Wolf-Luc situation

[Madtown343]

I've removed 36 posts that were triggered by a suggestion that Luke may be "dumb" because he and Randy Wolf have had trouble getting onto the same page.

 

If anyone would like to start a topic on the Lucroy-Wolf situation, feel free. However, let's leave allegations about a player's intelligence out of it.

 

 

Since this was stated in the lucroy signing thread I figured it would be good discussion. I am sure it has been discussed in the past, but it seems relevant again.

[Madtown343]

My take, I am not sure what they can't get over, but the team would be better if they did.

 

Lucroy needs more days off, and more strategically to avoid wearing him down.

 

Kottaras should play versus tough RH pitchers, and on days luc needs a rest not when wolf pitches.

 

I think competitively the team would be better if they eliminated the kottaras wolf combo and just used kottaras when it made the most sense schedule or match up wise.

[Invader3K]

I don't get what the big deal is about it. Wolf was certainly effective last year, and if it requires Kottaras catching him to help out, so be it.

[Bigblast]

A players intelligence could be a factor. I doubt it in this case though. I think its just a certian feal Randy Wolf has with the catcher. I think its more about wolf then lucroy. Frankly I think That Randy while a good pitcher is not an elite pitcher that should be able to have is own personal catcher. However I guess if it works it works

 

There is a player that I would question at least his baseball intelligence is Carlos Gomez. That guy seems to have ton's of raw talent but very little baseball intelligence. He seems to repeat the same mistakes over and over especially on the base pads.

[Hitman_Hart]

I seem to remember when Gomez was Twins property hearing Dick Bremer say, on more than occasion, that Gomez didn't even begin playing baseball until he was in his late teens (16, 17?) when he was scouted by the Mets and signed for his speed.

 

I may be mis-remembering, but I remember thinking that it was odd and extraordinarily unprofessional to sign a guy for speed only. This isn't the Charley Finley era of baseball anymore.

 

But on the topic at hand, I'm inclined to believe that the days of the Wolf-Kottaras combo are on their way out as Luc is on the upswing and Wolf on the down. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Luc catching Wolf for his first start of the year.

[bork]

I don't think it has anything to do with intelligence. It's pretty hard to get comfortable with a pitcher if you never get a chance to catch him, especially a guy like Wolf who may be more difficult to work with. Two years ago, Lucroy was in AA. Last year, he missed spring training. So the only times he really had to catch Wolf were in the middle of the season. I see he has caught Wolf in 3 of his 5 spring starts this year, so hopefully that is a sign of things to come.

[topper09er]

When Marcum gave up the grand slam to Paul Goldschmidt in the playoffs he had to call Lucroy out to the mound because of sign confusion during the AB. Wolf clearly has problem with him so much so that they never play together, thus forcing Kottaras to start vs lefties and Lucroy to face tough righties more than they both should, which hurts the team. I feel like this is not an acceptable solution just because it is the easiest or because it makes Wolf, the veteran, happy. RRR should figure this out, hopefully he will.

 

Kottaras vs LHP: .184/.308/.327

Lucroy vs LHP: .288/.313/.494

 

Kottaras has started 22 games the past 2 seasons vs a LHP.

[MJLiverock]

My post from the other thread got deleted. I'd rather have the pitcher comfortable for the roughly 28 AB's he has to go through than worry about the platoon split improvement for 2 or 3 AB's.

 

I have no idea why Wolf and Lucroy don't mesh up, maybe it as just the lack of spring reps together during the last two years or maybe it is something else. Why did Ben Sheets have to have Chad Moeller? I don't know that RR is letting Wolf solely use Kottaras just because Wolf is veteran, it may well be he really pitches better or feels he pitches better with Kottaras calling the shots and he thinks the 28 ABs is more important than the 2 or 3 ABs.

[monty57]

One thing that really gets me about the situation is that last year Roenicke took Kottaras out of the game when Wolf left, meaning that Lucroy would never get a full day off. Plus he'd start day games after night games unless Wolf was pitching. I think Lucroy got worn down as the season went on, so I hope he's able to get some rest this season so he can remain productive.

 

If it's really that important to Wolf, then I guess I can live with the odd matchups, but I hope they can get through it so we see more of a "standard" mix, where Kottaras would only start when a RHP was on the mound or on a day game after a night game.

[1992casey]

Ben Sheets didn't "have" to have Chad Moeller. It just worked out that Ned wanted to use the personal catcher concept to divide up duties. Ben's comments about the situation were pretty nonchalant, and as the season went on, Miller caught Sheets too.

 

I think bork is on the right track as far as the Lucroy-Wolf thing. Luke was called up earlier than expected and likely didn't have much experience with Randy. Last year, he missed spring training. There's no indication of any personal issues between the two.

 

I'm glad they're working together this spring. Hopefully, some good results come of it.

[Madtown343]

In addition in a playoff series versus Philly with Hamels and lee pitching I would want lucroy out there even if wolf is pitching.

 

They need to get past this early in the season and start the catcher that gives the team the best match up or schedule break at that time.

[Ennder]

I think Wolf is a crybaby personally.

[CheezWizHed]

When Marcum gave up the grand slam to Paul Goldschmidt in the playoffs he had to call Lucroy out to the mound because of sign confusion during the AB.

 

Sign confusion would be one possibility. So could disagreement on how they are attacking hitters or in-game adjustments on a certain pitch that the pitcher can't throw well that day.

 

Having both pitched and caught in high school ([sarcasm]thus, I'm an expert in both and no one should doubt my expertise[/sarcasm]), there are many reasons you need a mound conference.

[Invader3K]

I think Wolf is a crybaby personally.

 

I can't tell if you're being serious or not.

[TooLiveBrew]

I remember Wolf making a comment last year like, 'I wouldn't want to catch me,' referring to how complicated his sign system is. He's definitely not a "crybaby"... man, what is with the namecalling over this issue? It's obviously a lot more complex than "he's stupid!" or "he's a crybaby!" I'm honestly surprised we have people stooping to namecalling.

[Invader3K]

It's like people have forgotten how good Wolf has been for his duration with the Brewers. You'd think he was Jeff Suppan or something.

[jhart05]

I never understood why this was such a big deal to some.

 

Lucroy can't catch every game.

 

Roenicke is a manager that likes his reserves to know a few days in advance when they are starting.

 

So you pair your backup catcher with one of your starters. That may mean a few times each year Kottaras starts against a LHP, not a big deal to me.

[xisxisxis]

I never understood why this was such a big deal to some.

 

Lucroy can't catch every game.

 

 

Pitcher and catcher are 1 and 2 for most physically demanding positions in baseball. starting pitchers usually get 4 days rest between starts. While most teams go with a 60/40 or 80/20 split for catchers, our manager seems to prefer a 85/15 split (PH Lucroy as soon as wolf leaves a game). Not only can a catcher not catch every game, he shouldn't be one of the first PH options the one game he doesn't catch if we expect him to be productive the entire season.

 

My only issue with the Wolf-Lucroy situation is that RR should have been in Wolf (or any other players) face when they publicly show up another player.

[thebruce44]

I never understood why this was such a big deal to some.

 

Lucroy can't catch every game.

 

 

Pitcher and catcher are 1 and 2 for most physically demanding positions in baseball. starting pitchers usually get 4 days rest between starts. While most teams go with a 60/40 or 80/20 split for catchers, our manager seems to prefer a 85/15 split (PH Lucroy as soon as wolf leaves a game). Not only can a catcher not catch every game, he shouldn't be one of the first PH options the one game he doesn't catch if we expect him to be productive the entire season.

 

My only issue with the Wolf-Lucroy situation is that RR should have been in Wolf (or any other players) face when they publicly show up another player.

 

If RR can't figure out that Lucroy needs a full day off at some point in the season, I don't expect him to figure out to get in someone's face. The catching platoon needs to be able to catch each pitcher so that they can simply get Luc off the field effectively.

[jerichoholicninja]

Catchers need days off and if you want to do that by making "personal catchers" that's fine.

 

However, based on Ron's use of Lucroy with Wolf pitching (putting Lucroy in the game after Wolf comes out) tells me that Randy refuses to let Lucroy catch him. Which seems very petty and "crybaby-ish" to me.

 

If Lucroy can catch Gallardo and Greinke (2 elite pitchers and one potential head case) without problems, he should be able to catch Wolf.

[brewtank34]

Lucroy should only get an off-day when Wolf pitches in the event that the opposing pitcher is a right hander. If the pitcher is a lefty... Wolf needs to suck it up.

[Oldcity]

I remember Wolf making a comment last year like, 'I wouldn't want to catch me,' referring to how complicated his sign system is. He's definitely not a "crybaby"... man, what is with the namecalling over this issue? It's obviously a lot more complex than "he's stupid!" or "he's a crybaby!" I'm honestly surprised we have people stooping to namecalling.

I don't see how the crybaby comment is so out of line. The Lucroy thing is just one thing. I've never seen a pitcher so routinely look visibly frustrated by balls and strikes calls. He walks off the mound before an umpire's call all the time, which shows up the ump. One time last year he hit a long foul ball and emphatically called for a replay. Of course, replay showed the ball was easily foul.

 

Wolf has just always bugged me. The personal catcher thing adds to it for me, although obviously I don't know the details there.

[logan82]

Seems pretty obvious to me, Lucroy stole some of Wolf's classic Star Wars figures.

[CheezWizHed]

That's just silly... everyone knows that Lucroy is the Episode 1-3 generation. He wouldn't care about Wolf's Episode 4-6 collection.

[Ennder]

It's like people have forgotten how good Wolf has been for his duration with the Brewers. You'd think he was Jeff Suppan or something.

 

I was serious that I think Wolf is most likely the problem and not Lucroy. I think he has been pretty good with us and I even defended his contract when everyone complained about it, I like Wolf as a personality too. I think he still is the one making this an issue and not Lucroy though. Lucroy doesn't have problems with other pitchers and it seems like Wolf got frustrated really fast with Lucroy, it probably didn't hurt that he was struggling so Lucroy gave him an easy out to blame whether it was warranted or not.