Roster construction problems with this team

[PrinceEatMeat]

I still don't understand how people can be so down on Ramirez and Gonzalez 10 games into the season. I realize a lot of people were against at least the Ramirez signing, but it's way to early to judge. For all we know he could turn it around like he always has and put up numbers like he did last year. If that happens, then it wasn't a bad move in my opinion. Gonzalez will be fine, and it's easy to see he'll be leaps and bounds over Yuni in the field. That's all that really matters at that position. I just don't understand all the negativity this early in the season. Gotta give it more time before ripping on, and wanting to tear down half the roster.

[GormanHarvey]

The problem is Ramirez was a dumb signing and an overreaction to losing Fielder. No way Ramirez was going to replace Fielder. He might not be any better than a McGehee/Green platoon at 3B.

 

Alex Gonzalez (3 errors in 8 games) isn't much of an answer at SS either. It's not like they needed another free swinging HR or nothing bat in the lineup.

 

The left side of the infield is decrepit and costly. That's not a good combo. It might have worked if either of those two provided great clubhouse leadership (another woefully lacking ingredient with Prince gone), but that's not the case either.

 

It is still early but the signs aren't good. They are 1-5 against quality teams.

 

Hopefully at some point Dan Meadows can solve the lefty reliever issue.

 

I'd argue that Gonzalez should only have 1 error really. He was charged with one when he made a fabulous diving play and made a good throw only to have Gamel no where near the bag. Another was the result of a horrible hop at the last second that hit him in the chest. Not sure what games you have been watching, but he looks far from decrepit to me. I've watched a ton of baseball early this season, and he's getting to as many balls as any other SS I've seen.

 

As far as your clubhouse leadership comment, I don't know anymore of what goes on in the Brewers clubhouse than probably most if not all of the other members here, but from what I have read, Prince's presence in the clubhouse really hasn't been missed. Corey Hart said Counsell was their real leader in the clubhouse, and to a lesser degree, Weeks and Braun (EDIT).

[reillymcshane]

Hairston would have been great. I'd rather have him splitting time with Green at third and backing up everywhere else than Ramirez.

 

I still wish this is what we would have done. A-Ram is a lot of money for an aging player.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Your everyday leadoff hitter and cleanup hitter are giving you next to nothing offensively right now - Weeks and Ramirez need to get it going for this team to get consistent offensively.

 

The pitching staff has an ERA north of 5.5, 2 bad starts for Wolf, 1 bad start for both Greinke and Gallardo are big reasons for that.

 

It's early, and for that matter the bench hasn't been the problem for this team's inconsistencies so far. If Ramirez is still scuffling by the all star break (likely because he's always been a slow starter), then I think questioning his signing and how the bench is composed becomes a very fair criticism.

[Warning Track Power]

I think the signing will still prove to be fruitful for at least the first half of the contract but I would have been ok with a platoon of Hairston and Taylor Green. My only issue with the idea of not having signed Ramirez is the lack of protection in the lineup for Ryan Braun and lineup construction. Corey Hart is perfect in the #5 spot. I think Rickie could have been moved to #4, especially given his alarming number of strikeouts right now.

 

Trying to build a lineup minus Ramirez is tricky but I think we could have survived against a RHP with Morgan, Gamel, Braun, Weeks, Hart, Gonzalez, Green, Lucroy order. Trickier is against a LHP where you would really have to juggle guys around with Weeks, Hairston, Braun, Hart, Gamel, Lucroy, Gonzalez, Gomez.

 

Not saying this is impossible but given RRR's propensity to not juggle the lineup too much I think he preferred the idea of a non-platoon at 3B. Pure speculation.

[thebruce44]

The ARam signing is costing this team $6 mil in maneuverability this year. Morgan/Parra/Verras comes in at $5.5 and it seems like there had to have been better options for all of them. (Just to be clear I like Morgan, just think some combination of Aoki/Schaffer/Gomez could have been an option).

[RockCoCougars]

I hope for Ramirez' and the Brewers' sake that he/they get things going pretty soon, otherwise, he is going to really bear the brunt from the fans at Miller Park. As long as the team is winning, he will get a pass, but if the losing streak continues and he's not hitting his weight, look out.

 

I can't see either Izturis or Isakawa being long for this squad either. I don't know why this team needs to handicap themselves by bringing a couple of completely worthless players North each spring. During Izturis AB's (and Aoki), the left fielder was literally 20 feet behind the shortstop. Generally, you only see this positioning during Little League games when the bench is cleared.

 

The bullpen has definitely been exposed as being not as capable as last season, so the starters had better start turning in more quality starts.

 

None of these things are reason to push the panic alarm yet, but most of them could have been easily predicted.

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

I hope for Ramirez' and the Brewers' sake that he/they get things going pretty soon, otherwise, he is going to really bear the brunt from the fans at Miller Park. As long as the team is winning, he will get a pass, but if the losing streak continues and he's not hitting his weight, look out.

 

He better hope the fans are patient.... he's got a long way to go to .300.

[HiAndTight]

I really don't think they had the extra millions.

 

They added 15 extra millions for Ramirez and K-Rod.

 

 

They made 19.2 million dollars last year, raised ticket prices, and have been puffing out their chests talking about all the record markers we are passing every time one comes along. The first day of season ticket sales, the first day of individual sales, partial season ticket packages.

 

 

Anyway though, you're complaining, with all due repsct because of a couple of imperfections on the roster. Aoki is such good vs left handers that he can face RH'ers off the bench.

 

We wanted a loogy, but Brddock wouldn't play along. We have a couple of potential options in the minors, but a loogy isn't a whole lot to complain about.

 

As for Conrad V Ishikawa, I prefer Ishikawa wasn't even on the team due to the risk of him getting even 1 or 2 games a week at 1st base as I truly believe Gamel is a 4_ WAR a year player on average from next year through the following 4-5 years. Not an all star, but a guy who'll top out at .300/.375/.500 with 25-33 or so HR's.

 

But that's not the point. The complaints about this roster are, with all due respect, about as nit picky as one can get. You're talking about a GM who;

Brought back all 5 starting pitchers from last year.

-Kept in tact the dynamic duo at the back of our bullpen with two elite relievers.

-Traded a completely inept 3rd baemen last year at 3rd base for a very competent live armed 7th inning man to preceed those two back end guys.

-Signed the top offensive player on the market at one of our two positions of need, a guy mind you coming off a .300/30/90-ish type season last year to fill one of those positions. The other was filled by the player we've ALL been clamoring for.

-Replaced one one of the worst defensive Shortstops in baseball for a vastly superior defender at Short, and a guy with more power(I believe it was fan graphs that said had Gonzalez hit the ball exactly as he had last year, but played in Miller Park, he'd have had 27 HR's. Not a career high by the way.

-When Braun was possibly lost went out and signed the best Japenese player and an ideal fit to this team in Aoki. Incidentally, a move that looked particularly intelligent when Hart had knee surgery 4 weeks before OD.

 

And upped the payroll to 102+ million dollar WHILE recently stating that we still have payroll flexibility.

 

What could he have done else?

I suppose he could have signed Reyes to play SS for significantly more money.

He could have signed Jamey Carroll to back up the IF. Would have cost more.

Could have signed Harriston, a significantly more expensive signing for a player who did not want to stay in Milwaukee.

 

 

Personally, I'd have given Green 3rd base, signed Reyes, looked to have traded Hart this upcoming off-season and then worked out a long term contract to Greinke, but Reyes wasn't realistic, and Hart's been pretty dang good now the last couple years. But for the team we had going into the off-season, he did a pretty damn good job IMO of keeping our guys here and bringing new players in.

 

And Aram doesn't look like much, but I would certainly hope that he's going to fulfill his reputation as a slower starter. I believe without looking, but I don't think he started real strong last year either, and ended up having one of the best years of all 3rd basemen in the NL, if not the best offensively.

[HiAndTight]

Hairston would have been great. I'd rather have him splitting time with Green at third and backing up everywhere else than Ramirez.

 

I still wish this is what we would have done. A-Ram is a lot of money for an aging player.

 

 

There is no Benjamin Button out there, everyone is aging. Aram is just 33 years old, and had a big year offensively last year. He would have been our 2nd best offensive player last year.

 

Harriston was offered a deal that IIRC was equal to or even surpassed the Dodgers deal. I believe he wanted to play on the West Coast.

 

And as for complaints about Veras who are these pitchers people believe are as talented as he is? Complaints about him are well unfounded at this point in time. You're using how many games? Axford has a 7.50 ERA. Veras has struck out per inning the last two years and put up 80 appearances last year. And we got him for Casey McGehee, a useless player last year. Meanwhile Ramirez had a 3.6 WAR, despite posting a .4 WAR the year before. This was mostly due to him working his way back from an injured shoulder that came halfway through a very productive 2009 season in which he was hitting .317/.390/.515 in 82 games and was on pace for a 4.0 WAR.

 

 

As for Aram only making 6 million this year luckily we have guys coming off the books, made nearly 20 million last year, should increase ticket revenues significantly from last year with our price increase and us constantly surpassing last years bench marks, as well as the new radio(not sure how much) and Tv deals(20 million in additional revenue). So we're not as desperate for money as some thing. It's funny, I predicted that we'd be at 95 million last year 100 this year and 110 in 2012 and I was called delusional by a member of the forum. Well, we're at 102, Melvin said we still have some flexibility and after 19.2 million in profits and 20 million coming in, that 110 looks awfully conservative for someone who's delusional.

[HiAndTight]

I hope for Ramirez' and the Brewers' sake that he/they get things going pretty soon, otherwise, he is going to really bear the brunt from the fans at Miller Park. As long as the team is winning, he will get a pass, but if the losing streak continues and he's not hitting his weight, look out.

 

 

I tend to give most Brewers fans more credit than that. 9 games in.

[RockCoCougars]

I hope for Ramirez' and the Brewers' sake that he/they get things going pretty soon, otherwise, he is going to really bear the brunt from the fans at Miller Park. As long as the team is winning, he will get a pass, but if the losing streak continues and he's not hitting his weight, look out.

 

 

I tend to give most Brewers fans more credit than that. 9 games in.

 

 

Agreed that it's too early to judge, but guys have gotten booed out of the stadium on Opening Day (Suppan, Helms, Deer to name a few). Let's say that we are 29 games in, the Brewers are 12-17 and Ramirez is hitting .163. Sounds like the perfect storm to me.

[monty57]

I'm not worried about Ramirez this year. He's always been a slow starter, and averages jump dramatically at this point in the season. Barring injury, it's reasonable to believe that he'll be fine offensively this year. It's year 2 and even moreso year 3 where he could very well not live up to his paycheck. I'd have rather stayed away from Ramirez and just played Green, but Ramirez should be good this season.

 

As far as the bullpen, I don't understand why we need two ROOGY's in Loe and Dillard. I'd have rather let Dillard walk and keep de la Cruz, who had better stuff and could pitch multiple innings if need be. However, the problem in the early goings of this year has been that our starters haven't pitched well, so we have used the bad bullpen pitchers too often, and the good bullpen pitchers not often enough. When our starters get things straightened out, we should have a good 7-8-9 combination in the bullpen.

 

Ishikawa is a waste of a spot and is only on the roster because he reminds Roenicke of Kotsay. We'd be better off with a more versatile player, so Izturis would simply be the backup SS.

 

I've said before that I don't see a need for three CF on the team. When we found out Braun was going to be on the team, we should've shopped Morgan and found a RH-hitting corner OF for the bench.

 

All this said, we have a good team this year with as much or more talent than any other team in the division. Melvin has built this team to succeed last year and this year, so I'd expect us to win quite a few games this season. It's after this year where I have concerns, and my question will come if we do continue to falter through the first few months of the season. If we're around .500 in late June, and a couple of teams are pulling away, will Melvin decide to trade away some of the talent we're going to lose after the season (Greinke, Marcum, Wolf, K-Rod) or will he blame things on us not having a LOOGY or a good bat off the bench, and trade away prospects for a futile attempt at success in the second of our two "all in" years?

[Raw Biz]

Ishikawa is a waste of a spot and is only on the roster because he reminds Roenicke of Kotsay. We'd be better off with a more versatile player, so Izturis would simply be the backup SS.

 

I've said before that I don't see a need for three CF on the team. When we found out Braun was going to be on the team, we should've shopped Morgan and found a RH-hitting corner OF for the bench.

 

These are my main two beefs. Ishikawa doesn't prove anything. Gamel shouldn't need many days off and when he does, Hart can play first. If Conrad was up (I guess he's injured now), then he could also play some first while also backing up 2nd and 3rd instead of Izturis. If Green was up, he could probably do the same. I have no problem with Izturis as the backup SS. I have a problem with him being essentially the only backup IF who will probably see 1-2 starts a week.

 

Morgan, while a pretty good player both offensively and defensively, is expendable. He's a good clubhouse guy (at least on this team) but he seems to make a lot of mental mistakes and I'd rather give Aoki his PT.

 

By getting rid of Ishikawa or Morgan, we could solve the Izturis problem. If we got a RH bench player for Morgan, even better. At this point, I would take just about anything for him because I really want Aoki to play and a roster spot to open up.

 

On a side note, his bobblehead day is scheduled for June 10. I doubt the Brewers would get rid of him before then. I have a feeling that's partially why Counsell wasn't cut last year as well.

[HiAndTight]

I tend to give most Brewers fans more credit than that. 9 games in.

 

Agreed that it's too early to judge, but guys have gotten booed out of the stadium on Opening Day (Suppan, Helms, Deer to name a few). Let's say that we are 29 games in, the Brewers are 12-17 and Ramirez is hitting .163. Sounds like the perfect storm to me.

 

 

Yeah, but that's like comparing apples to TV's.

 

Those players had been with the team previously. This is our big FA signing. And yes, I suppose he could get booed early on. But I don't think it's especially useful to speculate as to how bad a player has to be at a certain point to get booed.

[MNBrew]

Ishikawa has PH'd in 7 games and has no hits. Plenty of other PH's have stretches far worse than that but they're buried in the middle of the season. The guy has spent a few years in the bigs -- not stellar, but still legit. If he approaches Nelson/Duffy territory, then that's grounds for DFA talk. For now, he's not the problem at all. As for someone's assertion that Conrad's a better hitter than Ishikawa? What folly!

 

Hairston went for LA b/c the Dodgers offered 2 years and Melvin wouldn't go past one (something about not giving 2-yr deals to backup IFs was at the forefront of his comments at the time -- never mind that he did that previously for Counsell who was far worse of an offensive player than Hairston and far less defensively versatile, though definitely more adept).

 

Green at 3B w/ Hairston (2-yr deal w/ an option) getting some ABs there & everywhere else would leave Izturis getting Rob Picciolo-esque playing time backing up only at SS, which would've been much better (not to mention also much cheaper!).

[Raw Biz]

Ishikawa has PH'd in 7 games and has no hits. Plenty of other PH's have stretches far worse than that but they're buried in the middle of the season. The guy has spent a few years in the bigs -- not stellar, but still legit. If he approaches Nelson/Duffy territory, then that's grounds for DFA talk. For now, he's not the problem at all. Too many crappy starts, too many crappy relief outings, and too many starters not hitting -- THAT's the problem.

 

The problem isn't really Ishikawa's lack of production. It's the fact that he's basically forcing Izturis to play more because he can only play 1st. I would have no problem if Ishikawa was kept as the 25th man if there were another backup 2B/3B on the team.

[monty57]

Ishikawa has PH'd in 7 games and has no hits. Plenty of other PH's have stretches far worse than that but they're buried in the middle of the season. The guy has spent a few years in the bigs -- not stellar, but still legit. If he approaches Nelson/Duffy territory, then that's grounds for DFA talk. For now, he's not the problem at all. Too many crappy starts, too many crappy relief outings, and too many starters not hitting -- THAT's the problem.

 

Hairston went for LA b/c the Dodgers offered 2 years and Melvin wouldn't go past one (something about not giving 2-yr deals to backup IFs was at the forefront of his comments at the time -- never mind that he did that previously for Counsell who was far worse of an offensive player than Hairston and far less defensively versatile, though definitely more adept).

 

Green at 3B w/ Hairston (2-yr deal w/ an option) getting some ABs there & everywhere else would leave Izturis getting Rob Picciolo-esque playing time backing up only at SS, which would've been much better (not to mention also much cheaper!).

 

I agree that the things like the bad starting pitching and others have been the reason we've had the start we've had. However, I'm not too concerned over the first couple of weeks of the season. Over the course of the year, Greinke, Weeks, Ramirez, Gallardo, Axford, etc will play like to players they are. Unfortunately, so will Ishikawa. While the former players should all have good numbers at the end of the season, Ishikawa's inclusion on the 25-man roster remains a mystery only solved by Roenicke's quote that he reminds him of Kotsay. We needed a versatile player who could play multiple positions and we needed a RH bat. Ishikawa provides neither.

 

I believe you are correct on Hairston. If I recall correctly, Hairston was interested in coming back to Milwaukee, but Melvin wouldn't go multiple years, and said something to the effect of "we won't pay $3MM for a bench player this year." The multiple year thing is the reason Barmes went to Pittsburgh. He wanted to come to Milwaukee, but didn't want to decline Pittsburgh's two-year offer and Milwaukee wanted to wait on something (Prince, K-Rod, Ramirez, I can't remember) before committing two years on players like Barmes or Hairston. Not long after this, Melvin decided to go on a spending spree and push the payroll to $102MM.

 

I, too would have liked to see some sort of Green/Hairston combo at 3B instead of Ramirez. Not so much for this season, but definitely for the next couple of years as Ramirez regresses.

[HiAndTight]

On a side note, his bobblehead day is scheduled for June 10. I doubt the Brewers would get rid of him before then. I have a feeling that's partially why Counsell wasn't cut last year as well.

 

That's a bit of a shot at Mark Attanasio and Doug Melvin IMO.

 

I think Counsell was around last year because he was a viable backup at SS and a very good defender around the IF, and had proven to be a good pinch hitter in certain situations and a guy who could draw a walk or at last had proven it in the past.

[HiAndTight]

Ishikawa has PH'd in 7 games and has no hits. Plenty of other PH's have stretches far worse than that but they're buried in the middle of the season. The guy has spent a few years in the bigs -- not stellar, but still legit. If he approaches Nelson/Duffy territory, then that's grounds for DFA talk. For now, he's not the problem at all. Too many crappy starts, too many crappy relief outings, and too many starters not hitting -- THAT's the problem.

 

The problem isn't really Ishikawa's lack of production. It's the fact that he's basically forcing Izturis to play more because he can only play 1st. I would have no problem if Ishikawa was kept as the 25th man if there were another backup 2B/3B on the team.

 

 

Agreed, and I suspect that come June or so, Taylor Green will be brought up to start 1 or 2 games a week and be that PH'er off the bench in place of Ishikawa. Might as well get that extra year out of Green. He's got to be 25 now? No reason to keep him in AAA getting a full year of starts. A full 3 months is fine.

[RockCoCougars]

I believe you are correct on Hairston. If I recall correctly, Hairston was interested in coming back to Milwaukee, but Melvin wouldn't go multiple years, and said something to the effect of "we won't pay $3MM for a bench player this year."

 

This is how I remember it as well. He did the same thing last season with Hinske, who would have came in handy as a bat off the bench. I tend to think that Melvin undervalues these veteran role player types, but he always seems to be in the market for them if the team is competitive in July.

[Funketown]

This is how I remember it as well. He did the same thing last season with Hinske, who would have came in handy as a bat off the bench. I tend to think that Melvin undervalues these veteran role player types, but he always seems to be in the market for them if the team is competitive in July.

 

I tend to think Melvin underestimates the difference between guys like Kotsay/Izturis and guys like Hairston Jr. or Hinske. There may well be some value to having a veteran presence on the team, but why can't we get veterans that can actually contribute on the field?

[ELCABALLO45]

Aramis has for the most part been a slow starter. In his career he has OPS'd .776 in the 1st couple months of the season.

[logan82]

I tend to think Melvin underestimates the difference between guys like Kotsay/Izturis and guys like Hairston Jr. or Hinske.

That sounds about right. I would love the bench if we had Hairston on it. Izturis wouldn't bother me to much with Hairston on the bench as well. I guess it really comes down to Ishikawa being on the team.

[dlk9s]

It would have been amazing to watch the 10th inning tonight with an infield from left to right of Gamel, A-Ram, Weeks, and Ishikawa (although I believe Ishikawa is a very good fielder IIRC).