Ryan Braun exonerated, no suspension… Latest: MLB drops Eliezer Alfonzo suspension; case similar to Braun's (part 1)

[Raw Biz]

Harold Reynolds keeps calling this a steroid controversy. I don't think anyone really knows what exactly caused his T:E spike but yet he keeps calling it steroids. Just irresponsible and stupid.

[thebruce44]

Who are B&B on AM670?

 

Boers and Bernstein. Usually pretty funny. Second on Chicago radio only to Tom Waddle IMO, mostly because he is really objective which gets him into trouble with a lot of the Chicago fans at times.

[valpocrewsader]

"so I took the sample to my home".

 

Makes me think of Seinfeld. "Was that wrong? Should I not have done that? I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to plead ignorance, because if I had known that sort of thing was frowned upon..."

[homer]

Who are B&B on AM670?

 

Boers and Bernstein. Usually pretty funny. Second on Chicago radio only to Tom Waddle IMO, mostly because he is really objective which gets him into trouble with a lot of the Chicago fans at times.

 

 

Oh yeah. Duh. They're hilarious but super cynical. Not surprised they're PO'd

[Raw Biz]

As happy as I am that Braun isn't going to be suspended (and I was probably 70-30 sure that he would win), it would have been interesting to see how the team played without him. Everybody is talking about how the season would have been lost but I don't think so. Like it's been discussed so much, he's only one player and only contributes so much (i.e. WAR). But most reporters and the general fan don't think in those terms.

[jjfanec]

Kind of glad I dont have espn at a moment like this. I think it would just anger me as they try to spin this

[BadgerFan]

Boers and Bernstein just like to stir the pot. And Bernstein in particular won't take calls from anyone who disagrees with him.

[xisxisxis]

At some point in this process MLB had to become aware of the problem with chain of custody, possibly from day 1, and yet they decided that they had to press the case anyway. I have little doubt that they though that they would win anyway. What does that tell you about the general integrity of the system?

 

The chain of custody, I think, is the minor issue. I think MLB is more concerned that an impression gets out that the results of the test can be effected by a slight delay in getting the sample to the testing lab. That leads to questioning what happens if FEDEX loses a package for a couple of days. While there isn't a chain of custody issue if they still have the package, there is definitely an issue with the handling of the package that could lead to a compromised sample. Any irregularity in the process can now be questioned and other players who test positive have ways of raising doubt about the accuracy of a test. As I said earlier, it would be better for MLB to come to agreement on guidelines of how long a sample can be "in transit" to the testing agency before it is considered compromised. That would give them some cover in the future so that similar challenges can't be used. If they just stick their heads in the sand and claim Braun got off on a technicality they are simply laying the groundwork for additional challenges in the future.

[burnzy24]

Thanks for mentioning this. This case should have been thrown out the second they heard "so I took the sample to my home".

 

 

Exactly. I never could have imagined just how bad MLB looks coming out of this, they have no leg to stand on. It's embarrassing that they even took it beyond the initial stages considering that a chain of custody issue like the one being reported is about as big a red flag as you can get along with how much Braun, or any player for that matter, stood to lose over even being suspected as a doper. If Bud really had any hand in this we would never have even heard about this matter at all.

[theavrock]

At some point in this process MLB had to become aware of the problem with chain of custody, possibly from day 1, and yet they decided that they had to press the case anyway. I have little doubt that they though that they would win anyway. What does that tell you about the general integrity of the system?

 

The chain of custody, I think, is the minor issue. I think MLB is more concerned that an impression gets out that the results of the test can be effected by a slight delay in getting the sample to the testing lab. That leads to questioning what happens if FEDEX loses a package for a couple of days. While there isn't a chain of custody issue if they still have the package, there is definitely an issue with the handling of the package that could lead to a compromised sample. Any irregularity in the process can now be questioned and other players who test positive have ways of raising doubt about the accuracy of a test. As I said earlier, it would be better for MLB to come to agreement on guidelines of how long a sample can be "in transit" to the testing agency before it is considered compromised. That would give them some cover in the future so that similar challenges can't be used. If they just stick their heads in the sand and claim Braun got off on a technicality they are simply laying the groundwork for additional challenges in the future.

 

Agreed. They need to say this was a major break in protocol and they will use it as a learning experience or whatever. Trying to stand by it and say we did everything right leaves them wide open to attack.

[brewerjamie15]

Kinda (ok, very) disappointed in the MLB for their remarks. I believe they should have just shut the heck up and taken what was deemed. I'd like to see the MLB spend as much time on fixing what happened to Braun or a better testing system as they did vilifying Barry Bonds.

Once it was known (if this is true) there was a violation of MLB's rules by the representatives of the MLB the test should have been null and void.

Who knows what other tidbits will come from this. I'm awaiting Braun's statement from his people. I'd have to guess he takes a higher road than the road the MLB appears to have traveled.

[AZBrewCrew]

Now I'm even more excited to head to Maryvale on Saturday for the team workouts!

[brewerjamie15]

HA! surprise!! You guys haven't seen me for a while. It just takes one man's faulty urine submission to bring me out of hiding.

[pebadger]

At some point in this process MLB had to become aware of the problem with chain of custody, possibly from day 1, and yet they decided that they had to press the case anyway. I have little doubt that they though that they would win anyway. What does that tell you about the general integrity of the system?

 

The chain of custody, I think, is the minor issue. I think MLB is more concerned that an impression gets out that the results of the test can be effected by a slight delay in getting the sample to the testing lab. That leads to questioning what happens if FEDEX loses a package for a couple of days. While there isn't a chain of custody issue if they still have the package, there is definitely an issue with the handling of the package that could lead to a compromised sample. Any irregularity in the process can now be questioned and other players who test positive have ways of raising doubt about the accuracy of a test. As I said earlier, it would be better for MLB to come to agreement on guidelines of how long a sample can be "in transit" to the testing agency before it is considered compromised. That would give them some cover in the future so that similar challenges can't be used. If they just stick their heads in the sand and claim Braun got off on a technicality they are simply laying the groundwork for additional challenges in the future.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. There is a better way to do this, for everyone involved. The basic problem with the system, in my opinion, is that the "prosecutors" have become too zealous and the "defendants" who are actually guilty (which is most of them) have made such stupid arguments in most cases that they have made all who come after them look bad, no matter whether they are guilty or not. Then you have cases like this that in the end leave room for everyone to look bad. IT would be so simple to fix if people could sit down and be reasonable, but thisis such a touchy and political topic that it's hard for people to do that, especially in a collective bargaining atmosphere.

[TheBwaz]

I'm in the chain of custody camp. The evidence was outside of the mutually agreed upon chain of control, it is rubbish.

 

That said, I wonder what ambiet conditions in a residential refrigerator could mess with a urine sample. I had some lost Indian food go bad and foul my BRITA filter.

[jjfanec]

People on espn boards are saying Braun just fought that the technicality but the point is how was he actually supposed to argue the test was contaminated? What would that defense look like? He fought what he could and won

[pebadger]

If you take warming leftovers off the stove, transfer them to tupperware and then shove them in the fridge, still hot/warm next to a sample, things can happen to the sample. Not saying that happened, but it's just one of many things that COULD, and nobody would ever know.

 

The sample handling/custody rules are there for a very simple reason: if they weren't there isn't a single neutral, scientifically-minded observer who could vouch for the results of the subusequent tests of this type on that sample.

[pebadger]

People on espn boards are saying Braun just fought that the technicality but the point is how was he actually supposed to argue the test was contaminated? What would that defense look like? He fought what he could and won

 

Right. It's like complaining that Indiana Jones cheated when he shot the swordsman on the streets of Cairo.

[cvollbrecht]

People on espn boards are saying Braun just fought that the technicality but the point is how was he actually supposed to argue the test was contaminated? What would that defense look like? He fought what he could and won

 

Exactly. He argued only what he could prove. There was no way to prove that there was tampering with the sample or that it was a faulty test. That is why nobody had ever won an appeal before. He was able to prove that the MLB testing process did not follow protocol in handling his sample. Smart move by him.

[Cyanogen5]

Kinda (ok, very) disappointed in the MLB for their remarks. I believe they should have just shut the heck up and taken what was deemed. I'd like to see the MLB spend as much time on fixing what happened to Braun or a better testing system as they did vilifying Barry Bonds.

Once it was known (if this is true) there was a violation of MLB's rules by the representatives of the MLB the test should have been null and void.

Who knows what other tidbits will come from this. I'm awaiting Braun's statement from his people. I'd have to guess he takes a higher road than the road the MLB appears to have traveled.

 

Eric Byrnes seriously just threw out there...with no proof whatsoever except saying that...a little birdy said that probably... the failed test and suspension was leaked by Ryan Brauns camp. MLB Network is absolutely no better than ESPN...I can't watch either of these garbage stations. I am so tired of these talking heads throwing out anything they want to say.

[Cyanogen5]

I'm in the chain of custody camp. The evidence was outside of the mutually agreed upon chain of control, it is rubbish.

 

That said, I wonder what ambiet conditions in a residential refrigerator could mess with a urine sample. I had some lost Indian food go bad and foul my BRITA filter.

 

The point is that nobody knows. It could have been purpously tampered with. The original sample could have been accidentally used in a child science project so a new sample was generated by the guy, it could have been sitting too close to left over Taco Bell. I agree with the guy who said that those rules exist for a reason. When you couple the chain of custody issues (which in my mind is enough to rule out the test) with the insanely high reading, and reasonable person has to suspect that something is wrong.

 

When the Roger Clemens "evidence" came out (guilty or not, this is still true)...you know that an ex cop had needles sitting in a can for years and suddenly brought them forth as evidence...I was shocked that people weren't dismissing it due to chain of custody issues.

[Patrick425]

Eric Byrnes said he thinks someone in Ryan Braun's camp was the first to leak the news of a positive test....what?

 

That's what a couple posters here said as well. I think it was Jeffy and someone else. Except it makes no sense whatsoever. If he didnt leak the news none of this ever makes the news and he is as clean as can be in the public eye. NONE of this would be public knowledge. He has zero to gain by leaking the info. I guess someone from his camp could have mistakenly done it but it is much more likely it came from MLB.

 

I actually brought this up as well. I (and others) are not suggesting that Bruan PURPOSELY leaked the information. It could have been a clerk in Braun's attorney's office. Maybe Braun called another player or freind to tell them about it and he told his wife and so on. Maybe it was a third party. Someone from the independant testing lab. A lot of people want think that only 2 or 3 people could have had knowledge of this. As soon as Braun appeals then there are attornys involved on both sides and various people within those attorney's offices. The point is that it can't just be assumed that it was MLB that leaked this.

[ilovebeer]

New info from TOM, according to Brauns side there is more to it than a chain of effidense, there is a chance that it is not even Brauns unine sample.

[fondybrewfan]

I am hoping something more comes out other than this dude just kept in his fridge for a couple days. Not that Braun should have to prove his innocence after winning his appeal but I am sure many outside of WI remain very skeptical including writers who have a vote for MVPs; HOF, ETC

[fondybrewfan]

New info from TOM, according to Brauns side there is more to it than a chain of effidense, there is a chance that it is not even Brauns unine sample.

 

I imagine it not being Braun's actual pee could pose a problem. No idea how that could happen though