Ryan Braun exonerated, no suspension… Latest: MLB drops Eliezer Alfonzo suspension; case similar to Braun's (part 1)

[jjfanec]

I see Olney has a post up on espn insider but I dont have insider. I am wondering what he said.

[trwi7]

Did anyone listen to the Dan Patrick show today? Is it Dan Patrick saying this? Does he have a guest on saying this? What is the source?

 

I didn't listen but I think Patrick himself would be credible enough. He was the one who came out early and said he would not be shocked if Braun was exonerated based on what he had heard.

[Patrick425]

ESPN is saying MLB could pursue action in federal court. MLB is just looking horrible right now.

 

I really doubt this happens.

 

As someone who works in commercial credit and collections and has to occasionally decide whether or not to file suit to collect, let me point out that this is a common tactic of a party that expects to be sued themselves. Find some reason to sue yourself in hope the party that actually has a case (in this instance Braun) will agree not to sue if you don't either.

 

MLB is also calculating here that it has deeper pockets than Braun and that if it can force Braun into ever increasing fees for lawyers, he will not pursue litigation.

 

Fortunately for Braun, he's got friends with plenty of resources too (ie. Rodgers).

 

Yeah, part of me was speculating that Braun may have made it clear that he plans further legal action to clear his name and I'm wondering if that is the reason for MLB harsh reaction to this decision.

[chadomac]

This has been said in more words already, but all of this action by MLB post-decision is just to make itself look like it's still "hard on steroids", but it's very damaging to Braun as far as clearing his name.

[jjfanec]

SportsNation has a poll on what people think about Braun's guilt/innocence. I am almost surprised more people are not just saying he is guilty. http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/poll/conversation/_/id/133911

 

Currently the numbers are at

36% convinced he used PED

50% not sure if he did

15% sure he did not use PED

[Invader3K]

Dan Patrick is talking about this again right now if people are interested. Just mentioned the tidbit about the Cubs fan again.

[GoudaBrew]

At the risk of blowing my own horn, I called this aftermath scenario way on the night the story first broke. I'm not a psychic, I've just seen it done before.

 

viewtopic.php?p=757045#p757045

 

A "technicality", as it is simple-mindedly and misleadling characterized, is the only real avenue open for athletes to win these cases. It's virtually impossible to prove "innocence" in these things, even when it's the truth. Any journalist who does the minimum amount of homework on this subject knows this to be the truth. One can only conclude that majority journalists covering the case have either not done their homework or are not interested in conveying these facts to a broader audience.

 

The first alternative makes them miserable journalists. The second alternative makes them miserable human beings. It appears that Will Carroll at least falls into neither category. Tom H has been very fair-minded as well, hometown guy or not. I'm not going to kill all the coverage on this case because to a certain extent the subject matter is simply too much to cover in the space that most writers have available to do justice to the story. What I cannot abide is the cynicism and rush to judgment which was all too prevalent beginning way back on that first night in December. Cheating athletes bear most of the burden for creating such a toxic atmosphere, but the role of the testers, aided and abetted by a much too cynical and "scoop"-oriented media, should not be undersold.

 

Wow. How prescient! Thanks for linking back to your initial thoughts in December. The simple minded talking heads in the media are going to get in the way of Braun's public exoneration.

 

Basically, in their minds, arguing a testing technicality is Braun admitting guilt, but getting off because MLB didn’t follow the proper rules. Braun’s legal team could have beat the drum that “my client has never taken a banned substance”, but ultimately all MLB has to say is “you’re responsible for what is in your body”. Boom – guilty. Their best defense was to argue the testing process and it turns out they were right to do so.

 

Also, D.P. said Braun took a lie detector test and passed.

[KCBrewerfan34]

MLB should pursue this matter in Federal Court against the courier company for negligence, the Braun ship has sailed my friend.

 

 

Das isn't a putz, MLB would have a long road to hoe it would seem to get this thing overturned. Also wouldn't Federal Court details be more public????

[GoudaBrew]

Someone who works at one of these labs called into D.P. He said once it is realized that the chain of custody is broken, that sample has to be thrown out and the process needs to be re-started.

[gregmag]

SportsNation has a poll on what people think about Braun's guilt/innocence. I am almost surprised more people are not just saying he is guilty. http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/poll/conversation/_/id/133911

 

Currently the numbers are at

36% convinced he used PED

50% not sure if he did

15% sure he did not use PED

 

This is so frustrating. If somebody asked me that question, I would have to say "not sure," because it's a factual question about which I have no direct evidence. The thing is, I would have to answer the same way if you asked me the same question about any other human being, for exactly the same reason.

 

The problem for Braun is that the question is being asked about him. I'm not saying SportsNation shouldn't do their survey; it's news, and that's what they do. But at a fundamental level it's unfair to Braun.

[burnzy24]

Here is a link to an audio interview of Will Carroll discussing Braun's appeal. I can't listen to it right now, can someone please listen to it and see if it contains any new info.

 

http://audio.weei.com/a/52238582/will-carroll-si-com-on-ryan-braun-s-50-game-suspension-being-overturned.htm?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[jjfanec]

I have no clue what he says but here is a link of Will Carroll being interviewed this morning

 

http://audio.weei.com/a/52238582/will-carroll-si-com-on-ryan-braun-s-50-game-suspension-being-overturned.htm?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

Notes from after I listened

 

Much more than chain of custody.

Showed what the chain of custody caused. They were able to replicate results. Proved it was bad at the point it was tested.

Much more than 3 times the level of testosterone the first time and they were able to get those same results when the defense team replicated the results

Will Carroll did not voice his overall opinion of guilt or innocence. He was surprised when Braun was exonerated

This is a unique situation. Guys like Manny wont be able to use the Braun situation to win appeals

The lab should not have accepted it because of the delay

Carroll did not know if there were others tested. The espn legal expert said there were two other samples if I remember correctly

The whole system worked. Shows the appeal process works.

It wasnt just that there was a 48 delay it was how the sample was treated over those 48 hours

MLB cannot take this to federal court. There is no big next step for MLB

Had this not leaked we would have never known.

Not a 100% anyone is clean when asked if he was 100% sure Braun was clean

We have to accept the results on Ryan Braun because he won his appeal

MLB is afraid of losing momentum in testing process. Vehement was a poor choice of words. They made it tougher on Braun to regain his standing and reputation

[brewmann04]

Very happy about this ending and MLB should be ashamed for letting this out in the First place.

I am glad ESPN and MLB looks foolish in this outcome

[pebadger]

There are a very limited number of ways in which a party to an arbitration can challenge an arbitration award in court. There are both statutory (for example, the Federal Arbitration Act) and any number of common law grounds for making an argument along those lines.

 

The bottom line is that no matter what theory MLB would pursue in taking such a case to court, they would have an very high standard to meet to even get beyond the summary judgment stage of a proceeding. They would most likely have to show that the decision made as it was due to one of the folowing factors:

 

1) that the system itself is so unconscionable that it was impossible for MLB to get a fair result;

2) that one or more of the arbitrators acted with actual bias in the case to MLB's injuy;

3) that the arbitrators acted outside the scope of their authority;

4) that the result was rendered on the basis of non-evidentary statements;

5) that the arbitrators refused to hear MLB's evidence without cause;

6) that the arbitrators acted in disregard of the law or the rules of the arbitration.

 

If you've been paying attention at all to how this system actually operates, you know that for MLB to make these argument, other than trying to prove that the deciding vote by Mr Das was "fixed", is almost laughable. Numerous athletes have tried to take on this system, and/or their specific adverse decisions, in the courts. They have gotten nowhere, because the courts simply aren't going to go mucking around inside these arbitrations without a boatload of good reasons to do so.

 

MLB is being a petulant child, just like every other testing organization that loses one of these cases. Going to court on their part would be little more than a hopeful PR expedition that has the added "benefit" of being extremely punitive to Ryan Bruan, and possibly punitive to Mr. Das. I'm guessing MLB is already taking steps to insure that Mr Das never works one of their drug arbitrations again.

[burnzy24]

MLB is being a petulant child, just like every other testing organization that loses one of these cases. Going to court on their part would be little more than a hopeful PR expedition that has the added "benefit" of being extremely punitive to Ryan Bruan, and possibly punitive to Mr. Das. I'm guessing MLB is already taking steps to insure that Mr Das never works one of their drug arbitrations again.

 

 

In other words, as long as Mr. Das sides with MLB (which he has the past 13 times) he is doing a great job, if not, lets get rid of him for someone who will. This says all you need to know about the drug testing policy.

[Teatoe993]

This gonna make for a great '30 For 30'. Although the thought of ESPN making that documentary doesn't seem like the best idea. Maybe Ken Burns can put together an 11th inning of Baseball someday.

[pebadger]

Let's just say there is a reason these cases almost always end up 2-1 in the tester's favor. There are an abundance of 3-0 decisions, too. The number of THOSE decisions that favor the athlete is microscopic.

[jjfanec]

I really encourage people to listen to the Carroll interview linked above. He expands on his tweets and gives good reason why it was more than just a technicality.

[prophet]

Does anyone know when Braun is going to talk to the press? And if so, is it going to be aired anywhere? His press conference is the only thing I'm interested in, in regards to this story anymore. ESPN is a pathetic joke.

[jjfanec]

Does anyone know when Braun is going to talk to the press? And if so, is it going to be aired anywhere? His press conference is the only thing I'm interested in, in regards to this story anymore. ESPN is a pathetic joke.

 

12 PM Central time. It will be on espn and espn.com. I am sure mlb will have it as well

[trwi7]

Noon Central will be on Fox 6, 620 WTMJ, I'm guessing 1250 and 540 will have it and brewers.com will be streaming it.

[Patrick425]

Does anyone know when Braun is going to talk to the press? And if so, is it going to be aired anywhere? His press conference is the only thing I'm interested in, in regards to this story anymore. ESPN is a pathetic joke.

 

Noon...sure it will air on all the local Milwaukee stations as well as possibly ESPN and MLB network. Also, will be able to stream on WTMJ's web site or ESPN.

[xisxisxis]

There are a very limited number of ways in which a party to an arbitration can challenge an arbitration award in court. There are both statutory (for example, the Federal Arbitration Act) and any number of common law grounds for making an argument along those lines.

 

and, unfortunately, the law is vague enough that someone with deap pockets who wants to "fight on" can find lawyers who can make enough of a case out of anything that this will wind it's way through the courts. unfortunately our legal system is slow.

 

At this point i want to hear what Attanasio has to say. is he going to side with his country club friends against an uppity employee or does he defend his employee against his friends. If we do ever hear from him He'll probably try to stear a middle course. depending how this proceeds that will either piss off both sides or seem the mediator. I'd defend my employee, but i'm not a member of the country club so i don't have that pressure.

[prophet]

Thanks everyone. I'll try to watch it on Fox 6 if they have it then. I can't watch ESPN. I've decided to only watch ESPN when they actually have sporting events on like college basketball. Everything else they have is terrible.

[jjfanec]

Carroll made a comment that if MLB really did take this to court (he said there was no way they would) that MLB would be forced to give full disclosure of their whole process. That would lead to other issues being brought up which would make it way easier for other players to appeal as well. he made it sound like this is why they wouldn't take it to court