Ryan Madsen out for the season

[liveforoctober]

His contract was guaranteed.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/spring2012/story/_/id/7731716/cincinnati-reds-closer-ryan-madson-miss-season-elbow

 

Chapman now in line?

[burnzy24]

That sucks for him and the Reds. I bet Philly is now even more thankful the chose Papelbon over Madsen. Also, if Boras and Madsen were extremely bitter over the contract fiasco with Philly before the injury I fully expect Boras to go into full temper-tantrum mode now.

[bobbledude25]

"Ligament was torn from the bone" cringe!

 

Huge loss for the Reds

[PrinceFielderx1]

If Chapman has to move to the pen because of this, wouldn't the Reds just have wasted 39 million on those two players (Madson, Chapman). They paid Chapman all of that money to be in the rotation, right?

[brewtank34]

If Chapman has to move to the pen because of this, wouldn't the Reds just have wasted 39 million on those two players (Madson, Chapman). They paid Chapman all of that money to be in the rotation, right?

 

Yup. From what I gathered from MLBN's 30 Teams/30 Days (Reds), Jockety has no reservations with sending Chapman down to the minors to further progress as a starter if he doesn't make the rotation. Not sure if this changes their minds, but I'm thinking they will stand pat on developing Chapman as a starter. This is a major blow for the Reds.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Carpenter hurt for the Cards and Madson goes down for the year. Things are starting off rather nicely for us. Maybe we can have some health this year. Winning 96 games with all of the injuries last year was a pretty amazing accomplishment.

[brettac1]

This was a nice thing for me today in an auction draft. I nominated Madson in a normal spot where he would be, and he ended up going for $10. Then I got Marshall with my second to last pick for $1.

 

Regardless of this injury I think the Reds are the best team in the division. Madson's nothing special.

[dlk9s]

Carpenter hurt for the Cards and Madson goes down for the year. Things are starting off rather nicely for us. Maybe we can have some health this year. Winning 96 games with all of the injuries last year was a pretty amazing accomplishment.

 

The Brewers were incredibly healthy last year.

[Baldkin]

The Brewers were incredibly healthy last year.

 

Starting pitching, sure, but otherwise they weren't. They still had 2 starting pitchers go on the DL last year. I mean, heck, they started off the season with 5 guys on the DL, and that doesn't include Saito who went on the DL after 2 games.

 

Things were so bad in the bullpen in June, Daniel Ray Herrera became a viable option.

 

Edit: They were pretty much middle of the pack by games missed on the DL

[PrinceFielderx1]

 

Regardless of this injury I think the Reds are the best team in the division. Madson's nothing special.

 

I have to disagree with all of this. I believe the Brewers are the best team in the division. They won 96 games last season and in my opinion could have won more if Weeks didn't hurt his ankle. 2011 division champs. They only lost Fielder, but added A-Ram. The Reds went 79-83 last season and have a lot to prove before I will say they are the best team in the division. A lot to prove.

 

The Brewers should be the favorites heading into this 2012 season, and I would call the Madson injury a decent loss for the Reds.

[brettac1]

I think the Brewers will be in the race, but be closer to like 83-87 wins or so. I think the Reds will top 90 wins. I think Madson/Marshall is a wash.

[burnzy24]

I think the Brewers will be in the race, but be closer to like 83-87 wins or so. I think the Reds will top 90 wins. I think Madson/Marshall is a wash.

 

You are a pretty optimistic person if you think any team will be just fine if they lose their closer. The Reds with Madsen and Marshall are a much better team than the Reds with just Marshall. The Reds are losing depth here. Take away one from the K-Rod/Axford combo and the Brewers would be a worse team too. Also consider the fact that Marshall has only saved 7 games in his career. I'm not saying that this shows he can't be an effective closer, but he hasn't exactly proven that he can hold down the closer role for an entire season.

[PrinceFielderx1]

I think the Brewers will be in the race, but be closer to like 83-87 wins or so. I think the Reds will top 90 wins. I think Madson/Marshall is a wash.

 

You honestly believe the Brewers will be 10+ games worse, because of the loss of Fielder? No way is he worth 10 wins. The Brewers will also have K-Rod for the entire season which should make the Brewers bullpen better than it was last season and bring much needed stability that they haven't had in a long time. This Brewers team is in my opinion a 90+ win team as is right now. Probably closer to 92-94 wins, but I could easily see them get to 96 wins depending on what Gamel does offensively.

 

Lots of analysts are overstating the loss of Fielder on this team.

[brettac1]

They do lose depth, but Chapman will likely just slide into the pen and help absorb that loss. I don't put much stock into whether a guy is a proven closer or not. Marshall has thrown about 150 excellent innings over the past two seasons that make me think he can do the job fine.

[Ennder]

I think the Brewers will be in the race, but be closer to like 83-87 wins or so. I think the Reds will top 90 wins. I think Madson/Marshall is a wash.

 

 

So you think trading for Latos makes them a 11 win better team? This was a sub .500 team last year that hasn't really changed much this year, no reason to expect them to win 90 suddenly. They didn't have injuries that sidelined the team or anything, they just weren't all that good.

[3and2Fastball]

Maybe the Reds will be desperate now and give us Joey Votto for Axford

 

Seriously though, that is a pretty significant injury for them.

[igor67]

In the post Eck era losing a closer by a contender is always a big deal. It shouldn't have to be, but it makes the GM and manager jumpy. Even under the best of conditions it usually seems to take a month before the replacement issue is settled. In the meantime you have a manager moving guys around trying to find a solution... The odds of that creating even more problems are decent. Not as big a deal as losing Votto or a #1, but still it tightens whatever narrow advantage they may have had on everyone else over the course of the season.

[Invader3K]

It seems like the Reds have been the sexy pick in the NL Central for the past several years. I really don't get what the hype is about. They have some nice pieces, but don't feel like a complete package like the Brewers or even the Cardinals, in my view.

[Ennder]

I agree invader. The Reds are sort of where the Brewers were a few years back, they just don't have the pitching or the depth to take the next step yet. I think they are an above .500 team this year and sure they could be the team that gets more wins than they deserve and make the playoffs like the Diamondbacks last year but they are still a low 80 win roster.

[JohnBriggs12]

The Reds are vastly overrated. Unless Bruce and Stubbs actually produce to their potential (and they haven't yet) it's a lineup that has 2 stars in Votto and Phillips and not all that much else. Having to use Marshall or perhaps Massett to close seriously affects their bullpen depth. They added Latos to their rotation, but he's going from Petco to GAB, which cannot be undersold. The rest of their rotation are guys who've had flashes of brilliance combined with injuries and ineffectiveness.

 

That's not to say they can't win, but the Reds have just as many question marks as anyone. I still think if they stay healthy (a big if), the Cardinals are the team to beat, but you can throw a blanket over the top three. I don't see any one of them winning more than 90.

[brettac1]

I don't think it's that much to do with Latos, and more to do with young guys who are ready to take a step forward with their offense. Guys like Bruce, Stubbs, Heisey, etc. as well as already having an MVP guy like Votto. I'm also a big fan of Mesoraco. They are two years removed from winning 91 games (and not in Diamondbacks fashion - they had a +105 run differential) and they haven't gotten old since then or anything, aside from Rolen (who was the major injury they had last year).

[crewcrazy]

Bruce has reminded me a bit of Corey Hart the past couple years -- a very nice player, not quite a star to build your team around, but a very valuable piece to have nonetheless. He's normally a good defender in right, but it looks like the metrics weren't too kind to him last year. I keep forgetting that he's only heading into his age 25 season this year, and he's already shown 25-30 HR power.

 

The Reds are going to hit, but I'm curious to see how Latos does shifting from an extreme pitcher's park to an extreme hitter's park. I love his stuff, and he's only going to be 24 this year. I think the Reds are actually set up more for long-term success than immediate success, which is a bit ironic since Votto seems to be on the Prince Fielder Track. Even if they can't keep him, though, they'll still have a team that should be able to compete in his absence.

 

Losing Madson stinks for them in the sense that a team with a smaller payroll is flushing $8.5 million down the toilet, but at least they only committed to him for one year. He's a very good relief pitcher, but probably worth 2 wins or less to them, and they have a pretty strong bullpen as it is. As others have noted, the real sting from this injury will come from moving Chapman back to the pen, or the possibility of them overpaying for someone at the trade deadline if they're still in the race. I'm hesitant to say the Phillies "dodged a bullet" when they're still on the hook for $50 million worth of Jonathan Papelbon.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Are the Reds even in a position to overpay for someone at the deadline when they are on the hook for all of Madson 8.5 million salary? I'm wondering how much they have already stretched their payroll.

[logan82]

You honestly believe the Brewers will be 10+ games worse, because of the loss of Fielder? No way is he worth 10 wins.

The Brewers probably didn't really have 96 win talent last year so the drop of 10 games is partly Fielder but mostly just playing back towards their talent level.

[brettac1]

You honestly believe the Brewers will be 10+ games worse, because of the loss of Fielder? No way is he worth 10 wins.

The Brewers probably didn't really have 96 win talent last year so the drop of 10 games is partly Fielder but mostly just playing back towards their talent level.

That is exactly what I think. They were more like a 90 win team last year and were very fortunate with injuries.