Prince Fielder signs with Tigers - 9yrs/$214 million

[Ennder]

I do have a problem with Ennder's point, though. Maybe this move doesn't improve the Tigers much over last year, but the more important measure of what Detroit has gained seems to be where they would be this year with Fielder vs. where they would be without him. If we aren't looking at Fielder vs. V-Mart but rather Fielder vs. replacement level 1b, or whatever the best available alternative is at this point, the gain may be much greater. Even if Fielder adds three wins to the projection (based on whatever system or logic one wants to use), the difference between an 84-win projection and an 87-win projection is massive, if you're talking about the likelihood of contending in the AL Central. On that basis, it may end up being a pretty smart $20 million outlay.

 

I certainly agree. I was more talking about the people that seem to think that this somehow vaults the Tigers way up from where they were last season. The team they are putting on the field to start 2012 isn't really much better than the one they ended 2011 with mostly because of the huge hit they already took with the VMart injury.

 

I think people are probably overstating Fielder's final seasons being a disaster. It is always a huge risk to sign any player to 9 years but Fielder is more athletic than most 'big guys'. The fact he is short in some ways gives him an advantage since it tends to be easier on your knees and back which is where the 'big guys' tend to wear down most often. Finally he doesn't have the typical old player skills either because you generally think of a higher K rate than he has shown, he can produce without the HR. Elite players tend to age differently anyway, they peak younger and longer. Finally he is 27 years old which means the deal is only through age 36 which is a rarity for such a long deal. He most likely will slip some as he approaches his mid 30s but I just don't see his bat collapsing and if he moves to DH in the next few years that will only help his health.

 

As for this showing the evils of baseball. If you have a team full of good young players in the NFL you can't keep them all either. We could even afford to pay for Fielder if we had wanted to, the big issue is the guaranteed contracts meaning we can't just cut him if he starts to suck like in the NFL. The salary cap works in the NFL because of the structure of the league, it just isn't appropriate for baseball. But you are kidding yourself if you are trying to say that in the NFL this would never happen, players leave NFL teams constantly because the teams can't afford them.

[CheezWizHed]

as Pujols is at least 5 years older, and possibly 7-8.

 

I wonder what Albert's real name is.... http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/wink.gif

[stringcheese]

I think it is Alberta

[Raw Biz]

I don't think the Tigers will "regret" the last 4 or so years because Prince will suddenly break down. He definitely is more athletic than most big guys and he could always DH. I just don't think it's a good idea for anyone to be paid $24+ million/year in their mid-30s. Then again, I'm always thinking in terms of the Brewers market and maybe Detroit can manage it.

[umphrey]

In the short run the Tigers payed like $20M to gain 1 win for 2012 because Fielder is a marginal upgrade over VMart at best. They are still a 87 win or so team who can miss the playoffs if things go poorly for them. 2013 this makes them a monster though assuming VMart is healthy.

They added a lot more than 1 Win with Prince Fielder in that lineup. I don't care what WAR says, or any other advanced Metric, that's a good team. WAR is meant to compare players and measure their performances, I don't know a whole lot of people who literally take WAR and translate it literally into actual wins and losses.

 

Prince and Cabrera in the middle of that order is devastating, and they already had a great lineup, and they're still trying to acquire Garza for Turner+ whomever. Verlander/Fister/Garza/Porcello and that lineup is as close to a lock to win a division as any team you're going to see going into next year IMO.

Well I think the point was VMart is a pretty good hitter too. Same value for defense and baserunning (none). If you look at it as a trade of VMart for Prince they gain a little bit, but not that much. Prince is on a 9 year deal though, not a 1 year replacement plan for VMart, so I suppose it doesn't make sense to look at it in those terms. If the Tigers decided "VMart is hurt, must Prince Fielder for 9 years" they are seriously screwed up.

[Roderick]

I just don't think it's a good idea for anyone to be paid $24+ million/year in their mid-30s. Then again, I'm always thinking in terms of the Brewers market and maybe Detroit can manage it.

Well assuming the inflation rate of baseball salaries is about 6% ("only" 2.7% last year, but way more in prior years), in 9 years that $24M will feel like $15M of 2012 baseball salary.

[monty57]

In the short run the Tigers payed like $20M to gain 1 win for 2012 because Fielder is a marginal upgrade over VMart at best. They are still a 87 win or so team who can miss the playoffs if things go poorly for them. 2013 this makes them a monster though assuming VMart is healthy.

They added a lot more than 1 Win with Prince Fielder in that lineup. I don't care what WAR says, or any other advanced Metric, that's a good team. WAR is meant to compare players and measure their performances, I don't know a whole lot of people who literally take WAR and translate it literally into actual wins and losses.

 

Prince and Cabrera in the middle of that order is devastating, and they already had a great lineup, and they're still trying to acquire Garza for Turner+ whomever. Verlander/Fister/Garza/Porcello and that lineup is as close to a lock to win a division as any team you're going to see going into next year IMO.

Well I think the point was VMart is a pretty good hitter too. Same value for defense and baserunning (none). If you look at it as a trade of VMart for Prince they gain a little bit, but not that much. Prince is on a 9 year deal though, not a 1 year replacement plan for VMart, so I suppose it doesn't make sense to look at it in those terms. If the Tigers decided "VMart is hurt, must Prince Fielder for 9 years" they are seriously screwed up.

If they're seriously going to play Cabrera at 3B, then offensively it's really Prince vs the .548 OPS Brandon Inge put up last season for the Tigers, minus the difference between Victor Martinez and whomever they fill in at DH. Of course, they'll essentially have two DH's they are playing in the field at 1B & 3B, while someone like Delmon Young, who can actually play the field will man DH. They'll have a good offense and good pitching, and are certainly the favorites to win the AL Central. If Cabrera can man 3B, then they won't have a problem when Martinez returns. If he can't and he & Fielder split time at 1B/DH, then they'll probably have to look at trading someone prior to the 2013 season.

 

[Raw Biz]

I just don't think it's a good idea for anyone to be paid $24+ million/year in their mid-30s. Then again, I'm always thinking in terms of the Brewers market and maybe Detroit can manage it.

Well assuming the inflation rate of baseball salaries is about 6% ("only" 2.7% last year, but way more in prior years), in 9 years that $24M will feel like $15M of 2012 baseball salary.

I'm not sure how the money works out but I'm betting it isn't evenly spread out. He will probably be closer to $30 mil/yr in those last couple of seasons but I get your point.

[monty57]

On a semirelated note, this news made me google Cecil Fielder. My god, has daddy gotten big.

http://joshfrancis50.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/tig.jpg

 

That looks like the image that probably went through the minds of most GM's when Boras said Fielder wanted a 10-year deal :-)

 

[Thurston Fluff]

Though I knew it was coming and thought it was not wise to resign him it still saddened me when I heard he officially signed with another team. Another thing I wonder about is why does anyone say they are surprised by where players go anymore? Since the A-Rod to Texas deal there have been more surprise destinations than not. I also question whether GM's around the league are ever as surprised about where a player lands as they say they are.

[bigredrobbo]

as Pujols is at least 5 years older, and possibly 7-8.

 

I wonder what Albert's real name is.... http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/wink.gif

Ya gotta believe that's his real name. Who'd choose Poo Holes as a fake one?

[TooLiveBrew]

They also said it about Soriano [and Lee]

Neither Carlos Lee nor Alfonso Soriano in their primes were nearly the caliber of hitter that Fielder is, though. Soriano's pre-FA career OPS was .836, Lee's .835, & you can make the argument both guys played in a higher offensive environment than Prince (.929 OPS) has during his career so far. And it's not just stats; I think you'd struggle to find a scout that wouldn't pick Fielder's swing well ahead of Soriano's or Lee's (during their primes of course).

I don't disagree that the Tigers will wind up with a super-expensive & declined Fielder by 2016-'17 or maybe even earlier, but he's not your typical candidate in terms of projecting production. Look at a bigger guy like Tony Gwynn, who was a complete freak talent (a la Prince) -- he played at a high level well into his late 30s, and could basically still hit even in his 40s. Gwynn's durability was the problem as he aged, but Prince won't be playing RF... or maybe even at all on defense before long. While Prince-Gwynn that may be an extreme comparison, I think it's much more accurate in this case than using guys like Soriano or El Caballo who, while good hitters, don't really compare well to Prince.

[tomwopat]

Hoping that Prince still has some gas left in the tank at the end of this deal so he could round out his career back in Milwaukee, but that seems unlikely.

[umphrey]

Hoping that Prince still has some gas left in the tank at the end of this deal so he could round out his career back in Milwaukee, but that seems unlikely.

 

 

Maybe if we move to the AL. He is a DH now, he will be a FA at 36 years old.

[chadomac]

That photo looks nothing like Cecil. Wonder where they got that from.

[jjkoestler]

That photo looks nothing like Cecil. Wonder where they got that from.

The Biggest Loser

[SeriesFinale]

In a solemn ceremony, I nested my Prince nesting doll today, as I had JJ Hardy and Bill Hall before him.

 

Thankfully Rickie was the biggest in my set

[Invader3K]

 

A bit surreal to see him in another uniform, but good for him. Looks like he kept himself in real good shape over the winter.

[markedman5]

How much will Tiger Stadium hurt Prince's production? Isn't it a tough park for lefties or even hitters in general?

[markedman5]

I was watching a little of the press conference.

 

At one point Prince was asked about living up the contract and he said...."I just want to play hard......I think thats why the Brewers......I mean the Tigers...sorry....wanted me here"

 

 

I will always view him as a Brewer......hope he does great in the AL.

[Raw Biz]

How much will Tiger Stadium hurt Prince's production? Isn't it a tough park for lefties or even hitters in general?

Tiger Stadium would've been great. Unfortunately, they play at Comerica Park now. But I get what you're saying.

[markedman5]

I can't keep track of all the new corporate names on these parks.......I honestly still thought it was called Tiger stadium even though I know its a new park.

[patrickgpe]

How much will Tiger Stadium hurt Prince's production? Isn't it a tough park for lefties or even hitters in general?

i believe i heard that its been a few years since a lefty hit more than 5 homers in a season at comerica, which speaks to the park and their lack of left handed power since the place opened.

[pretendastronaut]

Here's a good article on Prince's offense in Comerica;

 

Prince Fielder's power numbers translate just fine to Comerica Park

 

I think this press conference is a little surprising. Maybe the media is tougher in Detroit, but it seems like the media there isn't fully sold on what they have in Fielder. One guy sounded a bit miffed that Cabrera was going to move to 3B and flat said it was a "real possibility" that it would cause problems for the team and asked Fielder if he would move to DH to not cause problems. Another guy prefaced that his question was completely serious and wanted to know about Prince being husky and if the contract had anything in it about Prince's weight. Another guy referred to Prince as a YouTube sensation for his on-field issues, seeming to play into the notion that Prince is a hothead.

 

Hopefully it's not indicative of the relationship he'll have there.

[Invader3K]

I'm guessing Prince's many millions of dollars will assuage any hard feelings he gets from dealing with a tougher local media.