Brewers Bench

[PrinceFielderx1]

The Giants are shopping Ryan Theriot and Mike Fontenot.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/03/giants-shopping-ryan-theriot-mike-fontenot.html

[TooLiveBrew]

Neither one is a good option at SS, but I guess Theriot has at least played at SS & would obviously be better than Izturis.

[recte44]

I'd love to have Theriot.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Yeah, I'd take Theriot over Izturis in a heartbeat. Especially because he'd probably land somewhere else and kill the Brewers otherwise, lol. But in all seriousness, he's probably a better bench option that Izturis, and I'm pretty sure we showed some interest in him this offseason IIRC.

[3and2Fastball]

Ryan The Riot would be a pretty significant upgrade over Izturis.

 

His career .373 OBP vs LHP would be nice to have on the bench. Theriot has also hit .340 with a .406 OBP in his career in Miller Park. He's been dealing with an ankle injury this spring but reportedly is getting better...

[yoshii8]

I actually might prefer Mike Fontenot. He seemed to do pretty well playing SS last season, judging by the advanced statisitcs on fangraphs. Plus he almost had a .800 OPS on the road last season.

[docduany]

Have we seriously been reduced to hoping for the Riot or Fontenot? The 2009 Cubs called and they want their starting infield back. I want to put this in blue,but I can't. I would prefer Theriot over Fontenot and Izturis. That's just my gut feeling without actually looking into the numbers. If stat heads tell me that Theriot is God awful, I mean overall worse than Izturis than I would change my uneducated mind.

[TooLiveBrew]

Have we seriously been reduced to hoping for the Riot or Fontenot?

Yes, it's that bad. Painful to admit, isn't it?

[PrinceEatMeat]

Keep in mind that we're talking about a backup IF spot here, actually basically the last spot on the roster. It's not that bad to be mentioning Theriot. He's not a good starter, but he'd be fine as a bench player. A lot better than Izturis in my opinion.

[endaround]

The Orioles are looking to move Reynolds. Now his contract is terrible ($8m, the downside of locking up young talent through their arby years) but if the Orioles ate like $5.5-6m I'd much rather have him coming off the bench to hit than Conrad. But that does require getting a Fontenot/Theriot type who can actually play the field as a real backup infielder.

[JohnBriggs12]

How about Edwin Maysonet as the backup at SS instead of Izturis? Maysonet has had a decent spring. He's hit pretty well in the minors (.290 last year). He's adequate in the field. Plus he's right handed. Green has clearly outplayed Conrad this spring and deserves the other backup spot in my opinion too. Yeah, you'd like Taylor Green getting AB's every day, but lets face it, he's blocked in the Brewer system and with Ramirez and Weeks both locked up, he won't be unblocked anytime soon so why not get something out of him at the big league level. Find a way to get him in the lineup a couple times a week resting Ramirez, Weeks or Gamel.

[monty57]

We're already way over budget for the year, we've signed an aging 3B to what will almost assuredly be an albatross contract in a year or two, rather than trading any vets with only 1-year left on their contracts we're holding them all and losing them after the season, and Melvin now wants his 25th man to be someone we should all feel comfortable with starting a large chunk of the season. But we're supposed to believe this isn't an "all-in" season?

 

Izturis stinks, but backup SS are supposed to stink. If he can't play the field adequately, then do as Briggs suggests and call up Maysonet for league minimum. If they have any money left, save it for when they really need it to bring in a player mid-season when we know what we'll need.

[yoshii8]

Do you really think that getting a legit backup IF would prevent us from adding someone at the deadline? I don't believe that for a second. Mark A. has shown that he will go above the budget if it means adding the right guy.

 

I feel like getting a legit backup SS is a big deal. That person will likely get 200 some Ab's, and I don't want to just give those away to a guy like Cesar Izturis. Also, Gonzalez is 35 years old, so I'd like to have someone who can provide insurance, in case of injury. Knock on wood.

[Warning Track Power]

I'd be very happy with Fontenot as the backup SS.

 

He has a little thump in his bat. If nothing else, the Brewers would have some versatile backup utility IF with him and Conrad being able to play all over the diamond.

[JohnBriggs12]

I really think Maysonet is a decent option. I know Ueck has said nice things about him in the past. He's still hanging around at big league camp too and that tells me they are at least considering him. He does a lot of the little stuff too. He had 15 sacrifice bunts for Nashville last year and he's got some gap power.

[monty57]

Do you really think that getting a legit backup IF would prevent us from adding someone at the deadline?

 

Ryan Theriot is making $1.25MM this year, so yes, I do think that adding someone like Theriot could keep us from adding another player later. Earlier this offseason, Melvin was hesitant to spend over $3MM on a bench player buceause we didn't have any money. Now we act as if there is no limit on spending.

 

Mark A. has shown that he will go above the budget if it means adding the right guy.

 

We're already over $100MM on our payroll because we've already added a lot of "right guys," some of whom were added at the expense of prospects as well as money, and some of whose additions blocked other seemingly MLB-ready prospects. Prospects being those guys who would cost league minimum instead of $36MM over three years. Carlos Lee was truly the "right guy" at the time, and really signified change in the organization. Extending Greinke could be the "right guy," as it would symbolize where we're going in the future. I can't force myself to believe that Ryan Theriot is the guy we need to further blow the budget over.

 

I feel like getting a legit backup SS is a big deal.

 

I think financial solvency is a big deal. It can lead to long-term success. If the owners have to dip into their own pockets, or take out additional loans to pay for going "all-in" this year, then they are going to want to show a profit in future years. Since we're on the line for a number of higher-priced, longer-term contracts, we've limited our ongoing payroll flexibility. Since we don't have a top-flight farm system, we won't have top-flight talent coming in. Where is this profit going to come from?

 

Does adding a million dollar player mean the end of the world? No, but since we're already well over budget, every extra dollar has to come from somewhere. Most likely, once we reach a certain point over budget, the money will be borrowed from the future. Budgets are in place for a reason, they aren't arbitrary numbers. Every additional dollar we spend is one step closer to potentially not extending Greinke, or having to trade a good player(s) in the future because we can't afford them, or some other bad future consequence due to lack of fiscal restraint in the present.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Basically, if Izturis can play good defense like he has previously in his career, he'll be fine. Defense is really the only requirement for a backup SS. It's not like whoever the backup SS is will be getting a ton of pinch-hitting opportunities. Those will go to Conrad/Green, Kottaras, and Aoki. And Morgan when he's coming off the bench. Izturis will essentially only play on days when Gonzalez needs to rest, or as the last man of the bench in rare situations. Melvin is likely looking around for a possible upgrade, but I honestly don't think he'll go out of his way to make it happen. And by going out of his way, I mean trading anything besides a low-level or paying someone like Theriot when already over budget. He'll just go with Izturis, and look for a possible upgrade at the deadline if it's not working out.

[CheezWizHed]

If the owners have to dip into their own pockets, or take out additional loans to pay for going "all-in" this year, then they are going to want to show a profit in future years.

 

I don't have a link, but didn't we end up in the black last year after going "all-in"? I get the feeling we did and that has allowed Mark A the flexibility to stretch the budget much higher than any of thought they would already... Not sure how any of us can know how much more they are willing to go or if they are already over-budget.

[monty57]

I can't remember what their end-of-year payroll was last year, but I'm pretty sure it was a little over $90MM, so they ended last year significantly below where they're likely starting this year. Plus, they made the NL Championship series last year, which isn't a certainty in any year. I believe the new TV deal kicks in this year or next, which helps, but I read an article earlier this year that quoted Melvin saying their budget for this year was between $80MM & $90MM and that they are significantly over budget. I'm sure they figure in some profit when making the budget, so who knows when they would either have to dip into their own pockets or borrow money, but they have to be close.

 

K-Rod threw a wrench in the plans for this year, and I think Melvin was able to convince Attanasio that Ramirez was "the guy" worth going over budget. Those are one thing, but Attanasio would have to be in a state of playoff-enduced euphoria to okay spending another $1.25MM in the red for a guy like Theriot to be the 25th man. If Gonzalez gets hurt and they're in the playoff hunt, he may okay it, but not now "just in case someone gets hurt." $1.25MM may not seem like a lot when we see the salaries thrown around these days, but it's still a lot of money, especially when you're already $10+MM over budget.

[endaround]

Not spending 700K more in salary for .5 a win is foolhardy

[monty57]

Not spending 700K more in salary for .5 a win is foolhardy

 

You speak as if that's a precise algebraic formula and as if the Brewers have any more money to spend. It is often foolish to spend money you don't have.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Well, seeing as Izturis has been told he will make the team, I guess the search for a replacement is over.

[GormanHarvey]

Well, seeing as Izturis has been told he will make the team, I guess the search for a replacement is over.

 

Not sure I've ever been less enthused about a player claiming an MLB roster spot in my tenure as a Brewers fan

[craigharmann]

Well, seeing as Izturis has been told he will make the team, I guess the search for a replacement is over.

 

Not sure I've ever been less enthused about a player claiming an MLB roster spot in my tenure as a Brewers fan

 

Even Yuni?

[GormanHarvey]

Well, seeing as Izturis has been told he will make the team, I guess the search for a replacement is over.

 

Not sure I've ever been less enthused about a player claiming an MLB roster spot in my tenure as a Brewers fan

 

Even Yuni?

 

I guess I should've been more specific ...my comment was in regards to a player that we did not know for certain was going to make the team. And even though I knew what to expect from Yuni for the most part, I wasn't as down on him as most because we really didn't have any other option