Ryan Braun exonerated, no suspension… Latest: MLB drops Eliezer Alfonzo suspension; case similar to Braun's (part 1)

[adambr2]

Also, I can't stress enough how much respect I have lost for MLB and Selig.

 

Considering a lawsuit to overturn the appeal result? This process is what you agreed to in the CBA. You come off as a bunch of sore losers because the process didn't turn out in your favor this time. Braun should be suing YOU.

[TURBO]

Serious question:

 

Why does major league baseabll have it in for one of their own players?

 

Had Braun been found guilty, wouldn't that be a black mark against MLB?

 

Why on earth can't they leave well enough alone and move on?

[jjfanec]

Wow a pro-Braun article. http://danny-knobler.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/8590096/34964084

 

Jon Heyman weighs in as well

 

@JonHeymanCBS: ryan braun should be considered innocent, not lucky. test holder delay is no technicality

[topper09er]

Found this by doing some google searching:

 

"Testosterone and a related compound, epitestosterone, are eliminated from the body in urine. When an athlete takes anabolic steroids, the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone (the T/E ratio) increases. The International Olympic Committee states that an athlete is guilty of doping if their urine sample shows a T/E ratio above 6.

 

There are problems with this test. For example, British athlete Diane Mohdahl had a 4-year competition ban lifted after demonstrating that a high T/E ratio detected in her urine sample could have been caused by bacterial contamination. Another problem is that some athletes have been shown to have a naturally high T/E ratio, so that the threshold of 6 could be set too low."

 

Source: http://www.science.org.au/nova/055/055key.htm

 

Could the part in bold be what happened with Braun's sample if it was left out at room temperature?

[jjfanec]

Carroll's article if for sale on Amazon for those who want to pay 99 cents for it

 

http://www.amazon.com/Braun-Wins-Appeal-ebook/dp/B007D2IJ3I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330111884&sr=8-1

[jjfanec]

I like Narv-dog's response yesterday per Adam McCalvy

 

"Narveson declined to address what he knew about the specifics of Braun’s defense, but dismissed the idea that a technicality settled the case. He has a particular education on MLB’s testing policies because of his work with the union.

 

“If somebody mishandles a sample, that’s not just a technicality, that’s an error,” Narveson said. “I don’t know all of the details so I don’t want to comment too much. Put it this way: This isn’t the first time we’ve had issues with the people [in charge of testing] in Milwaukee. There have been other issues with timing.”

 

He added: “I would hope it forces stricter operating procedure. I said that even before the Braun situation in Milwaukee. It’s a matter of doing things the right way. It just takes one person who has an ulterior motive to mess things up.”"

 

This article weighs in a little more on Narveson's claims

http://scott-miller.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270335/34975367

[Raw Biz]

I don't know, but there are a lot of stupid people in this world. My guess is that money would probably be the motivating factor in such a scenario. Though my gut still tells me that Braun probably juiced, the fact that someone whose sole job is to collect and deliver (in a timely fashion) a sample to FedEx, and couldn't even complete that simple task does leave reasonable doubt in my mind. I'm looking forward to finding out more about this person

 

How can you still think Braun juiced? This test is the only real "proof" there is and there's so many questions surrounding the validity of it, what happened to it, etc., that it should really be thrown out. Braun's numbers have been consistent his whole career, he's not an idiot, he's been tested numerous times before, etc. You must think Braun did a hell of an acting job today then too but I saw real emotion coming out of him. Even people who doubted his story have changed their minds after listening to him. I just don't see any reason or evidence that Braun was using.

[jjfanec]

I think if you go back to the start of this situation those fans who thought Braun was probably guilty of juicing are mostly still in that camp and those who thought he was or probably was innocent are now firmly in that camp. Seems like the guys questioning Braun still are the same ones who were 3 months ago

[fondybrewfan]

I originally thought Braun was guilty; while I tend to think he is innocent as of today no one can be 100% sure. There will always be that doubt unless the collector comes out says he tainted the sample

[jhart05]

Been only following along slightly from the beginning of the story. Don't watch ESPN. Don't really follow baseball while the college basketball season is going on. My only "news" on the topic comes from reading posts here with people linking to articles and whatnot.

 

I don't believe Braun did anything wrong on purpose. I think it's more likely the test was messed up or his sample was tampered with. I look at "did his body change like Bonds or Sosa?" and "has his stats changed at all?". The answer to both of those questions is "No".

 

All this has done is get me closer and closer every day to dropping MLB completely from my sports watching time. If they do bring up a lawsuit against the Braun decision, that might just be it for me and current MLB. I'll still have my Replay, APBA, and OOTP computer baseball games to relive the good ol' days.

[topper09er]

More on Diane Modahl

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Modahl

 

From wikipedia: "Her career nearly ended in 1994 when she was accused of taking the performance-enhancing drug, testosterone. She was sent home from the Commonwealth Games in Canada.

 

Modahl engaged lawyers to show that the laboratory in Lisbon had stored her urine sample on a table in a room heated at 35 degrees for three days, which caused bacterial degradation. "

 

NO SOURCE FOR THIS.

 

From a story BEFORE her suspension was overturned:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/15/newsid_2559000/2559981.stm

 

"The former 800m Commonwealth gold-medallist, Diane Modahl, has been found guilty of taking a performance enhancing drug"

"It dismissed claims the high level of testosterone in her urine - 42 times greater than normal - was caused by mishandling in the Portuguese laboratory."

 

"But the athlete pledged to prove her innocence.

'I have declared my innocence, I have never taken any banned substance'

'I am horrified at the decision and at the prospect of the nightmare of the last four months continuing,' she said.

 

"Her defence argues there was a degradation of the urine sample taken after the Santo Antonio athletic meeting in Lisbon.

 

They claim the Lisbon laboratory failed to follow good practices, casting real doubt over the result.

 

But the BAF panel chairman, Dr Martyn Lucking, said:"Having heard all the evidence and considered all the documents, the committee was satisfied unanimously beyond all reasonable doubt that a doping offence had been committed by Mrs Modhal."

 

 

Oops, I assume Dr Martin Lucking never issued an apology

[Funketown]

I just don't see any reason or evidence that Braun was using.

 

Dave Cameron had a quick write up on this over at fangraphs, and I pretty much agree with his conclusion. We don't really know if Braun is using, but in the same sense that we don't really know if Roy Halladay, Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, etc. are using. There are just so many issues with this test (and if I once more hear that the only issue was the fact that it was refrigerated for 44 hours instead of 8, I'm going to break something), that it's pretty tough to chastise Braun based on the test alone.

[Schlitz001]

I think if you go back to the start of this situation those fans who thought Braun was probably guilty of juicing are mostly still in that camp and those who thought he was or probably was innocent are now firmly in that camp. Seems like the guys questioning Braun still are the same ones who were 3 months ago

For me to believe Ryan Braun, I wanted more than a sample shipped out late. I wanted a testing flaw or evidence that the sample was spiked or an underlying medical condition or proof of unintentional steroid use. Even before this story was leaked I had strong suspicions that a large number of players were still using and had been using in the past. After reading "Ball Four", Canseco's book and "Game of Shadows", I have a very different view on the innocence of the game. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, I'm just confirming your belief that the public is going to believe what they want and no one is exempt.

[topper09er]

More parallels from the Diane Modahl incident and Braun:

 

"Whether Modahl finally wins or loses, the sport will be thrown back into turmoil...If she wins, the whole drugs procedure will be open to criticism. Officials of the IAAF have made it clear that they want to see a guilty verdict confirmed in order to vindicate their dope testing system."

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/modahl-appeal-adds-to-strain-1592831.html

[brwrsfan]

I originally thought Braun was guilty; while I tend to think he is innocent as of today no one can be 100% sure. There will always be that doubt unless the collector comes out says he tainted the sample

 

I was wondering about this, and I highly doubt this happens. It's possible he doesn't know, maybe he told someone about it and they came over and tampered with it. Or his son knew and he or his buddies messed with it. Very unlikely we ever find out. Really only two things could make it happen:

 

1 - the guilt is just too much and he comes outs and admits it. very unlikely, as he hasn't done so yet and admitting it would likely put him squarely in line for criminal charges

 

2 - there is an investigation into this. i'm not sure who does that with a case like this...fbi? state police? But even if they do this, most likely all the evidence at this point would be gone (if the guy has any brains at all), so really it would be a matter of him cracking under pressure from them or finding witnesses that he told what he did.

 

I honestly don't see either happening, but I think it's only a matter of time before the name is known and strange things can happen once that information is public.

[Thurston Fluff]

I haven't commented in this since it happened. I felt it was only fair to let a supposed confidential process be confidential. I just got done reading Braun's comments. The thing that stuck out to me is how well documented his lack of increase in strength speed or size was. People who roid up do not stay the same size. The whole point is to get bigger, stronger and faster. That alone was enough for me to believe he wasn't knowingly cheating. I thought perhaps he could have taken a tainted supplement which would have made him stupid but not a cheater. Now I don't even think that. I do think some questions to be answered by MLB about the process. At the bare minimum by the person or person's who handled Braun's sample.

[TooLiveBrew]

The most important thing is that it wasnt a technicality. A technicality would be that the sample was late and that was all. If that was all Braun would be facing a 50 game suspension. The facts appear to be that the sample was late and Braun's team was able to demonstrate, consistently, that the extra time sitting around in some guys house would case the sample to break down in a fashion that would case the eleveted ratio. That isnt being reported enough.

 

Excellent point. As we've learned through Lester Munson and Will Carroll's interviews this morning, it's not just that it was sitting around for a while. Braun's attorneys were actually able to replicate the results, which is huge.

Well, isn't a HR technically just a long fly-out that happens to clear the outfield wall? So TECHNICALLY, yeah it's a homer. But isn't it really just an out that the pitcher had robbed from him due to the confinements of the process of playing in a fenced stadium? I guess Chris Narveson really said it best with, "If somebody mishandles a sample, that’s not just a technicality, that’s an error"

 

The 'OMG he's such a cheater!' crap has gotten even more out of hand than I ever thought it could, and frankly I was expecting a lot of it after hearing the decision yesterday.

[topper09er]

More that sounds like the Braun case:

 

"Diane Modahl's appeal against her ban was heard by the Independent Appeal Panel. The same evidence was put forward. By this time, however, the defense could show that the bacterial transformation theory could be replicated under laboratory conditions. On this ground the panel held that the taking allegations could no longer be sustained on the balance of probabilities. The finding was overturned and the ban squashed.

 

http://tinyurl.com/6r3bnn5, from the book Sports Law by Simon Gardiner

[Nader Raider Tim]

Well the end is nearly here to this saga. I just wish the end left a rosier tint on things. The end result is MLB looks horrible for having the breach of protocal. Ryan Braun looks like a cheater who got lucky. Everyone walks away from this far, far worse off than before this started.

 

The fact that the sample was held in a courier fridge over a weekend is inexcusable, plain and simple. You have to assume the worst can happen if anything deviates from protocal. Is it likely that that the courier held the sample to tamper with it? No, absolutely not. Could it have happened? Absolutely yes! There are a thousand different potential motives for the courier to tamper with a sample.

 

Braun is most likely guilty of taking a substance banned by MLB. If he did then he should be suspended for 50 games. I may be a Brewers fan but there needs to be a true zero tolerance policy. With that being said MLB did have a huge breach of protocal, and you do have to assume the worst could happen. It sucks that Braun seemingly was exonerated on a technicality but it was a pretty innexcusable technicallity.

 

Well I guess I'll try and head off to MLB.com and see if I can order a customized #8 Jersey with Cheater replacing Brauns name.

[Schlitz001]

I haven't commented in this since it happened. I felt it was only fair to let an supposed confidential process be confidential. I just got done reading Braun's comments. The thing that stuck out to me is how well documented his lack of increase in strength speed or size was. People who roid up do not stay the same size. The whole point is to get bigger, stronger and faster. That alone was enough for me to believe he wasn't knowingly cheating. I thought perhaps he could have taken a tainted supplement which would have made him stupid but not a cheater. Now I don't even think that. I do think some questions to be answered by MLB about the process. At the bare minimum by the person or person's who handled Braun's sample.

What if he's been juicing since college and just this one time he forgot to take his epitestosterone, leading to elevated T/E levels. That's probably unlikely, but I'm playing devil's advocate here.

[jjfanec]

The fact that the sample was held in a courier fridge over a weekend is inexcusable, plain and simple. .

 

ESPN's legal guy kept saying it was left out on a dresser or something. He didnt even say it was refrigerated. Not sure if it was true or not but that would be crazy

[Brew City Baseball Fan]

I am as big a fan of Ryan Braun that there is. And just as big of a Brewers fan, but I am dissapointed in what came out of the press conference this afternoon.

 

He is basically saying that the sample was tampered with by the admisitrator and I just dont believe that happened.

 

I hate to say it but theat guy from Balco that was interviewed early on and spoke about fast acting steroids might have been right on, considering that the level of testosterone is high but not unthinkable according to those in the know.

 

What's considered "fast acting"? The guy had it from Friday afternoon to Monday afternoon. Then it probably doesn't get to the lab unti Tuesday and I'm guessing they don't test it the same day they get it. Is 4 or 5 days considered "fast acting"?

 

Its fast acting in the nature that it doesnt stay in your system long. Heres Conte's prior comment on it

Were you surprised that Ryan Braun tested positive?:

"No, I was not surprised. In fact, three weeks before that, I was in Vietnam and I was interviewed by somebody from the New York Daily News. It was when the growth hormone testing was being introduced. And I don't think growth hormone is effective as a performance enhancer. At that time, I basically said that what they're doing is using fast-acting testosterone - creams, gels, orals, patches - and they clear so quickly, sometimes in a matter of hours. … They could conceivably, after a game, use testosterone to help with tissue repair and healing and recovery and by the time they'd show up at the park the next day, their PE (progesterone/estradiol) ratio would be normal. I always knew there was this giant loophole that you could drive a Mack truck through."

 

Also, I would guess if a player took a PED one day and peed in a cup the next day it would show up. Isn't "fast acting" really referring to the affects on the person taking the PED not how quickly it enters his system (which I think would be almost immediate). If you inject somthing directly into a sample of urine, I would assume it would show in test.

[topper09er]

Another interesting read that sounds like Braun's case.

 

http://www.open.edu/openlearn/whats-on/ou-on-the-bbc-background-brief-testing-the-best-the-story-so-far

 

"High levels of testosterone were found in her urine and she was suspended from further competitions. She knew she was clean. But until then no athlete accused of drug-taking had succeeded in clearing their name, so her chances looked slim."

 

"...assessment showed there were some serious flaws in the way the analysis had been performed, not least in the way the sample had been stored immediately prior to analysis. The sample certainly contained very high amounts of testosterone - but something didn’t add up because when testosterone is injected or ingested, the body normally produces chemicals called metabolites. These were mysteriously missing from Diane’s sample... Also an extremely high pH level suggested the the urine sample had degraded while in the lab, which raised questions about the storage of the sample."

[GoudaBrew]

More that sounds like the Braun case:

 

"Diane Modahl's appeal against her ban was heard by the Independent Appeal Panel. The same evidence was put forward. By this time, however, the defense could show that the bacterial transformation theory could be replicated under laboratory conditions. On this ground the panel held that the taking allegations could no longer be sustained on the balance of probabilities. The finding was overturned and the ban squashed.

 

http://tinyurl.com/6r3bnn5, from the book Sports Law by Simon Gardiner

 

So basically, if a sample is left out, unrefrigerated for x number of days, a bacterial transformation could spike testosterone in the sample? I would have preferred Braun and his camp gone with this theory over tampering.

[xisxisxis]

Let's assume this was not a false positive and the sample tested in the lab actually had the elevated T:E ratio. Is it possible for a normal sample to change into one with a high T:E rate just by being left out in a non ideal temperature for a day?

 

A high T:E can occur if you have:

 

1) normal levels of E and elevated T;

2) normal levals of T and reduced levels of E; or

3) elevated T and reduced E.

 

In the case of a sample that has not been stored/treated in the correct way you can easily have an issue where the E levels are below normal due to differential degradation. You can also have 1 or 3 if another component of the Urine degrades and one of it's degradation products overlaps at the same place as T. I don't know the exact details of the test they use, but most mass spec types of experiments rely on size of the molecule and landmarks in the testing sample to validate sizing. We know that not all molecules have the same stability. A common cellular component that is highly unstable is RNA. I have seen data to show that the RNA in a cell begins degrading within minutes of drawing a blood sample into a tube. In fact without proper stabilization and protection of the RNA using a highly specific solution, RNA is useless after a few hours at room temperature. Many of the molecules in our body have very short "lifespans" once removed from the body. Many of these are different so it is not clear that you would see T and E degrading at the same time. In addition, sitting in a car for a long drive or other extended periods of time at elevated temperature can change the kinetics in unknown/unexpected ways. Clearly there is a big issue if the sample was not stored/handled correctly. I don't have specifics for this instance, just enough doubt based on knowing that all of these laborious criteria that are in place are there for specific reasons relating to reliability and accuracy.

 

From what I've heard I don't even like the way that the urine samples are collected right now for MLB steroid testing. Ideally the collector should have a large insulated container with ice packs already in place. Within a fixed period of time (10 minutes is more than enough time to code the sample and record what code is associated with what player) the sample is placed in the container after being "drawn". Once all samples are collected the container should be sealed and a pick up with FEDEX arranged. The container should be picked up by FEDEX while still at the teams facility in the presence of the collector, a team representative, and/or a union representative. The only real difficulty would be timing a FEDEX pickup to the sample collection so that several people aren't "guarding" a box for several hours. That shouldn't be so difficult to make this an undue burden on any party.

 

As far as the "collector" goes in Braun's case, a caller on MLB.com pointed out that it may be a woman since the son was brought along. The woman can't observe/verify the collection process, but the son can.