Prince Fielder signs with Tigers - 9yrs/$214 million

[PKBadger]

On a semirelated note, this news made me google Cecil Fielder. My god, has daddy gotten big.

http://joshfrancis50.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/tig.jpg

 

 

Not sure if you were joking, but this is a real picture of Cecil Fielder taken in March 2011.

 

 

http://tucsoncitizen.com/highschoolsports/files/2011/03/Cecil-Fielder.jpg

[HiAndTight]

In the short run the Tigers payed like $20M to gain 1 win for 2012 because Fielder is a marginal upgrade over VMart at best. They are still a 87 win or so team who can miss the playoffs if things go poorly for them. 2013 this makes them a monster though assuming VMart is healthy.

They added a lot more than 1 Win with Prince Fielder in that lineup. I don't care what WAR says, or any other advanced Metric, that's a good team. WAR is meant to compare players and measure their performances, I don't know a whole lot of people who literally take WAR and translate it literally into actual wins and losses.

 

Prince and Cabrera in the middle of that order is devastating, and they already had a great lineup, and they're still trying to acquire Garza for Turner+ whomever. Verlander/Fister/Garza/Porcello and that lineup is as close to a lock to win a division as any team you're going to see going into next year IMO.

[RightFieldCoder]

I was there for HR #1. While he was circling the bases I leaned over to my now ex and told her she just witnessed the first HR of a HOFer.

 

I was there for his MP inside the park HR. You can still this dork in the replays. The ball "stuck under the fence" right in front of me. You can even see the moment I realize the Fielder is leaving second base and the ump is giving the safe sign. I know there is no way the player will be able to get him out at home. His only hope is for the ump to change his mind and call it a double, which he didn't.

 

I was there for HR #230 (his last regular season HR as a Brewer). It was hit right at me. I had my glove ready to catch it. I was fighting off the guy trying to jump over me from behind. I lady two seats to my left leaned over and put her glove in front of mine. One of the saddest moments of my life, that I didn't get that ball.

 

I was there for Game 2 of the 2011 NLCS. We decided to leave early since we were blown out in the top of the 8th inning. I stopped my family at the top of the section. Fielder was coming up in the bottom. I announced that I wanted to see Fielder's last HR in a Brewers uniform. I was chided for that remark because the rest of my family firmly believed that we would make the WS. They also believed we would resign him. Prince gave me one last goodbye and hit a HR right in front of us. It was his last.

 

Prince gave me many more memories over 6+ years.

 

I'm bitter right now, but I know it's just the sting of losing something you want to have forever. Fielder made the best decision for him and his family. It's not like this is a surprise (like with Molitor). We've seen this coming for years, ever since he hired Boras. I wish Fielder the best of luck in the future. My only parting shot is to wish the Brewers win a ring before him.

[Invader3K]

I saw one video of some Brewers "fan" burning a Prince Fielder jersey (linked to it on Twitter). Anyone that bent up over this is someone I can't relate to.

Like others have said, we've seen this coming for years now. I pretty much resigned myself to that fact a couple years ago when the Brewers couldn't get a long term deal done with him during spring training. The Brewers don't have any business playing in the realm of $200 million+ contracts, and I think reasonable fans know that. For me, some of the sting is lessened by the fact that the Brewers didn't bother to make some token offer during the off-season. I didn't want to see a repeat of the CC Sabathia "negotiations", and I'm glad Melvin and Attanasio didn't fall for it. After the NLCS, reality set in that Prince had played his final game as a Brewer, and I was OK with that.

 

I think yesterday was somewhat a bittersweet day. I'm glad he went to the Tigers and not a team like the Yankees or Red Sox, or worse yet a rival team in the NL. The reality is that I think we all figured we could only keep one of Fielder or Braun long term. I feel much better having Braun around for the next eight seasons (regardless of any suspension).

[mtrebs]

I saw one video of some Brewers "fan" burning a Prince Fielder jersey (linked to it on Twitter). Anyone that bent up over this is someone I can't relate to.

If he would have signed with the Cubs I would have been burning my wife's Fielder shirtsey. It wouldn't have been because he left, it would have been because he went the Cubs. The first thing my wife said to me after I told her that Fielder signed with the Tigers was "At least you're not going to burn my Fielder shirt now".

[PeaveyFury]

This is about as good a scenario as it gets for the Brewers. We'll see him maybe 3-6 games total over the length of that contract, and otherwise can be happy for what he does with them (unless we meet them in October some year!).

 

Like Melvin said in the JS, we all saw this coming, but it's still a sad day. Glad to have had him here and wish things could have worked out some how, but not for that contract. As much as I love Prince, the Tigers will regret that deal immensely by year 6.

[Invader3K]

the Tigers will regret that deal immensely by year 6.

We says stuff like this a lot, but I'm guessing if Prince helps Detroit get a championship (or two) within that time, they won't care all that much. They also will probably have him as the full time DH by then, which minimizes their risk somewhat.

[PeaveyFury]

Completely true, Invader. If they continue to win and he performs early, they won't care as much about years 6-9. He'll also present a marketing dream for them, considering his Dad's history as well.

[craigharmann]

Buster Olney of ESPN tweeted this morning that the Brewers were losers in signing Fielder. I went off on him. He gave no indications he wanted to stay, turned down long term offers, so what were they supposed to do? They've moved on. But to make it sound like they are losers when there wasn't even a chance of winning? Idiotic.

[Flood Pants]

Completely true, Invader. If they continue to win and he performs early, they won't care as much about years 6-9. He'll also present a marketing dream for them, considering his Dad's history as well.

Yeah, and their owner can pretty much afford to pay off that entire contract right now. This is Detroit buying a championship within the next two years for $215 million.

[CheezWizHed]

Obviously, Prince signed the 2nd biggest contract this offseason. But consider that its still less than AROD's contract with Texas (10 years, $252M) and he signed that over 11 years ago.

[jjfanec]

Buster Olney of ESPN tweeted this morning that the Brewers were losers in signing Fielder. I went off on him. He gave no indications he wanted to stay, turned down long term offers, so what were they supposed to do? They've moved on. But to make it sound like they are losers when there wasn't even a chance of winning? Idiotic.

Unless the Brewers were able to get him on a 4 or maybe 5 year deal they were winners by not signing him. It is smart baseball. Are the Twins winners because they signed Mauer to a ridiculous contract? When Pujols didnt sign with the Cardinals people didnt just immediately write them off but that is what some are doing with the Brewers and it makes no sense. This is a team with 4 offensive guys who have recently been All-Stars (Braun, Weeks, Hart, ARam) and a very good rotation and back-end of the bullpen. Sure we have question marks but rumors of the Brewers demise seems exaggerated.

I would have been sick to my stomach if the Brewers would have given Prince a deal anywhere close to what he got. The Brewers would have been losers had they not done a nice job upgraded at SS and 3B (not amazing moves but solid) and if Gamel hadnt at least shown some life in the minors.

What is also annoying is I bet Olney would say the Cubs were smart (and winners) for not signing Fielder or Pujols

 

[CheezWizHed]

Since the Brewers moved to the NL, the Twins have become my favorite AL team. So, I would have preferred him to go to Washington...

[DuWayne Steurer]

the Tigers will regret that deal immensely by year 6.

We says stuff like this a lot, but I'm guessing if Prince helps Detroit get a championship (or two) within that time, they won't care all that much. They also will probably have him as the full time DH by then, which minimizes their risk somewhat.

Everyone said it about the Astros and Carlos Lee, and they were 100% correct. Granted, they don't have the ability to DH him, but no matter how you slice it, Lee's offense has been nowhere NEAR worthy of his pay, even if he was playing gold glove caliber defense at either 1B or LF.

 

Will Prince's bat fall off like Lee's? Hard to say. I wouldn't want to take that chance at 25 mil plus. for years 6 through 9.

[MillerParkSouth]

Aside from Molitor and Yount, Prince is my favorite Brewer of all time. He was the first of the new wave of prospects to get me really excited and I bought his jersey in the fall of 2005 because I knew he was going to be a stud. I'll remember the multi-home run games at Wrigley, the bowling ball celebration, the inside the park home runs, the triples and how he always seemed to play hard. He's also one of the few guys on the Brewers over the past several years that seemed to show any plate discipline, which I loved about him. I'm really happy that he signed with the Tigers so that I can keep rooting for him and i'll even head down to the southside to see a few Tigers/White Sox games now. Hopefully when he comes back to Milwaukee he'll get a standing O for the 6 great years and 2 playoff appearances. We never had a chance to sign him and frankly it would have crippled the franchise had we given him the kind of money he wanted and I hope all of the casual fans out there realize that when he comes back around. He's a once in a lifetime kind of player and we should all be happy that we had him on our team for those 6 years.

[Invader3K]

Unless the Brewers were able to get him on a 4 or maybe 5 year deal they were winners by not signing him. It is smart baseball. Are the Twins winners because they signed Mauer to a ridiculous contract? When Pujols didnt sign with the Cardinals people didnt just immediately write them off but that is what some are doing with the Brewers and it makes no sense.

This is a great point, and reminds me of a quote from Melvin from earlier this winter. It was something along the lines of, "The teams who win in the winter hot stove often don't wind up winning anything." Being the team to give out the biggest contract or sign the most top free agents isn't always a recipe for success.

I don't think you can compare this signing to Carlos Lee's deal with the Astros, though. While Lee was a great hitter during his time with the Brewers, I don't think he was quite an elite hitter like Prince has been. Lee was also four years older than Prince when he signed with the Astros. Plus I would say the Tigers have a much better front office and ownership than the Astros have had, so that lessens the chance of them becoming as terrible as Houston has been.

 

[YoungGeezy]

Supposedly Prince and Cecil have at least somewhat patched things up.

Supposedly.....according to Cecil.

I doubt he lied about it. He has been very honest in the past about their relationship. I don't get why all of a sudden he would start making things bout him and Prince starting to finally heal their damaged relationship.

 

Its hard for almost anyone to completely cut a parent out of their life, deny their children to meet or play with their grand father, and stay extremely hateful towards them. He is getting older, more mature, and is a family man. Much different than the young to mid 20's kid who made the choice to cut Cecil out of his life. Dad made some huge mistakes but still loves him and Prince prob still deep down loves him.

 

To me, I thought the opposite of sticking it to his dad. He grew up at Tiger Stadium with his dad and is know bring the name back.

 

I will miss Prince a bunch but great sign for him and happy for him. Best of luck and thanks for leaving the NL and not going to Cubs!

[JohnBriggs12]

So Prince is a rich man. Of course if he'd signed with the Brewers he'd still be a rich man but for some guys it's more about bragging rights. He lucked out in that the one team that lost a key player for the year also happens to be a team owned by a guy who can afford to buy a championship and doesn't care about losing money.

 

Fielder's case is prime example why baseball needs a salary cap and also why it will never happen. Twenty-nine owners can all make the sound business decision that Fielder isn't worth anything near what Boras was asking. Then one comes along that sees an opportunity to buy a championship so he can bask in the glory, even if it means losing millions of dollars. Fortunately for fans of the NFL with the exception of say Jerry Jones, ownership in the NFL puts the good of the league before anything else.

 

My daughter recently relocated to Toledo. I've offered her my Fielder shirt. The Tigers are now on par with the Yankees and Red Sox as teams I don't want to win.

[Raw Biz]

So Prince is a rich man. Of course if he'd signed with the Brewers he'd still be a rich man but for some guys it's more about bragging rights. He lucked out in that the one team that lost a key player for the year also happens to be a team owned by a guy who can afford to buy a championship and doesn't care about losing money.

 

Fielder's case is prime example why baseball needs a salary cap and also why it will never happen. Twenty-nine owners can all make the sound business decision that Fielder isn't worth anything near what Boras was asking. Then one comes along that sees an opportunity to buy a championship so he can bask in the glory, even if it means losing millions of dollars. Fortunately for fans of the NFL with the exception of say Jerry Jones, ownership in the NFL puts the good of the league before anything else.

 

My daughter recently relocated to Toledo. I've offered her my Fielder shirt. The Tigers are now on par with the Yankees and Red Sox as teams I don't want to win.

Man, you seem to be negative a lot of your posts nowadays. I don't remember it always having been that way but maybe I'm wrong. Yeah it sucks that Prince is gone but we knew it was coming. He seemed like a good guy, can't you just wish him the best and be done with it?

[adamb100]

Congrats to Prince, best of luck with the Tigers when you're not playing the Brewers. http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif

[gregmag]

In the short run the Tigers payed like $20M to gain 1 win for 2012 because Fielder is a marginal upgrade over VMart at best. They are still a 87 win or so team who can miss the playoffs if things go poorly for them. 2013 this makes them a monster though assuming VMart is healthy.

They added a lot more than 1 Win with Prince Fielder in that lineup. I don't care what WAR says, or any other advanced Metric, that's a good team. WAR is meant to compare players and measure their performances, I don't know a whole lot of people who literally take WAR and translate it literally into actual wins and losses.

 

Prince and Cabrera in the middle of that order is devastating, and they already had a great lineup, and they're still trying to acquire Garza for Turner+ whomever. Verlander/Fister/Garza/Porcello and that lineup is as close to a lock to win a division as any team you're going to see going into next year IMO.

But you're just translating subjective impressions into actual wins and losses. If we're going to try to project a team's performance, and our choices are (a) to use WAR as a basis for our projection or (b) to talk subjectively about a team's players, I'll take WAR every time. I won't stop with WAR, but it's as good a beginning as we have for organizing the mountain of information we have to evaluate if we're going to make projections. If that's not your idea of a good time, fair enough -- it's actually not mine -- but that doesn't make a more casual analysis more useful than a more structured analysis.

 

I do have a problem with Ennder's point, though. Maybe this move doesn't improve the Tigers much over last year, but the more important measure of what Detroit has gained seems to be where they would be this year with Fielder vs. where they would be without him. If we aren't looking at Fielder vs. V-Mart but rather Fielder vs. replacement level 1b, or whatever the best available alternative is at this point, the gain may be much greater. Even if Fielder adds three wins to the projection (based on whatever system or logic one wants to use), the difference between an 84-win projection and an 87-win projection is massive, if you're talking about the likelihood of contending in the AL Central. On that basis, it may end up being a pretty smart $20 million outlay.

[homer]

the Tigers will regret that deal immensely by year 6.

We says stuff like this a lot, but I'm guessing if Prince helps Detroit get a championship (or two) within that time, they won't care all that much. They also will probably have him as the full time DH by then, which minimizes their risk somewhat.

Everyone said it about the Astros and Carlos Lee, and they were 100% correct.

They also said it about Soriano.

[dadofandrew]

With the DH, the risk is minimal. Prince is still very young, and he's not going to forget how to hit. DET will like their deal far longer than the Angels like there's, as Pujols is at least 5 years older, and possibly 7-8.

[Roderick]

- There has been so much talk about TV contracts around the league. I haven't heard the Tigers mentioned as a team with an sizable TV contract. Seems like they would be closer to the Brewers in this regard. I realize their owner is worth $2 billion, but still curious what their TV deal is estimated at? Seems like Detroit's population and disposable income has been dropping over the past several years.

The state of Michigan still has 70% more people than Wisconsin and I assume the TV contract is based on the whole state (like the Brewers). So I would assume their contract would be proportionally more than the Brewers.

 

Detroit's population has gone down 25% in ten years, but the urban/metro area is still 4 million people. So even if you eliminate the people that are on Hardcore Pawn, they would still have more people with disposable income than the Brewers.

[honuswagner21]

- There has been so much talk about TV contracts around the league. I haven't heard the Tigers mentioned as a team with an sizable TV contract. Seems like they would be closer to the Brewers in this regard. I realize their owner is worth $2 billion, but still curious what their TV deal is estimated at? Seems like Detroit's population and disposable income has been dropping over the past several years.

The state of Michigan still has 70% more people than Wisconsin and I assume the TV contract is based on the whole state (like the Brewers). So I would assume their contract would be proportionally more than the Brewers.

 

Detroit's population has gone down 25% in ten years, but the urban/metro area is still 4 million people. So even if you eliminate the people that are on Hardcore Pawn, they would still have more people with disposable income than the Brewers.

http://www.sportstvjobs.c...tv-market-sizes-dma.html

 

The above link shows that Detroit is the 11th largest TV market in the US. Milwaukee is 34th, behind Columbus, OH and Salt Lake City. The team's reach extends well beyond that so their TV deal is going to be much bigger than the Brewers'. Plus, even though Michigan has been hit hard by the economic downturn there is some unbelievable wealth in the suburbs surrounding Detroit.