Morgan vs Gomez in CF

[logan82]

So as not to further dilute the lineup thread, how do you think Gomez and Morgan should be used in CF? I think by the end of the season the manager had it right, other than the Kotsay in CF starts. They should go with a straight platoon.

 

I will say I haven't seen too much from Gomez to indicate a 180, but the

age hopefully allows for some improvement. Gomez did look much better

than Morgan in the post season with the bat and the glove. Small sample

yes, but cause for hope Gomez could improve his bat.

Every player has good and bad streaks over the course of the season. Gomez just happened to look good in the post season. There is little to indicate Gomez will improve with the bat. Things you wold look at to see a change in approach have remained pretty constant, BB rates, K-rates, O swing%, etc. He hit the ball a little harder but to a hit to his already poor OBP.

 

If you go by straight UZR/150, Morgan and Gomez are dead even in CF with a career UZR/150 of 16.1. I don't think Morgan is as good as Gomez but the difference is not all that big. DRS has them at about 20 and 15 runs saved per 150 games in CF. Watching them the whole season, I would say that Gomez has a stronger arm and better range but not much better range.

[paul253]

I actually wouldn't mind seeing Morgan traded for a prospect. I think Logan Schafer could be used in Morgan's role as a platoon mate to Gomez. Morgan was a great pickup by Melvin but there is a reason he's bounced around so much. I have to admit, the multiple personality thing was funny at first but after awhile it got a little annoying. I think if you can get a decent prospect for him, particularly a shortstop, third baseman or catcher, you pull the trigger.

 

If this doesn't happen, I say you use them exactly the same as you used them this past season. Morgan vs righties. Gomez vs lefties and as a late inning defensive replacement or pinch runner.

[Kelbysdaddy]

i really think gomez will have a breakout year. with his defense, i'm completely fine with him hitting .240-.260. he played really well last year before his broken collarbone. i really like nyjer but i prefer him as out 4th of.

[TheCrew07]

I've seen enough of Gomez that I'm not willing to buy into any hype surrounding some magically turn around for him. He is approaching what should be his peak years as a player but he's shown no noticeable improvement at the plate at all.

 

On the bases he's still a liability, for every extra base he takes via steals, 1st-3rd, or scoring a run when other players on the roster wouldn't have gotten the extra base he gives back by making very poor decisions that lead to outs on the bases.

 

By far the best part of his game is in the field and he's gradually reduced the boneheaded plays of throwing to the wrong base, though he still does on occasion. Gomez generally takes good routes to balls in play and has a strong throwing arm.

 

Morgan isn't going to significantly improve at the plate either, he's an excellent LH option as part of a platoon. He's not going to give much power or walk at a high rate, but he does hit for a high average and make consistent contact.

 

In the field he really struggles on balls straight back over his head but has good range to the gaps, and an average arm at best.

 

For 2012 I'm fine with the platoon as it existed at the end of last season. However if the opportunity presented itself to sell high and trade Morgan for a legit prospect I'd be willing to take the upgrade from Dykstra to whatever prospect we received back and move Schafer up to MLB to be the LH portion of the platoon. I'm all for giving a fresh face or 3 a chance every season, I'm not hung up on veterans by any stretch.

 

Melvin only has a contract through 2012 so I wouldn't expect any type of bold move that would run the risk of blowing up in his face (even though I don' think Schafer carries much risk), as such I think we'll see the Morgan/Gomez platoon again for 2011. As it stands he has a team that should complete for the playoffs in 2011 which will likely earn him another contract extension much to my dismay.

 

Short of the Brewers falling apart and Melvin selling multiple MLB pitchers for a prospect like Mike Trout I don't see the CF situation changing all that much. There will be some sort of platoon with Gomez(barring injury), Carlos just isn't good enough to be an everyday player and doesn't carry enough value to be moveable for anything of value.

[Polish Falcons]

Morgan vs righties

 

Gomez vs lefties

[kramnoj]

On the bases he's still a liability, for every extra base he takes via steals, 1st-3rd, or scoring a run when other players on the roster wouldn't have gotten the extra base he gives back by making very poor decisions that lead to outs on the bases.

 

The stats at b-ref disagree with this. Granted, he's not nearly the + runner one would hope for a player with his speed, but the numbers don't really support him being a liability.

[Ennder]

Morgan vs righties

 

Gomez vs lefties

 

Prettyuch agree. Morgan has to sit vs lh. Gomez is not good enough to start every day.

[trwi7]

Kelbysdaddy wrote:

---

he played really well last year before his broken collarbone.

He hit .220/.270/.378/.648 before he broke his collarbone.

 

This thread happens every offseason with Gomez. We get about half the posters saying he's a good defender with a horrible bat that's okay if he's being platooned facing only left handed pitchers and then we get the other half saying they think Gomez will break out next year. It's time to face the facts, he's not going to break out.

[Bombers]

Morgan vs righties

 

Gomez vs lefties

 

Prettyuch agree. Morgan has to sit vs lh. Gomez is not good enough to start every day.

 

Ditto. I like Morgans approach at the plate and wish his style would rub off on Gomez more.

[MessiahRp]

This thread happens every offseason with Gomez. We get about half the posters saying he's a good defender with a horrible bat that's okay if he's being platooned facing only left handed pitchers and then we get the other half saying they think Gomez will break out next year. It's time to face the facts, he's not going to break out.

Yep. And a lot of people seem to think next year is his year. I would see if that thought process is pervasive around the league and deal Gomez for a prospect. To me Morgan is the better player. He's proven he can hit in the bigs, even if it's more prevalent against Righties. Gomez doesn't even do that. Schaefer likely could fill in his spot and there's Aoki whom could be quite helpful on this roster. Gomez is the odd man out IMO, so might as well use whatever higher opinions of him still exist and extract something of value for him.

[brettac1]

Put me down in the straight platoon camp.

[logan82]

None of those guys you mentioned hit right handed. Morgan is even worse than Gomez against LHP. I wouldn't expect either of the other 2 to hit same handed pitching well enough to replace Gomez when you take defense into account. Any of those 3 guys are possible fill ins for Morgan though.

[NYChez]

I'd play Morgan until he shows he can't do the job.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Stick with the platoon. Gomez sucks vs all pitching, but is actually slightly better than Morgan vs LHP so he can start in those games. Gomez is clearly the better defender, but if he can't hit at all Morgan will just continue to play vs RHP as he should. Even if he drops off, he'll still be better than Gomez at the plate.

[rousieboy]

I like the platoon thing too but I don't like having the arbitration $$$ racking up year in/year out for what really is two halves of a player that would be limited if either half went down.

 

Another question is with LSchafer and Aoki...shouldn't we sell high on Nyjer...especially when the Tony Plush stuff wears thin on a .500 team that misses Braun and Fielder for the start of 2012?

[igor67]

I'm skeptical that Morgan would bring that much of value. He's still plenty cheap, and I'm just fine having a prospect in AAA who could probably do the job burn an option as depth for a year. It's not hard to imagine someone else getting hurt while Braun is on suspension...

[Flood Pants]

I think we should stick with the straight platoon but creatively use defensive subs. For example, in late innings, shift Nyjer over to RF and bring in Gomez to play CF. I think it may be smart to use Taylor Green and Cesar Izturis similarly in the infield. We have good defense on the bench so we can use it to make up for the sketchy D in the starting lineup.

[JohnBriggs12]

Anything you can do with Morgan offensively and defensively, you can also do with Logan Schafer.

 

Schafer's had setbacks due to injury, but at 25, I think he's got the ability and the maturity to play in the big leagues. Morgan's value will never be higher and while he was a great fit on last year's team, I'm not sure this team with no Prince around to rule the clubhouse is quite as good a fit.

 

Gomez' splits are almost identical vs. lefties and righties. One poster suggested he pattern his game after Morgan? I couldn't disagree more, Carlos Gomez is 6'4", 215 lbs. He should pattern himself more after Mike Cameron. Cameron at 25 hit .210/.285/.336 in 396 AB's with the White Sox. Cameron was looked at back then much as Gomez is now. Great tools, speed and defense but will he ever hit enough? Gomez has the ability to hit 20-25 HR. I think he should actually try bunting a little less and instead hone his full swing. He'll never hit for a high average (Cameron is a lifetime .249 hitter), but he could be a fine CF for years to come with plenty of pop in his bat.

[Baldkin]

Anything you can do with Morgan offensively and defensively, you can also do with Logan Schafer.

 

Schafer's had setbacks due to injury, but at 25, I think he's got the ability and the maturity to play in the big leagues. Morgan's value will never be higher and while he was a great fit on last year's team, I'm not sure this team with no Prince around to rule the clubhouse is quite as good a fit.

 

Gomez' splits are almost identical vs. lefties and righties. One poster suggested he pattern his game after Morgan? I couldn't disagree more, Carlos Gomez is 6'4", 215 lbs. He should pattern himself more after Mike Cameron. Cameron at 25 hit .210/.285/.336 in 396 AB's with the White Sox. Cameron was looked at back then much as Gomez is now. Great tools, speed and defense but will he ever hit enough? Gomez has the ability to hit 20-25 HR. I think he should actually try bunting a little less and instead hone his full swing. He'll never hit for a high average (Cameron is a lifetime .249 hitter), but he could be a fine CF for years to come with plenty of pop in his bat.

Cameron always walked, though. Gomez doesn't do that at all. (Career 11% compared to 5.2%). Cameron also had a MUCH better season in his age-24 year, a year Gomez has never come close to (.259/.356/.433). Unless Gomez learns how to take a walk, and recognize pitches he'll never become a truly good hitter.

[monty57]

If Aoki's signed and Braun is suspended, I'd start out with Aoki in LF, Gomez/Morgan straight platoon in CF, Hart in RF. Barring other injuries, when Braun returns I'd look to trade Morgan for a prospect and move Aoki into CF (either in platoon or full-time).

 

If Aoki's signed and Braun is not suspended, I'd trade Morgan now, as we'd probably get more for him now than we would mid-season. Then I'd go Braun/Aoki/Hart with Gomez as defensive replacement.

 

If Aoki is not signed, and Braun is suspended, I'd start with Gindl in LF, Gomez/Morgan in CF and Hart in RF.

 

If Aoki is not signed and Braun is not suspended, we'll almost certainly see the OF we ended with last season: Braun in LF, Morgan/Gomez in straight platoon in CF, Hart in RF.

[JohnBriggs12]

Anything you can do with Morgan offensively and defensively, you can also do with Logan Schafer.

 

Schafer's had setbacks due to injury, but at 25, I think he's got the ability and the maturity to play in the big leagues. Morgan's value will never be higher and while he was a great fit on last year's team, I'm not sure this team with no Prince around to rule the clubhouse is quite as good a fit.

 

Gomez' splits are almost identical vs. lefties and righties. One poster suggested he pattern his game after Morgan? I couldn't disagree more, Carlos Gomez is 6'4", 215 lbs. He should pattern himself more after Mike Cameron. Cameron at 25 hit .210/.285/.336 in 396 AB's with the White Sox. Cameron was looked at back then much as Gomez is now. Great tools, speed and defense but will he ever hit enough? Gomez has the ability to hit 20-25 HR. I think he should actually try bunting a little less and instead hone his full swing. He'll never hit for a high average (Cameron is a lifetime .249 hitter), but he could be a fine CF for years to come with plenty of pop in his bat.

Cameron always walked, though. Gomez doesn't do that at all. (Career 11% compared to 5.2%). Cameron also had a MUCH better season in his age-24 year, a year Gomez has never come close to (.259/.356/.433). Unless Gomez learns how to take a walk, and recognize pitches he'll never become a truly good hitter.

In 08, Gomez hit .258/.296/.360 as a skinny 22 year old. That's not all that far off Cameron's year at age 24.

 

Once he stops giving a pitcher an automatic 0-1 count with his failed bunt attempts, his walk total will increase. Guys that have trouble making contact (like Cameron) tend to get deep in counts naturally.

[The Truth]

Based on career stats, a straight platoon works when looking exclusively at offensive numbers. Morgan is a fairly significant drop-off from Gomez defensively.

 

I drink the Gomez kool-aid, i.e. every year I think he's going to "finally get it together" and have a .320 OBP. So, having said that, and based on defense, I'd like to see Gomez start at least 100-120 games and only sit him vs the toughest rhp's. I do think his defense is huge and a game-changer

 

In terms of Morgan, Aoki is a bit of a wild-card.

 

I am biased because I don't like Morgan's antics at all and I think those antics would get real old real quick on a .500 team... and I believe in strong defense

[RockCoCougars]

I'm skeptical that Morgan would bring that much of value. He's still plenty cheap, and I'm just fine having a prospect in AAA who could probably do the job burn an option as depth for a year. It's not hard to imagine someone else getting hurt while Braun is on suspension...

Exactly. The talk of trading either of these guys makes little sense to me. It's not like they are going to bring a blue chip prospect, any 'prospect' that you get will have plenty of warts. Sounds like a Dean Taylor move to me. If Morgan becomes a problem, you just DFA him. I don't think that this team should trade anyone for prospects until they show that they won't be competitive again in 2012. That's what rebuilding teams do.

[monty57]

I'm skeptical that Morgan would bring that much of value. He's still plenty cheap, and I'm just fine having a prospect in AAA who could probably do the job burn an option as depth for a year. It's not hard to imagine someone else getting hurt while Braun is on suspension...

Exactly. The talk of trading either of these guys makes little sense to me. It's not like they are going to bring a blue chip prospect, any 'prospect' that you get will have plenty of warts. Sounds like a Dean Taylor move to me. If Morgan becomes a problem, you just DFA him. I don't think that this team should trade anyone for prospects until they show that they won't be competitive again in 2012. That's what rebuilding teams do.

If Morgan is "plenty cheap," and is a sound MLB player who we could pencil in for 120+ starts, batting #1 or 2 for a team with World Series hopes, then why would he have no trade value?

 

I'm only a proponent of trading him under certain circumstances. The first variable is whether or not we sign Aoki. He is a superstar in Japan, and while that doesn't mean he'll be a star here, he seems better than many here want to give him credit for. The second variable is what happens with the Braun suspension. If Braun is suspended, then trading Morgan before Braun returns wouldn't seem smart. The final variable is what we'd get in return. I don't want to give him away, but if we'd get a decent return and the other variables are met, then we should look at trading him.

 

If we get Aoki, I think he should start in LF while Braun is suspended, with Morgan / Gomez in CF. When Braun returns, if everyone is healthy and Aoki has played well, then we should look at trading Morgan.

 

or

 

If we get Aoki and Braun is not suspended, then we should look at trading Morgan this offseason, as Aoki would probably be the starter in CF, with Braun in LF, Hart in RF and Gomez a better option as a defensive replacement. I'd prefer a better bat as the 5th OF/first pinch hitter off the bench.

 

In either of these cases, if no one would offer anything in trade, then I'm fine with Morgan & Gomez as the 4/5 OFs. If we could get a decent return in trade, I'd take Gindl or Melvin's standard $800k vet corner OF as the 5th OF / pinch hitter.

[RockCoCougars]

Morgan was only worth Cutter Dykstra nine months ago. I seriously doubt that he would bring that much more now. I'm not sure why you would mess with a platoon that seemed to work pretty well last year just to add a B-level prospect.