Minor league Pitching

[Mr Southpaw]

Thanks for the info.

[HiAndTight]

I make an extreme effort to be objective, maybe to a fault, I'm not going to blow smoke and effuse glowing praise of every prospect all the time, I don't see the game that way. At the lower levels I tend to pull my punches but the higher up we go or the higher a player was drafted the more I'm going to focus on both the positive and the negative. As much as I like Wily Peralta, he's pitched poorly relative to his talent this season, and he's not the only top pitching prospect struggling in AAA this year.

 

 

Honestly? You're objective to a "fault?" You form an opinion and then spend the next couple of years arguing against the facts of your knee jerk reaction...like when you blew up over the drafting of Nelson because someone compared him to Suppan. And I don't think a single person with a pulse who reads your posts thinks you're in danger of being too "effuse," in your praise of a pitching prospect, the Brewers, Doug Melvin or anything related to the organization. You're in my effort to be "objective," the most overly negative and just plainly pointlessly negative poster on this board.

 

You Formed an opinion of Jungman after watching him in the college world series and now are dismissing an article written about him that says he's not worried about production and numbers, simply improving this ONE pitch in a particular outing or stretch of outings, throwing his breaking ball in an attempt to develop it in counts he otherwise wouldnt. And you're so oblivious to your bias that you even need to give yourself a pat on the back by commending him for doing what you thought he should do from your scouting of his 10 innings pitched amont the probably 1000 he's pitched in his life.

 

Sorry, but if you want to be as overly the top negative almost regardless of circumstances and bash the Brewers front office for not in your words having a "top farm system and competing year in and year out," then I think you open yourself up to yourself to being called out on what is such a clearly absurd comment IMO.

 

And by the way, people telling everyone else how much of a realist thy are, or how "objective," they are is a HUGE pet peeve of mine.

 

What, do you think you have the market corned on rational and realistic thinking and everyone else is unrealistic? Do ya think just maybe everyone thinks they're a "realist?" Or do you think that most people post things they know to be unrealistic? Or are you just the authority on what's realistic? This isn't limited to you, but the "I'm a realist," comment has always annoyed me a bit.

[HiAndTight]

As for the Brewers failures developing pitchers, I really wonder if they are unique in that regard. Seems to me there are only one or two teams that consistently turn out solid arms.

 

 

I agree with you, and the following post.

 

There are pitchers with the ceilings of aces in every single organization. Hell, there are probably 8-9 in most systems. But with the incredible risk with pitchers, and the fact that pure talent seldom turns into actual big league ability makes it pretty rare for organzations other than SF, TB and maybe a couple other teams from actually getting those guys through all the levels in the minors.

 

And I absolutely agree. College coaches have a job to do. They're not there to refine a guy for the big leagues. It's obviously a bonus, but I doubt Texas was forcing Jungman to throw his curveball in counts he wouldn't otherwise so that he'd be a better pro player.

 

These guys came into the system and jumped right to HiA. So it's entirely reasonable to expect some hiccup's along the way, and I think it's pretty ridiculous to just assume if you're a 1st round pick you should dominate with a "fastball and a so/so secondary pitch." Hell, maybe Bradley and Jungman could, but what good would it do them at AA. Again, not to kick the horse that's just been put down on the track, but the expectations for Brewers pitchers are not realistic IMO.....

 

We've turned a huge corner in our development of pitchers. We could have a rotation of Gallardo, Fiers, Thornburg, Nelson and Peralta in the next 18 months and it could be a very good rotation.

[HiAndTight]

2010 was his second go around in Helena. In 2009 he posted a 5.62 ERA through 14 games.

 

I'm as excited about his breakout season as anyone but maybe we should hold off proclaiming him major league ready based on one season of success in A and AA ball. Mike Fiers dominated every level he was in over a three year period. Burgos had a good 6 games in Rookie ball in 2009 and is having a good 2012. In between he wasn't all that impressive. I'd be fine keeping him in Huntsville the rest of the season and bumping him up to Nashville next year.

 

 

Who are all the people "proclaiming him major league ready," but more than that, if you're dominant in AA, how far away are you from being major league ready?

 

So not only do I not see people jumping him over Rogers, Peralta, Thornburg, Fiers, Estrada, Nelson and others, but I also don't see why it'd be so outlandish to talk about him in terms of our future rotation if he continues to dominate? Players at every level have fundamental changes in the way they throw a particular pitch. A cutter, splitter, whatever, that pitch that makes the rest of their stuff look a couple ticks better.

 

And if the most talent in the minor leagues is generally considered to be in AA and you dominate AA, I don't see how you can just dismiss talk of him being a potential rotation arm in the next year or so.

[jjfanec]

All of the sudden our minor league pitching just go more exciting. The additions of Hellweg and Pena give the Brewers two more AA arms who could challenge for a rotation spot late next year or in 2014. Peralta and Rogers have been much better lately. Fiers has impressed in his MLB stint. Thornburg has his question marks but I think it is way too early to judge. Burgos is now AAA. Nelson is back and pitching. Jungmann has had a few terrible starts but I still think they are asking him to work on secondary pitches. I will withhold judgment until next year because there still has been some bright spots with him.

 

We also have two injured guys who could make some noise next year with Scarpetta and Bucci. Scarpetta could be a nice bullpen arm going forward.

[paul253]

Who are all the people "proclaiming him major league ready," but more than that, if you're dominant in AA, how far away are you from being major league ready?

 

There was talk by another poster of bringing him up to the majors when he was still in BC. But more specifically, it seems like YOU are proclaiming him major league ready.

 

but I also don't see why it'd be so outlandish to talk about him in terms of our future rotation if he continues to dominate?

 

Of course it's not outlandish, but there's pretty significant difference between "now" and "if he continues to dominate". I'm not saying he isn't a good prospect or he isn't having a good season, I'm just tempering my expectations on him until he has more than one season of success. Short of a 6 game stretch in Helena in 2010 he's been a very average pitcher up until now.

[TooLiveBrew]

The additions of Hellweg and Pena give the Brewers t[w]o more AA arms...

You know, there's a lot of talk about how by trading Greinke, Melvin was punting on 2012. But he went all-in with the Huntsville roster! SL Championship or bust, baby! Send Burgos back down!

[jjfanec]

The additions of Hellweg and Pena give the Brewers t[w]o more AA arms...

You know, there's a lot of talk about how by trading Greinke, Melvin was punting on 2012. But he went all-in with the Huntsville roster! SL Championship or bust, baby! Send Burgos back down!

 

I only the read the first half of your post and I thought, "He should have left Burgos down in AA for the ultimate AA rotation!" Burgos, Nelson, Hellweg, and Pena is a solid top 4. The lineup was already really good before getting Segura. Melvin going all in at Huntsville

[TooLiveBrew]

With great fan support like they get in Huntsville, who can blame him?! Literally dozens of fans at every game!

[Mass Haas]

With great fan support like they get in Huntsville, who can blame him?! Literally dozens of fans at every game!

 

Actually, Huntsville's done a fine job in 2012, up a pretty incredible 40% over 2011. Kudos to the staff (and Hunter Morris!)

 

2011 attendance figures

 

2012 attendance figures

[TooLiveBrew]

Man, if I tracked the Stars in the Link Report maybe I'd know something like that...

 

 

Still last, but at least they've improved. Jackson & Huntsville definitely aren't doing something right, though.

[adambr2]

I'm a little disappointed in Jed Bradley. A 5-9 record with a 5.23 ERA in High A is not what we're hoping for at this point.

 

That being said, I'm only judging him by stat lines, is there anything anyone has seen from him this year that they can bring up about him that paints a little more optimistic picture?

[And That]

From what I understand, Bradley's mechanics are a mess and his velocity is down. He had problems with his in college as well, though not quite to the extent he's experienced thus far. Unless he has an arm injury, he should be able to recover the velocity if he fixes the mechanics. If.

[biedergb]

Re: Bradley

Any word on the lower body injury he was dealing with earlier in the year? Was it groin or hamstring? This certainly could throw off mechanics.

The other question is why not stop him for a little while, work on the mechanics and then get back? Obviously now it's a moot point as the season ends later this month. But this could have been done in July.

[jjfanec]

It has been a fun month to look at the pitching in the minors or guys who were recently in the minors.

 

Fiers - Even with a terrible last start he looks like a solid arm in the MLB rotation for the future

Rogers - His last start was terrific. Excited to see if he can stick

 

AAA

Peralta - Looks like he is turning a corner. Had a really nice July. His k-rate is looking really good lately. 54 K's in his last 46 IP.

Thornburg - Looks like he is on a 5 IP limit. 4:1 K to BB ratio in AAA. Granted it is only four starts but that is solid and zero home runs in those starts is also nice

Burgos - One terrible start but as igor said in a recent thread his ascent is reminiscent of Fiers

Bullpen - De los Santos, Sanchez, Henderson, and Wooten all could be part of our bullpen going forward

 

AA

Nelson - I still like him a lot as a prospect but he is walking way too many guys. His walk rate almost tripled from A+ to AA so that could be a fluke. He is still missing bats though

Hellweg - Looks like he will be out of the bullpen for the rest of the year, but like Nelson if he can get the walks down he could be an elite prospect

Pena- Also needs to cut down on the walks.

 

The arms in AA are really exciting but they all have control issues right now. Hopefully that can be fixed

 

A+

Jungmann - His last 3 starts have been much more impressive and he has been missing bats. In his last ten games he had a three start stretch that was brutal but he only gave up 8 runs in the other 7 starts. I think he makes a big jump next year

Bucci - Cant wait to see him jump a few levels next year. The injury was a big disappointment but it is huge that he is back right now and pitching well

Bradley - Ugh

Hall and Gagnon - wish they could miss more bats and I dont know much about them

Miller - Now A+ and am interested to see if he can start to profile as a 4/5 guy

 

A

Not really sure if there is much here to get excited about

 

Rookie leagues - someone can fill this in as well

[jmeks23]

It's probably been mentioned in the other threads (ie the Brevard Co. thread) but Bradley was shut down for the year with an arm issue. Just fatigued I believe.

 

Edit: Got the link http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/165476626.html

[Mr Southpaw]

That's 14 starting pitchers 2 years or less away from MLB. If half pan out we are in good shape. With Fiers, Rogers and Willie P being almost for sure, this should be attainable.