Roster construction problems with this team

[Ennder]

I think the bullpen will somewhat fix itself when the starters stop being so terrible. We certainly don't have the worst pitching in the NL and right now we have given up the most runs.

[monty57]

To hand the 7th to Veras was nothing more than wishful thining or desperation. I realize Krod accepting arby has a lot to do with this, but I like to believe a good GM could find a really good 7th inning guy on the cheap.

 

I guess my problem is with the seeming necessity to have a "7th inning guy." I didn't get upset like the stat guys did about designating your best reliever as the closer, but now we not only have a designated closer, we now have a designated "8th inning guy," a designated "7th inning guy," a designated "long guy" who only pitches when the team is up or down a certain amount and the starter has to be pulled before a certain inning, etc. Using the best pitcher for the situation has seemingly been thrown out the window.

 

We have two guys on the roster who should never face lefties in Dillard and Loe, but since they're designated to certain roles, they get put in situations where they won't succeed. We've pegged Veras as the "7th inning guy," so he'll get overused at times and underused at times, just like the closer and "8th inning guy." If the team is up 1-3 runs in the 7th inning, and three righties are coming up, why not use Loe instead of Veras, especially if Veras has pitched a lot in the recent past?

 

During Spring Training I would have looked at you like you were crazy for suggesting that Peralta should be used as a reliever. But now I'm starting to consider this a viable option. Guy throws heat and has great stuff. Why not let him get out there and just let it fly for a month or two? If it doesn't work we look for scrap heap players and trades to get a legit middle inning reliever. I don't see how that could set back his progress too far.

 

Because Peralta needs to build up innings so that he can be a starter for the Brewers next year, when there is a big possibility that we will only have one of our current starters returning. I would be fine with him either starting now for the Brewers (returning Estrada to the 'pen), with him coming up in a month or so to start when we will retain some extra service time, or with him starting most of the season in Nashville and moving to the Brewers 'pen late in the season when he is reaching his innings limit. However, I would not be happy if they decided to move him to the 'pen now, meaning he will not have enough innings built up to be a starter all year for the Brewers next year.

 

As far as Rivas, it appears that he is in the 'pen in Nashville, with nine games and no starts, sporting a 1.38 ERA in 13 IP. He is probably a viable option to join the Brewers' pen at some point. Dillard and McClendon are very replaceable, and I think the Brewers realize this, so they won't hesitate to jettison them if they underperform for long.

 

Juan Perez is another guy to keep an eye on. He's a lefty who had a good spring for the Brewers before being sidelined with an injury (collapsed lung IIRC). I know it's only four games, but he's got a 1.80 ERA with 6K and 0BB in 5 IP. I could see him replacing Dillard, so we could have two lefties rather than two guys who should never face lefties in Dillard and Loe.

 

I think the bullpen will somewhat fix itself when the starters stop being so terrible.

 

That's the most important factor for the pen. If we can stop having to use guys like Dillard and McClendon, and stop putting so many innings on the bullpen, it will improve even if no moves are made.

[WV Brew]

Let me point out: McGehee .279/.340/.372/.713

Against LH: .333/.444/.467/.911

 

McGehee/Green > Ramirez ???? for far less money.

 

Obviously small sample alert but McGehee was probably due for a bounce back, particularly if platooned.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yeah the pen has looked pretty bad lately bad but Veras, K-Rod and Axford are all pretty decent relievers. Not really a fan of Dillard but bringing up Peralta to start and moving Estrada back to the pen would give us 4 decent relievers with Parra as a LOOGY and Loe used so he doesn't face really good left handed bats and we would have a really good pen.

Or, if nothing else, we would have a significantly better 'pen. Going with Peralta as the replacement SP is just a no-brainer imo, largely because of the way it aids the BP depth.

[brwrsfan]

It makes virtually no sense for Estrada to start. That weakens the pen quite a bit and moves other guys into roles they shouldn't be. The pen could have been left alone and Peralta should be starting. He's a starter, our top prospect and he's been kept in AAA so Estrada can start games? It makes no sense.

[RockCoCougars]

If Estrada keeps getting the job done in the rotation, he should be starting. I think that based on his performance as a starter last year, he's earned a shot. I don't see how moving him to the rotation really hurts the bullpen because barring extra innings he's not getting in the game after the 6th or maybe the 7th inning if the Brewers have a lead. The bottom line is that the Brewers have over 10 million tied up in three late inning set up men. These guys and Axford need to get the job done.

 

At any rate, it was no stretch to assume that the bullpen would regress this year. Last season, outside of a bad month from Loe, everyone out there pitched out of their minds.

[logan82]

Let me point out: McGehee .279/.340/.372/.713

Against LH: .333/.444/.467/.911

 

McGehee/Green > Ramirez ???? for far less money.

 

Obviously small sample alert but McGehee was probably due for a bounce back, particularly if platooned.

McGehee wasn't necessarily due for a bounce back. He only had a little over one and a half good years in the majors. His AAA stats while not poor but definitely did not point to him hitting as well as he did. They pointed more towards a low to mid .700 OPS guy not a .800+ OPS guy. He has a MLB career line of .328/.421/.749 line against LHP. I would rather have Hairston/Green+Veras then either McGehee/Green or Ramirez+Veras.

[FVBrewerFan]

I like to believe a good GM could find a really good 7th inning guy on the cheap.

 

If he's a really good 7th inning guy, then he's likely a really good relief pitcher. A really good relief pitcher probably doesn't come cheap, or at least cheap enough for the Brewers.

 

Axford came cheap, and he's the closer. Extreme example, I know. But it proves there are guys out there with good enough stuff and control to be a very effective pitcher for an inning. Could be from our own system, other teams MLB club or minors, indy league...whatever.

 

I'm also not advocating having Saito and Hawkins back, that wasn't my point. Usually wise to count your blessings that you got a good season out of an aging reliever, and move on. The problem is with the plan for replacing them.

 

They were able to Veras for McGehee, which is fine. What isn't fine is inserting him as the proverbial "7th inning guy." He is just ok, not even above avg reliever if you look at his numbers. No problem having him in the pen, they just over-valued his role. And Parra is wishful thinking more than anything else. "He has so much talent we have to give him another chance."

 

But I'm fine with guys like Veras, Loe, and Parra in the pen. But those need to be your 5-7 relievers, not 3-5. THAT'S where I have a problem with the construction of the bullpen.

[GormanHarvey]

Totally agree on Juan Perez, monty. I think he definitely has a shot to help out. They really liked what they saw from in ST before the collapsed lung. I'm also about at the end of my rope with Parra. When he came in on Tuesday night and threw gas on the fire, he looked like he couldn't have cared less.

[3and2Fastball]

Casey McGehee's career OBP vs LHP is .328 ... that is just plain not good and not good enough to warrant a platoon spot. Plus Veras has value in the bullpen. That was a good trade for the Brewers

[TooLiveBrew]

I'd really like to see Ishikawa & Izturis DFA'd, and replace them with Conrad & Green. I realize this leaves Gonzalez as the only SS, but he doesn't appear to need many nights off. If he were to get hurt, you have Maysonet at AAA & Bianchi at AA.

 

Also, I cursed a lot at Kotsay tonight.

[MNBrew]

I'd gladly have kept Kotsay if we'd've known the best backup 1B option would've been Ishikawa. Kotsay at the plate wasn't the problem.

 

Of course, for much of this month, K-Rod on the mound has been a big problem.

[monty57]

It makes virtually no sense for Estrada to start. That weakens the pen quite a bit and moves other guys into roles they shouldn't be. The pen could have been left alone and Peralta should be starting. He's a starter, our top prospect and he's been kept in AAA so Estrada can start games? It makes no sense.

 

Unfortunately, with the Narveson injury Estrada may be counted on to be a starter for us next year, at least long enough to give Jungman and Bradley some time in AA/AAA. If he shows some competence as a starter this year, we may be comfortable with him and Peralta as our #4/5 guys next year. If he "gets exposed" and pitches terribly when he gets regular starts, then we'll know we need to find another option this offseason.

 

I know a lot of people are in "go for it all" mode and may not like this, but Estrada can kind of get a trial by fire this season. If he succeeds it's good for the Brewers now and in the future. If not, then we bring up Peralta which is what many want to happen anyway.

 

Finally, it is still likely that we will have more injuries in the rotation throughout the year. Hopefully not another season/career ending injury, but someone else will probably end up on the DL. That's when I expect Peralta to get his first start(s). Then when that pitcher comes off the DL Melvin will need to decide whether to keep Estrada or Peralta in the rotation.

[monty57]

I'd really like to see Ishikawa & Izturis DFA'd, and replace them with Conrad & Green. I realize this leaves Gonzalez as the only SS, but he doesn't appear to need many nights off. If he were to get hurt, you have Maysonet at AAA & Bianchi at AA.

 

Also, I cursed a lot at Kotsay tonight.

 

It would scare me to not have a backup SS. I don't like Izturis, but I think we need a second guy on the team who can play SS. Remember that Roenicke's backup plan earlier this year was to put Ramirez at SS. If Gonzalez got injured in the first inning, I don't like the thought of watching Aramis Ramirez playing a whole game at SS.

 

As far as Ishikawa, we now have to see what happens with the Gamel knee injury. If he can't play for a few days, or is DL'd, then Ishikawa will be our starter. If it does require a DL stint, it will be interesting to see if Conrad is called up and how he is used. I'd probably platoon 1B with Conrad and Ishikawa and then send Ishikawa back down when Gamel returned. However, I doubt that's what would happen. More likely Ishikawa would get every start and Conrad would only get a few PH appearances and then get sent back down. Hopefully, Gamel's fine and we don't have to worry about it.

[TooLiveBrew]

If Gonzalez got injured in the first inning, I don't like the thought of watching Aramis Ramirez playing a whole game at SS.

 

I like that (worst-case scenario) option for one game over having Izturis get any more PAs.

[FVBrewerFan]

Izturis would have value if Yuni was still the starting SS. Then at least he could be used as a defensive replacement late in games. But that's not the case. He adds nothing as a starter at 2B,SS, or 3B. And there's no reason to use him as a defensive replacement at any of those positions. He is the LAST option to use as PH.

 

So really, his only value is being able to play SS if Gonzalez goes down. Now that's a reason to be on the roster, but not a very good one. I'll take a bat on the bench and take my chances. If Gonzalez goes down, it MAY hurt them for one game. But Izturis adds nothing EVERY game.

[RobertR]

Izturis would have value if Yuni was still the starting SS. Then at least he could be used as a defensive replacement late in games. But that's not the case. He adds nothing as a starter at 2B,SS, or 3B. And there's no reason to use him as a defensive replacement at any of those positions. He is the LAST option to use as PH.

 

So really, his only value is being able to play SS if Gonzalez goes down. Now that's a reason to be on the roster, but not a very good one. I'll take a bat on the bench and take my chances. If Gonzalez goes down, it MAY hurt them for one game. But Izturis adds nothing EVERY game.

 

I think the worst case is what happens if Gonzalez has a nagging injury that may require a few games off, but not necessitate a trip to the DL. Coupled with normal days off and I think there's a reasonable case to be made that there's a case for a backup SS on the roster.

 

And yeah, Izturis and Ishikawa are bad players. I happen to think that Conrad is a bad player as well with a decent split against LHP posted in such few ABs to not mean all that much (and with the realization that he'd face his share of RHP anyways). Heck, for all I know Conrad might have come in with a bad attitude, conditioning, etc. and setting a consistent standard might be good in the big picture. I think Roenicke has actually used Ishikawa and Izturis appropriately, i.e. infrequently, and that the problem is more in the lack of good options off the bench than anything.

 

Still I don't think the last two spots bench has had more than a marginal impact to this point. Not compared to the struggles of Weeks, Ramirez, Morgan, Gallardo, Wolf, KRod, and Veras. I certainly think the Brewers can address the bench while waiting for their underperforming key players to come around, but ultimately they're only going to add another good glove, no hit middle infielder backup along with calling up Green at some point.

 

Robert

[FVBrewerFan]

With Gamel down, and the way this team is playing, I think it's time to make the following moves.

 

Gamel DL - Bring up Gindl (Hart moves to 1B) or Bring up Green (Either Ramirez or Green plays 1B)

 

Ishikawa DFA- Bring up Conrad

 

Trade Aoki or Morgan for a solid bullpen arm

 

Bring up either Peralta or Thornburg for th rotation. Not necessarily immediately, but soon. Whichever one they feel is most prepared physically and mentally.

[Ennder]

I'm just baffled that the team hasn't been able to develop any good RP in recent years. I look around the league and every team seems to have a couple young upside RP to work out in their bullpen and we just have nothing. We finally seem to be developing some starters but it is hard to fail at RP for this long of a stretch.

[TooLiveBrew]

Um... Axford probably more than makes up for that on his own.

[Ennder]

Um... Axford probably more than makes up for that on his own.

 

A RP that we didn't develop though, we kind of lucked into Axford. It is just hard to believe that a team can be this bad at it.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Um... Axford probably more than makes up for that on his own.

 

A RP that we didn't develop though, we kind of lucked into Axford. It is just hard to believe that a team can be this bad at it.

 

How did we not develop Axford? We basically took him from Step 1 as he tried to revive his career. He came up all the way from High A Brevard County. We clearly developed him through the minors. We obviously didn't draft him and start with him from the beginning, but we definitely developed him all the way from the bottom to the top. He was basically back to square 1 when we signed him.

[Ennder]

We got Axford 3 years after he was drafted, hard to say we developed him. That is like saying the Rangers developed Nelson Cruz. Ok to rephrase it how can a team be so bad at drafting and then developing RP arms, it is something most teams do on a consistent basis yet we have somehow completely failed at it. I'm not just talking elite guys either, we just have been terrible at it all around.

[PrinceEatMeat]

We got Axford 3 years after he was drafted, hard to say we developed him. That is like saying the Rangers developed Nelson Cruz. Ok to rephrase it how can a team be so bad at drafting and then developing RP arms, it is something most teams do on a consistent basis yet we have somehow completely failed at it. I'm not just talking elite guys either, we just have been terrible at it all around.

 

I definitely agree with you on that. Hard to find many successful relief pitchers that we've developed in recent memory. Our most successful guys have been random waiver claims like Derrick Turnbow and Dan Kolb. Other than that we seem to get by with veterans. Not something that we can keep doing. It's becoming very evident this season. That's for sure. The closest guy to making an impact is Brandon Kintzler, and we didn't draft him either. Santo Manzanillo is another guy who could pan out for us. But still, not enough guys have been successfully developed. We haven't done well with SP either. Yes, we have a bunch of promising guys right now, but it's no guarantee they'll pan out either. Gallardo is the only successful one right now.

[FVBrewerFan]

Not sure why you're limiting your argument to RP. The Brewers haven't developed any SP either. Gallardo is the only one in what, 10 years? Sure there's some promising arms in the minors, but I've seen that movie before.