No Statue for The Ignitor?

[SenatorShriv]

I noticed in the article on brewers.com about Uecker being inducted into the National Association of Broadcasters Hall of Fame that they are planning on erecting a statue of him outside Miller Park. That got me thinking, why not a statue for Paul Molitor?

 

According to the article Bud Selig, Robin Yount and Hank Aaron are the only statues currently outside the park. Bud Selig and Robin Yount obviously stand in a class of their own for achievements in a Milwaukee uniform or in their service to Baseball as a representative from Milwaukee.

 

Is Molitor’s story really that different from Aaron’s? Both spent the majority of their time in Milwaukee on the way to Hall of Fame careers. I guess Aaron’s story is a little different in that the team left town vs Molly leaving via free agency, but I would argue that Molitor was run out of town in a vicious PR move so I’m tempted to disregard that aspect of the story. What other arguments are there against him having a statue but giving one to Aaron?

 

I obviously fall in the camp that there should be a statue of Molitor – the only Milwaukee Brewer besides Yount in the Hall of Fame, but i would be interested in reactions from others.

[Invader3K]

I agree Molitor should have a statue, and it's overdue. I started a thread stating as much in the off-season ("Paul Molitor's legacy"). Unfortunately, the Brewers and Molitor don't seem to have any working relationship these days, which is probably why it hasn't happened yet.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I'd love to see a statue of the Ignitor at Miller Park. I'd also like to see the somewhat frosty relationship a little tighter between Paulie and the organization, but that also seems a bit of a two way street.

 

I would take somewhat of an exception to not putting Hank Aaron's legacy in Milwaukee in the same league as Selig and Yount. Hank Aaron was the single greatest player to ever wear a Milwaukee baseball uniform and is in the discussion for greatest player in the history of the game. He was an MVP, that also led Milwaukee to it's only World Championship. Leaving Milwaukee wasn't his decision, and at the end of his career he came back to the city which lent some important credibility to a struggling to emerge franchise. He also worked hard along with Bud to bring Miller Park to Milwaukee. I won't even go into his work in the civil rights movement. Hank Aaron is a truly great man and a transcendent figure in Milwaukee baseball history.

 

Of course, you should take whatever I say with a grain of salt...I think Jerry Augustine deserves a statue outside Miller Park...perhaps to match the one I have built in my yard.

[JohnBriggs12]

Molitor's story is completely different than Aaron. Aaron had no control over the Brave franchise being sold to a greedy group from Chicago and being moved out of town. I suggest SenatorShriv that you read Aaron's book "I Had a Hammer", and in particular about his feelings about leaving Milwaukee.

 

I wouldn't build a Molitor statue. Sure, nobody should blame him for leaving after a low ball offer from the Brewers. But unlike Aaron, it was his choice to leave.

 

True it was a low ball offer, but he didn't have to stick it in their faces by signing with the team that the prior year the Brewers battled toe to toe with. Then several years later, when the Brewers graciously sought to bring him back, he spurned them again to sign with Twins.

 

Sorry but statues should be reserved for faces of the franchise(s) of that city. As great a player as he was, Molitor doesn't pass that test.

 

They should build a Warren Spahn and an Eddie Mathews statue before Molitor.

[Bikeage77]

I think that as soon as some business group decides they want to donate a statue, there will be a statue. I'd asssume the same holds true for Fingers.

[BradWI]

The relationship is heavily strained, and the Brewers probably have no desire to extend him an olive branch. So it's really up to Molitor. If he wants to "rejoin the family", he needs to take the initiative and then he'll be extended the same "benefits" as Yount - statue, spring training visits, other alumni events, etc...

[longball04]

John -

 

I have been a Brewers fan since the 70's and I guess I recall a completely different scenario (perhaps it is selective rememberance on my part) of the way Molitor left town. The Brewers REALLY low-balled him and word on the street is that they wanted to cut ties with him, which I will never understand why. In my recollection he didn't spur the Brewers to sign with the Blue Jays. They actually offered him market value for a contract. Had the Brewers wanted him there, they would have given him a better offer to stay. As for spurring the Brewers again later on by signing with the Twins, how can you fault Paul for wanting to play in the State he grew up in? He retired a Brewer and will always be rememered as a Brewer, not a Blue Jay and not a Twin. Robin, Paul and Jim were the faces of the franchise back then, and he, just like Robin, Hank and Bob, deserves a statue at Miller Park as well. It is long overdue. The guy was a phenomenol baseball player.

 

Just my two cents. Of course, #4 will always be the greatest Brewer to play, in my mind. I think in those days, you were either a Yount guy or a Molitor guy. I sided with #4 (still loved Yount though).

[Hitman_Hart]

If I'm not mistaken, doesn't Molitor have an office gig with the Twins at present?

[Invader3K]

If I'm not mistaken, doesn't Molitor have an office gig with the Twins at present?

 

I think so. I know for a while he was a roving hitting instructor. Not sure if he's still doing that.

 

I'll also add, and I know this has been discussed to death, but I don't think you can blame Molitor one bit for going to Toronto. The Brewers dragged their feet in negotiating with him, and then made a low ball offer (may have been the other way around, doesn't matter). Molitor's agent started shopping around a bit, and the Blue Jays offered him a nice contract. Really can't blame the man for leaving when Sal Bando basically treated him like dirt that off-season.

 

I think anyone has to respect the fact that Molitor spent 15 seasons in Milwaukee, and chose to go into the Hall of Fame as a Brewer. There's no good reason he shouldn't have a statue someday.

[Warning Track Power]

To me this is the same situation as what occurred with Brett Favre and the Packers in terms of a terrible parting of ways. However, this does not cloud the fact that Molitor was the best Brewer to ever wear the uniform. I love Yount. Love him. But Molitor was the better player. Had Molitor stayed healthy, he would've been a legitimate threat to 4,000 hits. I understand the Brewers retired #4 but Molitor is not just an icon to the Brewers.

 

Digging a little deeper into Molitor and you realize just how good he was. Molitor played in 2,683 games in 21 seasons. An average of 128 games per season. 128 out of 162, save the 1981 strike season. Over 20 seasons (excluding 1981), he missed on average 34 games per season or 680 games over his career or the equivalent of 4 seasons. Now extrapolate Molitor's 162 game average of 200 hits and give him 3 seasons of 200 hits instead of 4 seasons (simply because expecting any player to be Cal Ripken is not fair) and Molitor has 600 more hits for his career. Despite all his injuries, Molitor STILL finished with 3,319 hits. Add in these additional 600 hits and Molitor is knocking on 4,000 with 3,919. #3 all-time hits leader Hank Aaron had 3,771, 452 hits more than Molitor. Molitor was literally 2+ healthy seasons away from having the 3rd most hits in MLB history. MLB HISTORY! Yes, this is all what if but still should be considered in my opinion when judging Molitor and how good he actually was.

 

As for the Hank Aaron statue and the idea of Eddie Mathews and/or Warren Spahn...I mean yeah I get it. They were HOF players in the City of Milwaukee. Unfortunately, they also played for an organization that resides in Atlanta now. Not their fault by any stretch of the imagination but if there is an additional statue to be erected the first on the list should be the other BREWER HOF before we start honoring Braves.

[Bikeage77]

They should build a Warren Spahn and an Eddie Mathews statue before Molitor.

 

Maybe, but they can't build either of them near Miller Park for obvious reasons. Put them up downtown. I'd love to see a statue of Spahn with his huge leg kick preserved somewhere. The best spot could be Old World 3rd near the rest of the Wisconsin walk of fame outside the Cell or something.

[Invader3K]

I'm fine with Spahn and Matthews getting statues outside Miller Park someday (maybe nearer the actual County Stadium site would be good), but Molitor should be the next in line after Uecker this year.

[bjkrautk]

If you want to make the differentiation between Aaron and Molitor, I think this thread spells it out pretty well.

- No one blames either player for leaving the city when they did.

- At the end of their careers, when given the opportunity, Aaron returned to Milwaukee. Molitor went to the Twins.

 

I grew up during the Molitor-Yount era, and was always a Molitor first guy (too young to really know about the off-the-field stuff I've heard about since). I didn't hold his time with the Blue Jays against him, cheered him on when they won the WS, and was glad to hear he was retiring as a Brewer. Always tried to get to County when the Twins were coming through after that; wish I could have been cheering for him in the home uniform, though (those were some lean years, if memory serves).

[RockCoCougars]

I think that the Brewers should perhaps relax the requirements on the Walk of Fame before over-saturating the stadium area with statues. If you build too many statues, it diminishes the value of the others.

 

As far as Molitor goes, the bottom line is that he didn't finish his career in Milwaukee. It doesn't really matter who's fault that was, but he's probably not going to get a statue based on that fact alone. He's just not the iconic figure in Wisconsin sports that Yount and Aaron are.

[brewmann04]

I really think the Brewers need to have statue of Molly at Miller Park. He was a great Player for the Brewers and my all time favorite Brewer. But i would hope Mark A would try to fix the relationship as well Paul on his part

[RockCoCougars]

To me, Molitor is kind of like that relative who moved 'out East' several years ago that you don't hear from very much outside of a Christmas card and maybe a trip home every few years. As far as the relationship between he and the Brewers, I believe that Attanasio has reached out to him a few times and he has rebuffed. I don't blame him for this, and I don't know that there is an 'icy' relationship.... I'm not sure that I'd feel any kinship with an organization after I stopped working there 20 years ago either. His life circumstances have changed, and he hasn't really shown the desire to stay for very long with his previous MLB coaching jobs, so he probably doesn't want a full-time gig in baseball at this point. It'd be nice to see him back in a Brewer uniform during Spring Training, but as far as I know he is still on the Twins' payroll.

 

As far as the statue goes, the fact that Molitor hasn't been as 'involved' with the franchise as Yount and Aaron won't help. Personally, I think he falls a bit short. In my view, ironically enough, he was always the 'Robin' to Yount's Batman during the glory days of the early 80's (yes I know, opposite of the poster). When he was on the field, he was arguably the better player, but Yount always seemed more popular- except among the ladies, Molly was kind of the J.J. Hardy of his era in that respect.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I agree that they need to scale back the statues and just start letting more people into the Walk of Fame. The next statue will probably be Ryan Braun. Molitor probably deserves one, but don't see it happening.

[BCZF]

As for Spahn, etc..

 

Why not a statue near the Braves (memorial?) out at Helfaer Field?

 

And perhaps a Bill Bartholomay statue made entirely out of Coke cans for the pigeons.

[MNBrew]

What a couple guys said above:

- I loved Robin, but there's no doubt Molitor was the better player than Yount. (That said, they were both among the very best non-bigtime-power hitters and the smartest & classiest ballplayers of the past 50 years, so any debate is still a bit of a splitting hairs thing. Even baseball-reference.com ranks them the most similar players to each other.)

- After comparable years in '92, the Brewers offered Robin a raise or at least something not far from his $3.2M salary and Molitor a $1M or so deal, I believe, after his $3.4M salary.... the biggest kicker was this (which I can't believe that no one has said in this discussion):

- Sal Bando's infamous words, "only a DH." 'Nuff said. Brilliant, Sal, and Molitor's in the HOF.

 

I live in the Twin Cities. Been here since '91 (and still live & die daily with the Brewers -- staring anxiously at Gameday when Kottaras hit the double to win tonight). Molitor has been employed by the Twins pretty much since he retired as a player save for his brief stint as the Mariners' hitting coach under Bob Melvin. He spent a year as a Twins coach and then realized he needed to stay home more to be around more with his young daughter -- something he didn't really have the same choice to do when daughter Blair was young & he was playing for the Brewers. Heck, Gardy's a darn good manager and he's not going anywhere, but many have said Molitor would be the best manager the Twins could have if he were only interested in the job.

 

I honestly don't believe there's anything "icy" about his relationship with the Brewers, although I believe Molitor has "moved on" in a generally normal-ish & neutrally motivated way. The guy grew up here in MN & went to college here. Largely for family reasons, he doesn't work anything but a pretty family-conducive job for his current employer in the town where he grew up & once again lives. Leave MN -- leave home -- for a job in MIL -- ANY job in MLB -- to take a job elsewhere when he could have pretty much any job with the Twins he could want? It's just not happening and, I believe, likely never will. I'd also highly doubt he'll ever take a dugout job again.

 

Just about everyone baseball-wise with the Brewers to whom Molitor felt loyalty is no longer associated with the team except for Bob Uecker -- the radio guy (one of the 5 best ever, but still not a player, coach, or front office guy). You can't blame Molitor for feeling entrenched in his role with the team -- in his hometown, no less -- he's been with in one way or another for almost the entirety of the past 17+ years.

 

All that said, I'd sure hope if/when another statue happens, it's Paul Molitor. He deserves it without question. Whether it'll ever happen is perhaps -- and perhaps unfortunately -- a whole different question.

[Team Canada]

I think anyone has to respect the fact that Molitor spent 15 seasons in Milwaukee, and chose to go into the Hall of Fame as a Brewer. There's no good reason he shouldn't have a statue someday.

 

Not that it's that important to this discussion, but the player doesn't choose the team, the HOF does.

[Invader3K]

I think anyone has to respect the fact that Molitor spent 15 seasons in Milwaukee, and chose to go into the Hall of Fame as a Brewer. There's no good reason he shouldn't have a statue someday.

 

Not that it's that important to this discussion, but the player doesn't choose the team, the HOF does.

 

I know that's the case now, but not sure if it was when Molitor was inducted. I remember a big deal being made when Molitor returned to County Stadium at one point and announced he'd be going in as a Brewer. I know later when Wade Boggs was negotiating with the Rays, it was rumored they were going to work a deal where he'd go into the Hall as a Ray, and then the Hall announced they would be picking the team at that point.

 

Anyway, I don't know why people keep talking about Molitor's current job. We're just talking about the man getting a statue, not getting a Brewers contract or taking over Roenicke's job or whatever. I'm sure Paul and the Brewers could set aside any animosity (which I don't think is really there anymore) long enough for him to come down for a statue unveiling.

[berniebrewer4life]

 

I know that's the case now, but not sure if it was when Molitor was inducted.

 

 

Molitor was inducted in 2004, the rule was put into place in 2001.

[RockCoCougars]

I believe the HOF deciding on the team came into play after Dave Winfield made a 'consultant' agreement with the Padres in which he received a cushy front office type job and he reciprocated by choosing the Padres for his hat.

[xisxisxis]

The relationship is heavily strained, and the Brewers probably have no desire to extend him an olive branch. So it's really up to Molitor. If he wants to "rejoin the family", he needs to take the initiative and then he'll be extended the same "benefits" as Yount - statue, spring training visits, other alumni events, etc...

 

Yep. I believe it's in Molitor's court and I don't think he cares. I think he still holds a grudge and the grudge isn't just a Bando issue he's extended it to Milwaukee. Given his off the field issues I certainly don't care if he gets one or not.

 

And I agree that we should be looking at former Braves players like Spahn and Matthews. You know players that actually WON a world series for a milwaukee team.....

[1992casey]

Molitor was inducted in 2004, the rule was put into place in 2001.

 

Molitor made the statement when his number was retired. That happened several years before the rule was put in place.

 

I don't see where anyone should expect Paul to work for the Brewers. But it'd be nice if he showed a presence once in a while. Aaron has been quite active in Milwaukee, even though he's been an employee of the Braves throughout his post-playing career.

 

I'm not a huge fan of statues. But putting that aside, I agree with the statement above that the Brewers shouldn't run the risk of being over-statued.

 

As far as Molitor, he's as good a player as anyone, and he certainly deserves the honor of having his number retired. But when it comes to the total package, his contributions to Milwaukee and its teams don't match those of Aaron, Yount, Selig, and Uecker. Some of that isn't his fault, but "fault" doesn't really matter.