The Reds(!) $200 Million Man: Joey Votto (Latest: Phillips to get extension)

[Outlander]

Yeah, the contract with Weeks will end just shortly after he turn 33 so hopefully the Brewers can resist the temptation in signing him to a bad contract.

[Warning Track Power]

Wow, the Weeks deal is looking better and better with these Phillips and Kinsler signings.

 

GAMELTOE?!?! Well played

[Raw Biz]

 

GAMELTOE?!?! Well played

 

Is that the first you've heard of that? It's pretty much been around since he was drafted.

[Warning Track Power]

I'm in California so I don't have much Brewer chatter other than you guys and this site is rather PG most of the time. Must have missed it...but I can't believe I hadn't thought of it myself.

[TooLiveBrew]

JIM BOWDEN ‏ @JimBowdenESPNxm

...

Deal now confirmed....Phillips and Reds 6-years $72.5m congrats both Reds and Phillips

Rickie Weeks 2B

4 years/$38.5M (2011-14), plus 2015 option

 

As GamelToe (welcome to the board!) noted... yeah. Very good to be a Brewers fan in this instance.

[tstads20]

Wow, they are committing a boat load of money to just two players. I'm more leery of the Phillips signing due to his age by the end of the deal. I don't care if it backfires on them obviously, which it probably will. They better hope some of their young players develop. One thing they'll have a tough time doing is keeping a good pitching staff together. Mainly because of where salaries for pitchers are going.

 

That essentially sums up my thoughts, this will handcuff them in free agency down the road, like the Cubs without any salary flexibility.

 

Can a new TV deal even give them that much room?

[TheCrew07]

Well it's $15 million per year then it basically covers one of the contracts, I'm not saying it's a solid plan and I would be pissed if Melvin signed more players to long-term contracts through their mid 30s. I'm just pointing out that the relative increase in FA spending is rumored to be tied to new TV deals. Some teams have spent on their local contract, some are spending on the supposed new MLB TV deal, some are spending on both.

 

I don't like the Ramirez contract any better even if the Brewers get another windfall of cash to cover the contract but the current payroll would appear to be sustainable at least in the short term given the attendance and performance projections for the team.

 

I like Cincy as an organization, but both contracts were excessive at least in terms of years if not dollars from my opinion as someone who cares very little about homegrown players retiring with their original team. However if I was going attempt these signings then for Votto I would have tried for 7 years with a team option or 2 and Phllips 4 with a team option. If they wanted to risk hitting FA, ohh well. Jocketty is a pretty good GM but I view him similarly to how I view Melvin. I do like that he's willing to take risks on youngsters like Chapman which is right up my alley rather than spending that money on some middling FA pitcher.

[Raw Biz]

I'm in California so I don't have much Brewer chatter other than you guys and this site is rather PG most of the time. Must have missed it...but I can't believe I hadn't thought of it myself.

 

I think it's been in the IGTs a few times but I see it a lot on fantasy baseball team name sites.

[brewmann04]

wow seems like Melvin has done great job with his deals

[3and2Fastball]

Wow the Reds really overpayed for Phillips

[Jaycruiser99]

I see nothing wrong with another NL Central team getting salary strapped....

[JackNicholson1974]

It seems that Melvin executed the Braun, Weeks and Gallardo contracts at the right time. Had he waited, Braun would be looking for Votto money, Weeks for Phillips money and Gallardo for Cain money. Well done, Melvin. THe worry here though is that we might have to wait for these new extensions to "go bad" before we can make a good deal again. Baseball works in cycles like that. A bunch of guys sign longterm big money deals, and everybody wants to point to their deals for their next contracts. In my opinion, the only way a general manager can bargain down is if he is able to point out that the contract handed out previously by another team, is now really bad and strapping that team because the player is way underperforming. So it might be 3-5 years before we can get a nice bargain again, which is fine since we have all or most of your young players locked up anyway.

[TooLiveBrew]

Well Braun approached the team about his extension iirc, so that shouldn't really count too much for Melvin. I agree that all three extensions look pretty good right now, though.

[Warning Track Power]

I know some of you will disagree but I'd like to add Hart's deal in the discussion as well. 3 years/$26.5 million. He has been pretty special at the plate in 2010, 2011 and so far in 2012 and I feel he is generally underappreciated for what he brings to the team.

[Bigblast]

I know some of you will disagree but I'd like to add Hart's deal in the discussion as well. 3 years/$26.5 million. He has been pretty special at the plate in 2010, 2011 and so far in 2012 and I feel he is generally underappreciated for what he brings to the team.

 

 

Hart is no Kevin Mench but he's pretty good.

[thebruce44]

I'm in California so I don't have much Brewer chatter other than you guys and this site is rather PG most of the time. Must have missed it...but I can't believe I hadn't thought of it myself.

 

I said it once a few years ago in a post and had a bunch of people get mad and call me immature, probably even worse than when I called the Journal Sentinel the Urinal Sentinel. I'm always shocked when people don't know about something that's basically common knowledge around MKE, at least you can have a sense of humor about it.

[NievesNoNO]

Two thoughts:

 

1. That's a lot of money to be banked on a mid-thirties middle infielder. Those guys tend to wear down a lot more quickly than a say a corner IF. Bad investment IMO.

 

2. Votto is a beast. I can't say it's a bad investment but as others have indicated the contract won't end well. He is the 2nd best 1B in baseball right next to Pujols in my mind though. At 1B I think he'll age better than most. I'm thinking a Frank Thomas like decline so I don't think it's completely dead money but they've definitely locked themselves in and limited their options going forward.

 

I'm not saying this happened with Votto, but if you believe you have a special player then it's all the more reason to get them to the big leagues sooner as opposed to trying to limit their service time.

[Warning Track Power]

I'm in California so I don't have much Brewer chatter other than you guys and this site is rather PG most of the time. Must have missed it...but I can't believe I hadn't thought of it myself.

 

I said it once a few years ago in a post and had a bunch of people get mad and call me immature, probably even worse than when I called the Journal Sentinel the Urinal Sentinel. I'm always shocked when people don't know about something that's basically common knowledge around MKE, at least you can have a sense of humor about it.

 

I can't begin to tell you how upset I was when they started charging after 20 free articles. Who are they ESPN?

[berniebrewer4life]

I'm in California so I don't have much Brewer chatter other than you guys and this site is rather PG most of the time. Must have missed it...but I can't believe I hadn't thought of it myself.

 

I said it once a few years ago in a post and had a bunch of people get mad and call me immature, probably even worse than when I called the Journal Sentinel the Urinal Sentinel. I'm always shocked when people don't know about something that's basically common knowledge around MKE, at least you can have a sense of humor about it.

 

I can't begin to tell you how upset I was when they started charging after 20 free articles. Who are they ESPN?

 

only reason i went there was for the sports blogs, now with the paywall, i just go elsewhere.

[Outlander]

I know some of you will disagree but I'd like to add Hart's deal in the discussion as well. 3 years/$26.5 million. He has been pretty special at the plate in 2010, 2011 and so far in 2012 and I feel he is generally underappreciated for what he brings to the team.

 

Can't disagree with that, his numbers have been real good since 2010 and his contract runs out next year when he is 31 and hopefully Gindl can take over at league minimum so that they can afford some pitching.

[CheezWizHed]

only reason i went there was for the sports blogs, now with the paywall, i just go elsewhere.

 

that is a very low hurdle to avoid... I haven't seen that limitation message in months.

[monty57]

THe worry here though is that we might have to wait for these new extensions to "go bad" before we can make a good deal again.

 

I think the best deals recently have been the ones done when the player still has some pre-arby time left and which buy out the arby years and 1-2 years of free agency (like the original Braun deal). We just did this with Lucroy, and could lock up Gamel soon if he proves himself at the MLB level. In my opinion these, much more than the deals done near the end of the arby period or big name free agent deals, are the ones that allow small/mid-market teams to remain competitive. Signing Greinke to a Cain-type deal may feel good, but future deals of 4 year, $12MM with team options to make it 6 year $27MM (like Leubke just signed with the Padres) to guys like Peralta, Jungman, Bradley, Thornberg, etc will be more sensible and probably more effective long-term. They'll keep our rotation good, and since the salary is never too high, they will allow for us to trade the player if a younger, cheaper guy allows us that luxury.

 

The Reds just did what a lot of people do. They heard they were getting money and they spent it before they ever saw it. It may work for them for a while, but how many 36-year-old second baseman or 40-year-old 1B have earned high eight-figure salaries?

[HiAndTight]

It seems that Melvin executed the Braun, Weeks and Gallardo contracts at the right time. Had he waited, Braun would be looking for Votto money, Weeks for Phillips money and Gallardo for Cain money. Well done, Melvin. THe worry here though is that we might have to wait for these new extensions to "go bad" before we can make a good deal again. Baseball works in cycles like that. A bunch of guys sign longterm big money deals, and everybody wants to point to their deals for their next contracts. In my opinion, the only way a general manager can bargain down is if he is able to point out that the contract handed out previously by another team, is now really bad and strapping that team because the player is way underperforming. So it might be 3-5 years before we can get a nice bargain again, which is fine since we have all or most of your young players locked up anyway.

 

 

And if the product of that is having to sign ONE player, Zach Greinke, to an inflated contract, then so be it. He's that important to ANY chance the Brewers have to win a World Series, sometimes you bite the bullett and you make that deal.

 

Hart was signed at a time when I thought he should have been traded(proven very wrong).

Weeks was signed a year later after I thought he should have been(proven right IMO).

Yo was also signed even later than I would have as I would have gone 8 years 60+ million to sign him earlier as he just strikes me as a guy who can stay healthy with a very solid delivery.

 

Beyond that, if we have to lose Weeks in a couple years, I think Gennett should be ready. If we have to lose Hart in a couple years, Aoki/Schafer/Gindl could fill in admirably and you can take that 20+ million and allocate it elsewhere.

 

I'm in the minority, though I'd like to see Weeks hand around and get paid before he comes up, I don't think that guys like Green, Gamel, Gennett, Schafer, Braun, Aoki, Lucroy and guys like that can make a balanced enough and productive enough lineup to win IF we can maintain an elite pitching staff and even take that a step further and throw in any number of our talented starting pitchers, or a power armed relievers coming up through the system that I think we could have a 12 man staff that could really be dominant from top to bottom.

 

And a lineup that could be exceptional defensively.

 

 

Not to mention, two years ago the thought of Tyler Thornburg literally being a potential starter for THIS SEASON was unfathomable. Who's to say Richardson isn't going to be that breakout player this year and just mash his way though AA and become an elitle prospect. Or Kentrail Davis who has the potential to be "that guy," still could break out.

 

So we don't know which offensive player is going to step up and become a stud, and I'm of the belief that Gamel is going to be a 4+ WAR player, Green a Mark Loretta with 20+ HR type player, Lucroy I think could hit 18, Schafer I think could hit 15....Weeks and Braun could hit 75 together...we could have a lineup of .275/340 type hitters who can play defense, and lack superstars, but is more tha good enough to produce a lineup that can thrive with it's top to bottom solid production, as we build a GREAT rotation.

Not to mention, you'd be looking at saving a helluva lot of money to go with young players.

 

And a side note, we have to go BPA with our 3 1st round picks, but we DO have 3 first rounders. Who's to say we can't find a couple offensive gems in there who move quickly and are in Milwaukee in a couple years or used as trade bait?

 

Bottom line, I think that our farm system is vastly underrated, we'll have to see what happens next year, but I think we see this system in the top 12 or so next year and still rising.

[HiAndTight]

I know some of you will disagree but I'd like to add Hart's deal in the discussion as well. 3 years/$26.5 million. He has been pretty special at the plate in 2010, 2011 and so far in 2012 and I feel he is generally underappreciated for what he brings to the team.

 

Can't disagree with that, his numbers have been real good since 2010 and his contract runs out next year when he is 31 and hopefully Gindl can take over at league minimum so that they can afford some pitching.

 

 

Or...Aoki. I have been incredibly impressed with him so far this year.

 

He could easily be an everyday leadoff hitter who posts a .375 OBP with fantastic defense.

 

I think we get caught up a bit too much in trying to fit partiular offensive skill sets into defensive positions. But lets put Rickie's production in RF and Aoki's at 2nd base. Nobody would complain. In fact, we'd be thriled. So what he won't hit 30 HR's. Neither does Ichiro.

[Nottso]

I think we get caught up a bit too much in trying to fit partiular offensive skill sets into defensive positions.

 

Amen.

 

 

But lets put Rickie's production in RF and Aoki's at 2nd base.

 

Let's not give some people any ideas, lest the clamoring begin.