Is Michael Young a Future H.O.F'er?

[bobbledude25]

Ah yes, those 2 links sure prove your point pal. One was a bobblehead post which I won't deny trading or selling in the past and the other post was from when 2008? So continue to make your genius assumptions.

 

'It is obvious you collect as many autos as you can to "trade" if not sell on this forum and you set up a paypal account (which you needed help to decipher) also on this forum so one can only infer this was to sell auto's. '

 

- quite possibly the dumbest sentence I have ever seen written on any board. Sorry I buy stuff on Ebay using Paypal. I'll cancel my account to make you happy lol. keep up the GREAT detective work

[Menace II Sobriety]

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[razzzorsharp]

So....Anyone else like bacon?

[brewers19]

I strongly suggest everyone only discuss Michael Young, the HOF, and related topics from here on out in this thread.

[dlk9s]

I strongly suggest everyone only discuss Michael Young, the HOF, and related topics from here on out in this thread.

 

http://i.imgur.com/FHDq7.gif

[mothershipconnection]

Corey Hart's was 5th in the league in sac flies in 2008 and had more RBI's in his age-24 season than Stan Musial.

So, Hall of Fame?

[BrewersSuperCollector]

Bottom line:

 

3,000 hits = Yes

<3,000 hits = No

It all depends on how he ages, and whether teams are willing to make room for him in their lineup when he hits 39 or 40. These things generally tend to work themselves out with the 'elite' guys getting that chance, and the borderline guys not. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking of guys like Baines, Buckner, etc. We are seeing that right now with Johnny Damon (who I want to get 3,000.... because ironically enough, I have an autographed rookie card of his that I got out of an impulse buy on a pack of cards which was guaranteed an autograph in I believe 1996).

 

In my view, Young's best chance would involve staying relatively healthy and productive and doing so in Texas a la Biggio with the Astros.

 

 

I concur...

 

Harold Baines, Omar Vizquel, Al Oliver, Rusty Staub, Johnny Damon, etc. all had very good careers, but I don't believe HOF material. Michael Young fits this criteria.

[Bikeage77]

Wow, the Michael Young haters are out in full affect! lol. To say "absolutely not" and he "doesn't deserve it" I think is a bit of a stretch. He's the 3rd fastest right-handed hitter to ever reach 2,000 hits. Imagine if played in NY or Boston his entire career. Who ever said you have to play great defense to get in the Hall of Fame? I'm not here to defend the guy and yes, I agree right now he shouldn't get in but the possibility of him making it in can happen.

 

Is this just an argument to see if down the line the ball will be worth more? I'm only half joking.

[Ennder]

For the record I don't hate Michael Young, he is everything that is right about baseball. Hard worker, has moved positions multiple times now to make room for young guys (though he did complain some this last time of course). He just isn't anywhere near a HOF quality player. He might sneak in because voters are in love with 3000 hit marks (if he makes it) but he will just be another in the list of guys who really shouldn't be in that get voted in.

 

Then again if Kirby Puckett can get in just about anyone can.

[bobbledude25]

Bikeage - That was definately not my intent with this post although others are 100% convinced it is. Which makes me laugh. This post will end up getting locked if we jump back into that. I should have left the autograph part out apparently. But honestly, my thought was wow, I just got a pretty cool autograph, I wonder if Michael Young could make the HOF someday

[RightFieldCoder]

Kirby Puckett played 12 years total, ages 24-35. WAR 44.8, two WS rings, .318/.360/.477, 124 OPS+.

Michael Young has 12 years so far, ages 23-34. WAR 26.9, two WS losses, .304/.350/.451, 106 OPS+

 

Unless Michael Young becomes Barry Bonds and suddenly gets better at the end of his career, there's no way he gets in.

 

(Note: I don't care about WS results in HOF and this doesn't take into affect defense. But we all know that this is how the voters will look at it.)

[bobbledude25]

Kirby Puckett played 12 years total, ages 24-35. WAR 44.8, two WS rings, .318/.360/.477, 124 OPS+.

Michael Young has 12 years so far, ages 23-34. WAR 26.9, two WS losses, .304/.350/.451, 106 OPS+

 

Unless Michael Young becomes Barry Bonds and suddenly gets better at the end of his career, there's no way he gets in.

 

(Note: I don't care about WS results in HOF and this doesn't take into affect defense. But we all know that this is how the voters will look at it.)

 

What do you think if he get's to 3,000 hits though? Unless thats what you meant by the Bonds statement. Would you agree with others that he's in then but shouldn't be

[Baldkin]

Someone is going to get to 3,000 hits and not get in. It will happen, the same way it happened with 400 HRs, and now could very well will with 500 HRs -- Gary Sheffield.

 

My guess is that guy will be Johnny Damon (if he can find a job), who is 277 short of 3000, but it could very well be Michael Young.

[pitchleague]

Someone is going to get to 3,000 hits and not get in. It will happen, the same way it happened with 400 HRs, and now could very well will with 500 HRs -- Gary Sheffield.

 

My guess is that guy will be Johnny Damon (if he can find a job), who is 277 short of 3000, but it could very well be Michael Young.

 

 

hmm, Mark McGwire has failed for a few years now and Sammy Sosa (600+ HR) might fail as well.

 

Or were you just referencing "clean" players? (Sheffield may be "clean" because he never appeared on a "list" but that doesn't mean he didn't use.

[logan82]

I thought Sheffield used the roids.

[Baldkin]

Someone is going to get to 3,000 hits and not get in. It will happen, the same way it happened with 400 HRs, and now could very well will with 500 HRs -- Gary Sheffield.

 

My guess is that guy will be Johnny Damon (if he can find a job), who is 277 short of 3000, but it could very well be Michael Young.

 

 

hmm, Mark McGwire has failed for a few years now and Sammy Sosa (600+ HR) might fail as well.

 

Or were you just referencing "clean" players? (Sheffield may be "clean" because he never appeared on a "list" but that doesn't mean he didn't use.

 

Yeah, I meant guys without the taint of steroids. I don't think Sheff gets in even if he doesn't play in the steroid era. McGwire and Sosa would both be in, easily, if they weren't tainted.

[Outlander]

Palmerio already hit 500/3000 and won't be getting in. It is forgotten but even before the steroid stuff there was debate if he would ever get voted in.

[jerichoholicninja]

Someone is going to get to 3,000 hits and not get in. It will happen, the same way it happened with 400 HRs, and now could very well will with 500 HRs -- Gary Sheffield.

 

My guess is that guy will be Johnny Damon (if he can find a job), who is 277 short of 3000, but it could very well be Michael Young.

 

 

hmm, Mark McGwire has failed for a few years now and Sammy Sosa (600+ HR) might fail as well.

 

Or were you just referencing "clean" players? (Sheffield may be "clean" because he never appeared on a "list" but that doesn't mean he didn't use.

 

Yeah, I meant guys without the taint of steroids. I don't think Sheff gets in even if he doesn't play in the steroid era. McGwire and Sosa would both be in, easily, if they weren't tainted.

 

Didn't Sheff admit to unknowingly using the "cream"? Maybe I'm confusing him with Bonds but I though Sheff admitted it too.

[Dollarbill13]

Keep in mind that there are only ~3 people elected in an average year. Start making a list of players from Young's era who would definitely be elected ahead of him (adding * to guys who would possibly be excluded due to connections with PEDs).

 

Here is a list of players from his generation that have at least 2x Young's WAR:

 

EDIT: If someone wants to fix these lists so they line up propertly, I would much appreciate it.

Name WAR

Greg Maddux 96.90

Randy Johnson 89.60

Albert Pujols 88.70

Chipper Jones 82.70

Jeff Bagwell 79.90

Ken Griffey 78.60

Frank Thomas 75.90

Mike Mussina 74.60

Pedro Martinez 73.50

Tom Glavine 71.60

Jim Thome 71.40

Derek Jeter 70.40

Jim Edmonds 67.90

Curt Schilling 67.70

Ivan Rodriguez 67.30

Larry Walker 67.30

Manny Ramirez 66.60

Craig Biggio 66.20

Scott Rolen 66.20

Kenny Lofton 65.30

John Smoltz 65.30

Carlos Beltran 60.80

Roy Halladay 60.60

Andruw Jones 60.40

Todd Helton 59.90

Jeff Kent 59.40

Vladimir Guerrero 59.20

Mike Piazza 59.10

Bobby Abreu 58.70

Mariano Rivera 56.30

Ichiro Suzuki 54.50

Michael Young 26.90

 

That list excludes known PED users including Alex Rodriguez, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Rafael Palmeiro, etc.

 

Here is where he ranks amongst players who primarily were shortstops:

 

Name WAR

Alex Rodriguez 104.60

Derek Jeter 70.40

Nomar Garciaparra 42.50

Miguel Tejada 42.50

Omar Vizquel 42.30

Jimmy Rollins 34.40

Rafael Furcal 33.10

Edgar Renteria 31.70

Michael Young 26.90

 

If he puts up 1,000 hits over the next five seasons, he'll probably add ~15 WAR to his total which I guess would put him in the discussion with the shortstops of his generation that aren't named Rodriguez or Jeter (even though he hasn't been a regular SS since 2008)

[JimH5]

Awesome info, Dollarbill13.

 

Whether or not WAR is the "be all and end all" can be debated, but Young is so vastly behind his peers, there's no way that his current production would have him in line for the HOF.

 

To his credit, he does have two things that some voters like: a one-team career and lots of basehits. If he gets to 3000 then the story gets interesting, but for now, he's out.

[brettac1]

I also much prefer guys who had shorter careers but had dominant stretches, and Young isn't really that.