Ryan Braun exonerated, no suspension… Latest: MLB drops Eliezer Alfonzo suspension; case similar to Braun's (part 1)

[GoudaBrew]

I am as big a fan of Ryan Braun that there is. And just as big of a Brewers fan, but I am dissapointed in what came out of the press conference this afternoon.

 

He is basically saying that the sample was tampered with by the admisitrator and I just dont believe that happened.

 

I hate to say it but theat guy from Balco that was interviewed early on and spoke about fast acting steroids might have been right on, considering that the level of testosterone is high but not unthinkable according to those in the know.

 

What about the ol' switcheroo? Either at the administrators home or at the ball park? Was the sample taken and then sealed in front Braun? Or does Braun pee in a cup, screw a lid on it and hand it the administrator and walk away without witnessing it being sealed because testing has become so commonplace?

[dhoffman19]

I'm also getting a little annoyed with people like Lupica, etc. saying that Braun didn't argue tampering with any evidence. Actually, Lupica went further and said Braun isn't claiming tampering.

 

What proof could he possibly have of tampering? That's why the JDA (and criminal courts) have chain of custody rules - because it's impossible for Braun's team to know what happened to the sample while it was sitting around the guy's house for almost two full days.

[topper09er]

While we know that there may be a .001% false positive rate under the SOP.

 

Let's assume this was not a false positive and the sample tested in the lab actually had the elevated T:E ratio. Is it possible for a normal sample to change into one with a high T:E rate just by being left out in a non ideal temperature for a day?

 

I am asking you since you seem to be very knowledgeable on the topic.

[Brew City Baseball Fan]

MLB could have just thrown the handler under the bus, instead they threw Braun. Weird choice if you ask me

 

The didnt throw him under the bus because it is not uncommon for those tests not to go directly to FedEx.

 

The fact that Bud Selig is going after the Brewers this hard most likely tells alot about this story. Dissapointing but true.

[Schlitz001]

Does anyone know if the sample was sealed the entire time after the sample was taken? Could it have been accessed by the person taking to it to FedEx? Is there anyway that guy would have been able to identify the sample as Braun's sample?

[Fear The Chorizo]

If the sample collector had additional materials, he could easily destroy the initial custody seals of a sample, tamper with it, and recreate them to make it look to the lab or MLB that the sample wasn't tampered with. The fact that the sample collector's son served as the chaperone (or witness) to this sample seems like this scenario could be possible.

[topper09er]

 

The didnt throw him under the bus because it is not uncommon for those tests not to go directly to FedEx.

 

 

Source please? this would be a huge point that I have not heard before???

[Patrick425]

I am as big a fan of Ryan Braun that there is. And just as big of a Brewers fan, but I am dissapointed in what came out of the press conference this afternoon.

 

He is basically saying that the sample was tampered with by the admisitrator and I just dont believe that happened.

 

I hate to say it but theat guy from Balco that was interviewed early on and spoke about fast acting steroids might have been right on, considering that the level of testosterone is high but not unthinkable according to those in the know.

 

What about the ol' switcheroo? Either at the administrators home or at the ball park? Was the sample taken and then sealed in front Braun? Or does Braun pee in a cup, screw a lid on it and hand it the administrator and walk away without witnessing it being sealed because testing has become so commonplace?

 

Even if the player did witness the sealing, what's to prevent the handler from taking it home, unsealing it, tampering with it, and then resealing it.

[jjfanec]

MLB could have just thrown the handler under the bus, instead they threw Braun. Weird choice if you ask me

 

The didnt throw him under the bus because it is not uncommon for those tests not to go directly to FedEx.

 

The fact that Bud Selig is going after the Brewers this hard most likely tells alot about this story. Dissapointing but true.

 

What? That was definitely not standard operating procedures with the availability of places to send it out. And Selig is going after the "Brewers" the same way he would anyone because this got leaked and MLB doesnt want to look bad. Why do you think it got leaked to the press Thursday when before Braun could schedule a presser. They wanted to be the first to spin the story

[Schlitz001]

OK. If we say that the sample was tampered with by either of those two couriers, what sort of motive would they have to spike the sample? I realize Braun's party probably didn't have to prove that they had a motive, but to me it doesn't make sense that either of these people would have much to gain by doing this sort of thing.

[Patrick425]

I am as big a fan of Ryan Braun that there is. And just as big of a Brewers fan, but I am dissapointed in what came out of the press conference this afternoon.

 

He is basically saying that the sample was tampered with by the admisitrator and I just dont believe that happened.

 

I hate to say it but theat guy from Balco that was interviewed early on and spoke about fast acting steroids might have been right on, considering that the level of testosterone is high but not unthinkable according to those in the know.

 

What's considered "fast acting"? The guy had it from Friday afternoon to Monday afternoon. Then it probably doesn't get to the lab unti Tuesday and I'm guessing they don't test it the same day they get it. Is 4 or 5 days considered "fast acting"?

 

Also, I would guess if a player took a PED one day and peed in a cup the next day it would show up. Isn't "fast acting" really referring to the affects on the person taking the PED not how quickly it enters his system (which I think would be almost immediate). If you inject somthing directly into a sample of urine, I would assume it would show in test.

[dlk9s]

Even if the player did witness the sealing, what's to prevent the handler from taking it home, unsealing it, tampering with it, and then resealing it.

 

Probably that it would be totally obvious that this was done. Then again, I have no idea how the process works, but I assume that once it's sealed, it's really hard to unseal and re-seal it without it being noticeable.

[dlk9s]

Love the wording in the JSOnline headline: "Ryan Braun vehemently proclaims, explains innocence"

[bball123h]

OK. If we say that the sample was tampered with by either of those two couriers, what sort of motive would they have to spike the sample? I realize Braun's party probably didn't have to prove that they had a motive, but to me it doesn't make sense that either of these people would have much to gain by doing this sort of thing.

 

Money? Fan of an opposing team? Blackmail? Could be tons of reasons.

[adambr2]

I honestly think that the key, for Braun to be cleared in the public eye, is the courier. He (and his son) are the only ones that know.

 

Obviously I want him investigated and prosecuted, but there's a part of me that wonders if there's a potential scenario where he could be offered immunity from prosecution in exchange for full disclosure over exactly what happened to that sample and what, if any, tampering took place. Was it ever left unattended? How was it stored? We need the answers to all of these questions, and if there wasn't any possible tampering, we need scientific explanations of how the sample could have been compromised.

 

To me, this is the only way we'll ever know as much of the truth as possible.

[RockCoCougars]

OK. If we say that the sample was tampered with by either of those two couriers, what sort of motive would they have to spike the sample? I realize Braun's party probably didn't have to prove that they had a motive, but to me it doesn't make sense that either of these people would have much to gain by doing this sort of thing.

 

I don't know, but there are a lot of stupid people in this world. My guess is that money would probably be the motivating factor in such a scenario. Though my gut still tells me that Braun probably juiced, the fact that someone whose sole job is to collect and deliver (in a timely fashion) a sample to FedEx, and couldn't even complete that simple task does leave reasonable doubt in my mind. I'm looking forward to finding out more about this person

[Fear The Chorizo]

The "seals" on these sample containers and shipping packages are often adhesive labels that cover both the cap and container of the sample (or the lid and body of the cooler), so that it's impossible to open the sample without destroying the label. People who are tested typically have to write their initials or signature on these seals along with the collector to verify that the sample in the container is theirs.

 

It wouldn't be the most difficult thing in the world for new seals to be forged/replicated by someone after tampering with a sample. The person being tested typically would also sign a form or possibly the chain of custody that goes with the sample containers - that's something that wouldn't have to be tampered with at all.

[FidoMcCokefiend]

As for the collector having a motive to tamper with this...

 

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

[Dragonbait]

I like Narv-dog's response yesterday per Adam McCalvy

 

"Narveson declined to address what he knew about the specifics of Braun’s defense, but dismissed the idea that a technicality settled the case. He has a particular education on MLB’s testing policies because of his work with the union.

 

“If somebody mishandles a sample, that’s not just a technicality, that’s an error,” Narveson said. “I don’t know all of the details so I don’t want to comment too much. Put it this way: This isn’t the first time we’ve had issues with the people [in charge of testing] in Milwaukee. There have been other issues with timing.”

 

He added: “I would hope it forces stricter operating procedure. I said that even before the Braun situation in Milwaukee. It’s a matter of doing things the right way. It just takes one person who has an ulterior motive to mess things up.”"

[Patrick425]

The "seals" on these sample containers and shipping packages are often adhesive labels that cover both the cap and container of the sample (or the lid and body of the cooler), so that it's impossible to open the sample without destroying the label. People who are tested typically have to write their initials or signature on these seals along with the collector to verify that the sample in the container is theirs.

 

It wouldn't be the most difficult thing in the world for new seals to be forged/replicated by someone after tampering with a sample. The person being tested typically would also sign a form or possibly the chain of custody that goes with the sample containers - that's something that wouldn't have to be tampered with at all.

 

It would make sense that the handler would only be provided with one "seal" for each sample and that it would be impossible to "unseal" it without it being evident. However, I doubt the players initial the seal since, as Braun stated, the sample is supposed to be completely annonymous when it arrives at the lab.

[fondybrewfan]

Like Braun indicated earlier they asked medical professionals how easy it would be to tamper with a smaple and they were told very easy if the person was motivated. If this guy really wanted to mess with the sample he could have done it. How is anybody's guess at this point but professionals said that it could be done.

[dhoffman19]

 

The didnt throw him under the bus because it is not uncommon for those tests not to go directly to FedEx.

 

 

Source please? this would be a huge point that I have not heard before???

 

 

There is no "source" for that, really. There was a line in one of the news reports (maybe ESPN's) that collectors have taken samples to their homes before - though I haven't seen it attributed to a source. It's simply been repeated by other news sources - again, without sourcing. So now people are getting the idea that this happens all the time.

 

Even if it has happened before, it certainly shouldn't under the JDA.

[jimmyjeromehardy7]

That's why the JDA (and criminal courts) have chain of custody rules - because it's impossible for Braun's team to know what happened to the sample while it was sitting around the guy's house for almost two full days.

 

Maybe the players should ride with the collector to Montreal to drop it off at the lab.

[trwi7]

ESPN (Outside the Lines specifically) is still saying Braun got off on a technicality based on chain of custody.

[adambr2]

Even if the player did witness the sealing, what's to prevent the handler from taking it home, unsealing it, tampering with it, and then resealing it.

 

Probably that it would be totally obvious that this was done. Then again, I have no idea how the process works, but I assume that once it's sealed, it's really hard to unseal and re-seal it without it being noticeable.

 

I can't speak for how it is done in MLB, but I administered urinalysis tests in the military. There's a red strip put over the bottle called "tamper-evident tape", but it really proves/disproves nothing. They can be effective against someone who doesn't know what they're doing, but they can be beaten, and I am assuming a courier would be a person who would know how.

 

For the ones we used at least, it was difficult, but possible, to remove one end of the tape to expose the cap, and then re-apply the tape. It's possible that minimal evidence or tearing in the tape might exist, but we also don't know how vigilant the testers in Montreal are inspecting each sample for tampering or if they get complacement in doing so.