Mark Trumbo: 12.10: LAA discussing 3-team deal with ARZ & CHW? (post #59)

[Warning Track Power]

Apparently the Angels are toying with the idea of dealing Peter Bourjos to the Nationals for Jesus Flores. If they are willing to deal a Bourjos I'd be willing to give them Kottaras fOr him in a heartbeat. Bourjos is the fastest CF I have ever seen. Faster than Gomez and I love Gomez. I would strongly consider the following deal:

 

Trumbo and Bourjos for Hart, Kottaras and K-Rod

 

Brewers get younger and cheaper and possibly better for this year and undoubtedly for next year. Angels get a closer, an upgrade in RF and a catcher. Gamel shifts to RF in 2013. Trumbo is your 1B. Bourjos is your CF. K-Rod and Hart's salaries are off the books possibly freeing up money for SP. Our lineup would be pretty set moving forward for the next few years:

 

CF Bourjos

2B Weeks

LF Braun

3B Ramirez

1B Trumbo

RF Gamel

C Lucroy

SS ?

[Kelbysdaddy]

i want the brewers to trade for trumbo really badly. he can hit a mile but cant play 3b a lick- which is the only spot the angels have for him. if they want a back up catcher, we have pretty much the best one. they need a closer, we have two. go for trumbo and jean segura and we have 1b and ss covered. move gamel to the of(sorry mat). i dont see them moving bourjos since torii hunters contract is up after this season. they dont need trumbo since cj cron will be the dh of the future.

[cvollbrecht]

i want the brewers to trade for trumbo really badly. he can hit a mile but cant play 3b a lick- which is the only spot the angels have for him. if they want a back up catcher, we have pretty much the best one. they need a closer, we have two. go for trumbo and jean segura and we have 1b and ss covered. move gamel to the of(sorry mat). i dont see them moving bourjos since torii hunters contract is up after this season. they dont need trumbo since cj cron will be the dh of the future.

 

I like your idea, but if I am thinking more realistically I don't think there is a chance we could pry Segura from them. He is their top prospect and not getting traded for a back-up catchers (albeit a good one) and a rental of K-Rod. I could see us maybe getting Trumbo and Andrew Romine from them for Kottaras and K-Rod. Romine is a switch-hitter, a stud defensively and currently has a OBP of .391 in the PCL. Both players can fill right in for us this season and Romine gives us a few more years to develop Rivera or Arcia.

 

Kottaras, K-Rod, filler

for

Trumbo & Romine

 

 

CF Gomez/Aoki/Morgan

2B Weeks

LF Braun

3B Ramirez

RF Hart

1B Trumbo

C Lucroy

SS Romine

Pitcher

[Dollarbill13]

Trumbo for Kottaras would be the greatest trade ever. No way that will ever happen straight-up, would definitely need to include another piece.

 

The same Trumbo who had a .291 OBP last year in 573 PA? He currently has a .300 BA on a .365 BABIP. Once that BABIP regresses, I don't think he adds a lot to a lineup that is already lacking in OBP ability. I think I'd rather just stick with Taylor Green at first and shoot for a .340/.440 slash line compared to a .310/.480 slash line that Trumbo is likely to give you.

[JohnBriggs12]

Trumbo for Kottaras would be the greatest trade ever. No way that will ever happen straight-up, would definitely need to include another piece.

 

The same Trumbo who had a .291 OBP last year in 573 PA? He currently has a .300 BA on a .365 BABIP. Once that BABIP regresses, I don't think he adds a lot to a lineup that is already lacking in OBP ability. I think I'd rather just stick with Taylor Green at first and shoot for a .340/.440 slash line compared to a .310/.480 slash line that Trumbo is likely to give you.

 

 

Seriously? I like Green too, but he's yet to take a walk in 49 major league PA. Trumbo's hit anywhere from 5th to 7th. Those are RBI spots and he's delivered. Green to his credit has gone up there hacking in the 7 hole too. But Trumbo is 6'4" and 225 lbs, with easy power and a great target at 1B. He projects as a cleanup hitter. Green is 5'11", 195, and while he generates some power, he's not the slugger Trumbo is and he's built to play 3B or 2B. Guys with high BABIP tend to be good hitters. Trumbo for a big guy with power doesn't strike out excessively either.

[Kelbysdaddy]

i could really care less about a .291 obp from a guy that hit 29 hrs and 87 rbis. sure those random nerd numbers are great and all but runs are what wins games.

 

those were his rookie stats. he was only 25 last year. he struck out 5x more then he walked last year but so far this year he is 23k/9bb. not bad as far as i'm concerned.

[jerichoholicninja]

sure those random nerd numbers are great and all but runs are what wins games.

 

Proven facts are great and all but unicorns are what makes sunshine.

[Baldkin]

Seriously? I like Green too, but he's yet to take a walk in 49 major league PA.

 

I looked up his plate discipline at fangraphs, and the crazy thing is, this year, he's swung at less balls outside the zone than league average, but he also swings at an above average clip in the zone -- and he doesn't really swing and miss much.

 

Pitchers just haven't been throwing him balls. Hopefully he'll get a little more selective, but when your manager seems to only let you play when you got a hit the day before, that would be hard to do.

[monty57]

At least one of Melvin/Roenicke obviously doesn't think Green is an everyday MLB player. While I'd like to see him get a shot this season to see what he can give us, I doubt he will be given that shot.

 

Meanwhile, the "Melvin-speak" about Ishikawa reminds me of how he talked about Betancourt last season. They know Ishikawa's not a good, long-term answer, but he's going to start this season, so we'll hear a lot of things like "if he gives us anything at the plate it's a bonus because of all the runs he saves on defense."

 

Unless something falls into our lap at first base, I think that if we're going to upgrade anywhere this season, it will be shortstop, #5 starter or relief pitching before we'd upgrade 1B. While I like Trumbo and he would be an upgrade, we have Ishikawa, Green and Hart as options at 1B (and Gamel will be back next year), while SS is down to Izturis and Maysonet with little in the minor leagues, #5 starter is Estrada and prospects (a bad word for Roenicke) and our relief pitching has been pretty bad.

[jmeks23]

Green's getting chances, more chances than Gamel got a few years ago. Ishikawa will play tonight, maybe tomorrow as well due to last night, but Green will continue getting his chances.

 

There's this deep love for Taylor Green by people on this board but I just don't see it. We'll see how it pans out but he just doesn't seem like an impact bat IMO, and he's shown very little power in the majors thus far.

[Baldkin]

We'll see how it pans out but he just doesn't seem like an impact bat IMO, and he's shown very little power in the majors thus far.

 

Well, if they call that ball a triple instead of a single and two base error the other night, he'd be slugging .500 this season. He hasn't really had a chance to show anything thus far.

[3and2Fastball]

Ishikawa's 2 Home Runs last night means that Green won't start much for a while unless Travis goes 0 for 10 in a stretch. Small samples are what Roenicke thrives on

[Dollarbill13]

Green's getting chances, more chances than Gamel got a few years ago. Ishikawa will play tonight, maybe tomorrow as well due to last night, but Green will continue getting his chances.

 

There's this deep love for Taylor Green by people on this board but I just don't see it. We'll see how it pans out but he just doesn't seem like an impact bat IMO, and he's shown very little power in the majors thus far.

 

Green now has 57 major league plate appearances so it will be a while before we really know how he'll pan out as a major leaguer. I, personally, wouldn't say I "love" Green. If we were in the off-season, I'd definitely be looking for an upgrade at 1B. Trumbo had a great 2010 in AAA (.299/.366/.575) and a pretty mediocre 2011 in the bigs. He showed tons of power but very little plate discipline. He now has a great 102 plate appearances in 2012, heavily due to a .381 BABIP. In comparison, Green had a great 2011 in AAA (.336/.413/..583) and mediocre results in 133 combined plate appearances this year. Green is also about a year younger than Trumbo.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Green to turn into a decent hitter and be a little more OBP heavy compared to Trumbo's SLG heavy line. I'm not saying that Trumbo won't end up as a better hitter but it's not worth trading a significant amount to get him right now.

[Raw Biz]

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Green to turn into a decent hitter and be a little more OBP heavy compared to Trumbo's SLG heavy line. I'm not saying that Trumbo won't end up as a better hitter but it's not worth trading a significant amount to get him right now.

 

I don't know what it'd take but if they want Kottaras, like I said, greatest trade ever. Even if Trumbo isn't the future at 1B, he makes the team better now than a backup catcher.

[Dollarbill13]

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Green to turn into a decent hitter and be a little more OBP heavy compared to Trumbo's SLG heavy line. I'm not saying that Trumbo won't end up as a better hitter but it's not worth trading a significant amount to get him right now.

 

I don't know what it'd take but if they want Kottaras, like I said, greatest trade ever. Even if Trumbo isn't the future at 1B, he makes the team better now than a backup catcher.

 

I don't know man, we'd be getting a 1B with a .990 OPS for a C with a 1.124 OPS. Seems like a downgrade to me. I guess my point was that we'd be trading a good hitting, poor hitting catcher for an alright hitting 1B. I'd make the trade if it were offered (but like you said, not gonna happen), but the difference between Trumbo and Green is probably similar to the difference between Kottaras and Maldonado

[cvollbrecht]

I really think the person we should be looking at is Bourjos. Paired with Gomez he could give us one of the best defensive OF in all of baseball. Move Hart to 1B and you improve the defense at 2 positions. The only difficult thing about this would be figuring out who plays CF between Gomez and Bourjos. They are bot stellar in CF but I'd have to go with Gomez. If you platoon Gomez/Aoki, then you have Bourjos play CF and Aoki in RF.

 

Kottaras, K-Rod, Morgan for Bourjos, Romine, Fieri

 

RF Bourjos

2B Weeks

LF Braun

3B Ramirez

1B Hart

CF Gomez/Aoki

C Lucroy

SS Romine

Pitcher

[monty57]

I really think the person we should be looking at is Bourjos.

 

We have three CF on the current roster, and MLB ready Schafer sitting in AAA. We badly need a SS and at the moment the only current SP we have returning for sure next year is Gallardo. I wouldn't be shopping for a CF if I were Melvin. My sights would be set on what I'm going to do at SS and SP in the near future.

[RockCoCougars]

Bourjos looks completely overmatched at the MLB level, and he's only a year younger than Gomez.

[brewcrewdue80]

MLBTR Reporting that the Angels are shopping for Pitching and offering up Trumbo/Bourjos as trade bait.

 

He is arb eligible? for the first time? or 1 year away? Either way it would give the team 3-4years of control at 1b. And I'd expect cheaper than returning Hart.

 

Just wonder if any of Milwaukee's pitchers would grab their attention to make the trade? What if the team paid 15mil of Lohse's salary? And returned Hellweg? for Trumbo? I wouldn't be willing to trade Peralta but after him, is any one pitcher also on your untradeables? I'm guessing Gallardo doesn't fit what Angels want.

 

I just think of Trumbo hitting at MP and think he'd hit for 40HRs in a season. Any other thoughts/suggestions on this?

[Kelbysdaddy]

I'd love trumbo to wear brewer blue next year but sadly I don't think we'd have the pitching they'd be looking for. I'm sure they could get 2 top 75-100 prospects for him.

[jerichoholicninja]

Trumbo's only skill is hitting homeruns. It's a nice skill to have but when you consistently hit 30 homeruns and can't post an OPS above .800, you really don't have much value.

 

Boujos might be nice but he's Carlos Gomez without the power and unless Gomez is trade it seems pointless to get him.

 

The big point though is that the Brewers can't be trading young pitchers at this point. I wouldn't even trade Lohse for both or either of these guys unless the Angels were paying most, if not all, of his contract.

[trwi7]

Mark Trumbo's career OBP is 15 points higher than Yuniesky Betancourt's. I don't want that guy playing for the Brewers unless it's a bench role.

[JohnBriggs12]

A Juan Francisco/Sean Halton platoon (or going with the hotter of the two) at 1B would likely provide 30 HR and hit .230 and that wouldn't cost a good young pitcher. If healthy I'd take Hart over Trumbo any day.

[brewcrewdue80]

Trumbo's only skill is hitting homeruns. It's a nice skill to have but when you consistently hit 30 homeruns and can't post an OPS above .800, you really don't have much value.

 

Boujos might be nice but he's Carlos Gomez without the power and unless Gomez is trade it seems pointless to get him.

 

The big point though is that the Brewers can't be trading young pitchers at this point. I wouldn't even trade Lohse for both or either of these guys unless the Angels were paying most, if not all, of his contract.

 

 

And the 1b front out there looks filled with .800OPS players under 3years or more of team control right? Not to mention the durability Trumbo has had. If it's Hart or Trumbo I'm taking Trumbo. If it's Morris or Trumbo, who do you want? Age wise Morris is 2 years younger only while Trumbo has 460 games of experience.

 

I keep looking at the 1b market, prospect wise- and recall heading in to this season Hunter Morris was the 3rd best of them all in ranking. And meanwhile, we had the worst 1b output in the league throwing 7 guys on 1b who never had 1game of ML experience at it? Morris couldn't crack that?

What does that say about the 1b prospects coming up? I am in the thought that 1b looks like Mark Trumbo's numbers only with 15 less HRs a season accompanying them.

 

Anthony Rizzo was to be a premier 1b prospect and his numbers: .233/.323/.419/.742 23/80

Justin Smoak another: .238/.334/.412/.746 20/50

Yonder Alonso: ..281/.341/.368/.710 6/45

Logan Morrison: .242/.333/.375/.709 6/36

Chris Carter: .223/.320/.451/.770 29/82 calling Houston ballpark home

Ike Davis: .205/.326/.334/.661 9/33

 

These were the future of 1b 3years ago all of them under .800 OPS Batting Averages similar his OB is lower but look at the counting stat...HR/RBI Trumbo's 34/100 is the top of the class there.

 

He's been a 2+WAR player for 3 season's now. Something the Yuni comparison of OB clearly shows insignificance. And it's not like Trumbo was protected well in the lineup, a move to our better blended lineup could help on the pitches he sees.

 

 

Again, if the team is going to approach 2014 as one of competing this move makes sense to me vs. a Hart pray and hope. Or Hunter Morris callup and hope.

I for one don't see the Brewers really being competitive next season at least in the pitching matchups when it counts. I'd rather throw Gomez on the trade market for SPs. Give Hart his incentive laden deal for 1year, try trading Gallardo And Lohse and see what happens in return. But if MA and DM are trying to win, I feel much more secure about it going with Trumbo vs Hart considering you're dealing with Braun/ARam/Weeks on the maybe they'll not be injured front. You take Hart/ARam/Braun/Weeks and run them out there next season and hope none will miss significant time and I foresee it becoming a poor decision.

[jerichoholicninja]

If the Angels said "here, take Mark Trumbo," I would be fine with that but they are going to want something in return and the reports are pitching and young pitching is what they want. I do not want to give up young pitching for him. I'd prefer to hold out hope of Yo reverting to his old self and getting something more at the deadline than to trade him for Trumbo. That leaves only Lohse and I think he would be too old and too expensive for what they are looking for.

 

I'm not sold on Morris (and I have a feeling the front office isn't either) as the future but at least he won't cost anything in terms of players or money. If it was my decision to make I would offer Corey a 1 year deal for $5M with incentives and hope he stays healthy enough to be productive and trade. If he declines the offer, I give first to Morris and see what happens.