ozzie in Miami. Valentine has a former league MVP and team leader questioning him, while Ozzie has people marching in the streets. Maybe sometimes it's better to not hire a manager because he has a "name."

[1992casey]

This isn't the first time that Valentine's comments about players have come into question. In the late 1990s, he had two clinically depressed players on the same team. He told the press that he thought they should be playing while receiving treatment. He ended up being ordered to cut off contact with one of the players because he was interfering with that player's recovery. That's enough for me to not want to see him managing.

 

Having said that, I'd love to see the reporter's question and the full answer before completely faulting Bobby in this particular case.

[Oldcity]

The funny thing is his candid nature made him a great analyst. I really liked him on ESPN (just about their lone bright spot among baseball analysts). Doesn't work as well as a manager.

[RockCoCougars]

This isn't the first time that Valentine's comments about players have come into question. In the late 1990s, he had two clinically depressed players on the same team. He told the press that he thought they should be playing while receiving treatment. He ended up being ordered to cut off contact with one of the players because he was interfering with that player's recovery. That's enough for me to not want to see him managing.

 

Didn't Sal Bando swoop in and pick both of those guys up from the Mets on the cheap?

[JimH5]

I recommend people listen to the WEEI podcasts for a few weeks to get a feel for how intense and chippy the Boston media can be.

 

Valentine does a weekly show with two guys named Dennis and Callahan, and that segment is becoming one of my favorite eavesdropping endeavors. Lots of second guessing & combative back and forth. It's a far cry from the way the Brewers (and moreso the Packers) are handled locally.

 

I like Valentine a lot. He loves to talk and thinks he's clever--but he's mostly right, or at least he provides a reasonable answer on why he does what he does.

 

I think he messed up on the Youkilis incident, but it should pass in a few days--though maybe not with that media & fanbase.

[1992casey]

Didn't Sal Bando swoop in and pick both of those guys up from the Mets on the cheap?

 

Yeah, they both became Brewers.

 

Pete Harnisch was acquired for Donnie Moore on August 31, 1997, and pitched 14 innings in one relief appearance and three starts. He signed with the Reds as a free agent that winter. Donnie Moore played for a season in Beloit, then dropped off the map. This isn't the Donnie Moore who shot his wife, then committed suicide. (That Donnie Moore was also a Brewer at one point.)

 

Bill Pulsipher was acquired on July 31, 1998, for Mike Kinkade, an overrated prospect who had a rather nondescript Major League career. Pulsipher was traded back to the Mets on January 21, 2000, for Luis López. Valentine was still managing the Mets at that point.

[JohnBriggs12]

Didn't Sal Bando swoop in and pick both of those guys up from the Mets on the cheap?

 

Yeah, they both became Brewers.

 

Pete Harnisch was acquired for Donnie Moore on August 31, 1997, and pitched 14 innings in one relief appearance and three starts. He signed with the Reds as a free agent that winter. Donnie Moore played for a season in Beloit, then dropped off the map. This isn't the Donnie Moore who shot his wife, then committed suicide. (That Donnie Moore was also a Brewer at one point.)

 

Bill Pulsipher was acquired on July 31, 1998, for Mike Kinkade, an overrated prospect who had a rather nondescript Major League career. Pulsipher was traded back to the Mets on January 21, 2000, for Luis López. Valentine was still managing the Mets at that point.

 

 

The Donnie Moore that was traded to the Reds for Harnisch, must have been cut by the Reds in ST of 1998 and re-signed by the Brewers because he ended up back in Beloit that year. After hitting .219, his career was over.

[brettac1]

Put me in the "I don't like Roenicke, but I would MUCH rather have him than Valentine" camp.

[Ennder]

There is a really good reason Valentine was a broadcaster and that is because he isn't a good manager anymore. That said this Boston team is a .520 or so team in that division and he has no hopes of taking it to the playoffs.

[brettac1]

Might as well give this one a bump.

 

In case people weren't following, the Sox blew a 9-0 (it was 9-1 entering the 7th) lead against the Yankees and ended up losing 15-9.

 

I wasn't watching the game start to finish. Was Bobby V planning on getting 6 outs with Aceves when he brought him in in the 8th? That was destined to fail if that was the case.

 

Plus, Tito will be in the building tomorrow night in plain sight of the fans in the Sunday Night Baseball booth. It could be fixing to get ugly if Bard doesn't have a good start in prime time. I could see ESPN producers having a good time ripping on an ex-employee with all of the storylines involved in it.

[RockCoCougars]

I will admit that I was all for the Brewers hiring Valentine... let's just say that I'm glad that they went in another direction. I really don't think that he's going to make it until the All Star break.

[Schlitz001]

I haven't really been following the Sox. How much of this losing can be pinned on bad in game managing by Bobby V? Obviously he is not connecting with the team on a personal level, but is he making bad decisions as well? He's been dealing with a lot of injuries.

[brettac1]

Some of it is on him, some on Cherington (and Theo before, and whoever in the ownership group also decides to make personnel moves i.e. Lucchino) for not giving him much of a bullpen to work with - and guys like Melancon spectacularly bombing out at the start of the year.

[Brewtacular]

I like Bobby. I was in Japan when he came back the second time and loved what he did with Chiba and, more so, what he did for baseball in Japan in addition to the genuine respect he showed for the country/language/culture. Bobby was ideal person to needle the old guard that runs NPB and will have a lasting impact there.

 

Besides, it's the Red Sox. They deserve the drama. No fan base is more annoying.

[Eye Black]

Looks like you can add Marlon Byrd to the Red Sox mix. Interesting to see how he fits in with his new team.

[pebadger]

Looks like you can add Marlon Byrd to the Red Sox mix. Interesting to see how he fits in with his new team.

 

Three for 45, or whatever Byrd is hitting right now, is simply pouring gas on the PR fire, isn't it?.

[Hitman_Hart]

The real question is can Byrd pitch?

[monty57]

I saw somewhere (MLB Network I believe) that the Red Sox have something like $67.5MM in payroll sitting on the DL right now. I can't feel bad for a team that has that much payroll on the DL and still fields Ortiz, Pedroia, Youklis, etc everyday. I can't imagine the Brewers' roster if we had $67.5MM in payroll on the DL.

[fondybrewfan]

Well the closest I could come up with is having Braun, Weeks, Hart, Ramirez, Gallardo, and Grienke all on the DL at the same time. We would be beyond awful; probably 50-60 wins over the course of the year bad.

[dlk9s]

We'd probably be Red Sox bad.