Royals sign Yuni Betancourt to be utility IF; $2 million plus incentives

[endaround]

So, at this point, is it safe to say that Yuni has eclipsed Neifi Perez and Juan Pierre as the most disparaged player of all time among the SABR contingent?

 

I've seen a lot of players come through the Brewers over the years and in my view, Betancourt isn't anywhere near the worst player (even regular player for that matter) that the team has had. I'm not sure that I would have given him two million though. I'm not going to argue that he's a good player, but he's not nearly as bad as some would have you believe- nor is David DeJesus as good. The truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

This isn't a SABR thing. Scouts and stats have agreed for years that Betancourt is terrible. And yes he is among a handful of the worst players the Brewers have ever started for an entire season.

[rluzinski]

So, at this point, is it safe to say that Yuni has eclipsed Neifi Perez and Juan Pierre as the most disparaged player of all time among the SABR contingent?

 

I've seen a lot of players come through the Brewers over the years and in my view, Betancourt isn't anywhere near the worst player (even regular player for that matter) that the team has had. I'm not sure that I would have given him two million though. I'm not going to argue that he's a good player, but he's not nearly as bad as some would have you believe- nor is David DeJesus as good. The truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

This isn't a SABR thing. Scouts and stats have agreed for years that Betancourt is terrible. And yes he is among a handful of the worst players the Brewers have ever started for an entire season.

And that fact has been pointed out about a BILLION times over the last 12 months. Some people just ignore what they want to ignore.

BTW, Perez's defensive value was pretty high.

 

[logan82]

I've seen a lot of players come through the Brewers over the years and in my view, Betancourt isn't anywhere near the worst player (even regular player for that matter) that the team has had. I'm not sure that I would have given him two million though. I'm not going to argue that he's a good player, but he's not nearly as bad as some would have you believe- nor is David DeJesus as good. The truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

 

This isn't 2004 where we just needed a guy to fill in and get through another losing season. This was 2011 where we were trying to compete for a playoff spot. In 2004 he would have been a minor annoyance.

[RockCoCougars]

It's just ridiculous that a mostly innocuous signing of a backup can create such a large response on the hot stove websites. The Royals probably overpaid by a million, but is that enough to cause all the armchair G.M.'s to bash the guy and the team? Maybe they liked his attitude there, and this was a vet clubhouse signing. Or, maybe they are figuring out that Escobar is a mirage, and they want some depth at shortstop. Would people flip out in this way if someone gave Counsell $2 million? Like I said, Betancourt is not a good player, but people are acting like he was Johnny Estrada here or something. Heck, Betancourt wasn't even the worst Brewers starting SS over the past two seasons.

[monty57]

You really have to be at the game to truly appreciate why so many people dislike Yuni. It's hard to see a MLB player on "your team" watching routine ground balls roll by without even taking a step in that direction. McGehee (not a good defender) was at least running and diving for grounders. Yuni just wathced them. Then he'd walk up to the plate and hack at a "pitcher's pitch," which even good hitters couldn't drive, and as expected would pop it up to the first baseman. Of course the "SABR guys" are going to see that he has no range... he doesn't even try for the ball. Any scout could tell you the same thing. I also haven't heard many scouts say that swinging at anything the pitcher throws is a good strategy. It doesn't take a calculator to see that Yuni is pretty bad.

 

As long as balls are hit right at him or pitchers make mistakes and throw him a meatball on the first pitch, then Yuni looks okay. He can drive fastballs over the middle of the plate, and he doesn't make many mistakes on balls hit right at him (or on throws from the second baseman while turning two). It seems that if he'd hustle a little more and listen to his hitting coach and show a little patience at the plate, he could be a decent player. That, as much as the poor stats, is what makes him hard for me to watch or cheer for. His physical skills got him a big contract. His lack of hustle and refusal to listen to everyone who has told him to change his approach at the plate is what has gotten him labeled the worst player in the league.

[StearnsFTW]

It's just ridiculous that a mostly innocuous signing of a backup can create such a large response on the hot stove websites. The Royals probably overpaid by a million, but is that enough to cause all the armchair G.M.'s to bash the guy and the team? Maybe they liked his attitude there, and this was a vet clubhouse signing. Or, maybe they are figuring out that Escobar is a mirage, and they want some depth at shortstop. Would people flip out in this way if someone gave Counsell $2 million? Like I said, Betancourt is not a good player, but people are acting like he was Johnny Estrada here or something. Heck, Betancourt wasn't even the worst Brewers starting SS over the past two seasons.

I agree that the Royals may have signed him as a veteran presence and that he may have a little bit of value in that regard, but again, I personally would flip out if we signed Counsell for $2MM because that would be paying $2MM for someone who isn't any good. Same reason people are flipping out about Betancourt. He's not any good.

[monty57]

Melvin will probably sign him next year.

 

No, he'll wait until he's around 40 and then bring him back.

Such positive, insightful posts. Thanks.

BREWCREW5, your last post prior to this one was:

 

"Dude poops excellence. I don't care what anyone says."

 

Were you being positive or insightful in that post?

 

 

 

[RockCoCougars]

I was at several games last year and saw maybe a few balls that Betancourt didn't get to that someone else would have. I never saw him stand and watch a grounder. I'll be the first to bag on a lazy player, but Yuni never came off as lazy to me. Heck, the last game I was at- Game 6- he made a couple of nice 'rangy' plays.... (yes, he also made a horrible error, but still). At least he didn't completely disappear against the Cardinals like most of the rest of the team did. His playoff performance definitely scored some points with me.

[CheezWizHed]

League minimum is about right, and I wouldn't want him on my team for the league minimum.

 

I tended to side with the "anti-YB" group when he was our starting SS, but honestly, I'd have no problem with YB as a backup SS at league minimum, as long as I knew that his coming back and being "demoted" wouldn't be a club-house problem.

 

I don't see anyone that is an option for backup SS out there that is going to be any better.

[StearnsFTW]

League minimum is about right, and I wouldn't want him on my team for the league minimum.

 

I tended to side with the "anti-YB" group when he was our starting SS, but honestly, I'd have no problem with YB as a backup SS at league minimum, as long as I knew that his coming back and being "demoted" wouldn't be a club-house problem.

 

I don't see anyone that is an option for backup SS out there that is going to be any better.

He adds nothing to a bench though. Can't get on base, can't field, can't play multiple postitions, can't run.

 

I'd find somebody who could do at least one of those things.

[endaround]

Don't forget he can't take coaching either. Part of the reason Royals fans hate this is they saw Yuni put on 20 lbs and eat his way to having no range. And they've read about him refusing to listen to his coaches (we got part of that in Milwaukee).

[bucksman4]

Don't forget he can't take coaching either. Part of the reason Royals fans hate this is they saw Yuni put on 20 lbs and eat his way to having no range. And they've read about him refusing to listen to his coaches (we got part of that in Milwaukee).

The guy looked like a goofball, carefree, no-intensity player in the dugout and played with a lack of passion, effort, and desire to be a better ballplayer.

I could envision Sveum standing there looking at Yuni and saying to be more patient at the plate and take a pitch in a key situation where a pitcher has his back against the wall. And I envision Yuni staring with a blank look on his face thinking about where he's going to eat that night and nod like he really heard and will implement what the hitting coach just told him. It's an uncoachable and arrogant approach for a player who some consider to be the one of the worst in all of MLB.

 

[bucksman4]

Or just as comically, last year they paid him $2M not to play for them, and this year they are paying him $2M to sit on the bench.

 

Neyer's pretty excited:

 

Now, Betancourt's not slated for every-day duties. The Royals are set with young players at every infield position. But those young players do need guidance. They need guidance on not making plays at shortstop, not making plays at second and third base, not drawing walks or getting into good hitter's counts, and not always giving 110 percent. The Royals' young players will be the most well-tutored young players in the American League at those things.

 

So, kudos to general manager Dayton Moore on that account.

 

 

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2...s-yuni-betancourt-signed

Classic. Neyer was actually the first person I thought about when I heard he re-upped with KC. I recall Neyer talking on ESPNMilwaukee about a year ago when we traded for him in the Greinke trade. Neyer went on to say something along the lines of: the Brewers will be better when they realize Yuni is a bad baseball player and cut bait with him.

This is great that he went back to the team Neyer roots for. I love it.

[RockCoCougars]

I'm just not certain how you can coach a guy not to swing at a first pitch without utilizing a 'take' sign as I do with 12 year-olds. From my experience, pitchers are taught to pound the zone until they get ahead in the count, if follows that quite often the first pitch is the best pitch that you will see during a given at bat- if you fall behind 0-1, the pendulum swings way over to the pitcher, so I have no problem with a guy being aggressive up there. Paul Molitor made a career out of drilling first pitches. Frankly, I'd rather watch a guy pop up a first pitch than swinging at an eye high pitch on a 1-2 count or going down looking on a perfect backdoor slider 0-2. Exceptions to this may be when you need baserunners late in a game or are facing a stud pitcher where you want to work the pitch count.

[brettac1]

Don't you need baserunners the whole game in order to score runs?

[topper09er]

I'm just not certain how you can coach a guy not to swing at a first pitch without utilizing a 'take' sign as I do with 12 year-olds. From my experience, pitchers are taught to pound the zone until they get ahead in the count,

 

There is a difference between 12 year olds and the majors. Is there a league wide scouting report that the other teams have that says your players always swing at the first pitch? Do the other 12 years olds have good sliders they can get to break low and away for an easy strike one?

 

Its not coaching him to just auto-take, it is trying to get him to use his pea sized brain up there. He should have some idea the other teams know he is a free swinger which means pitchers will not "pound the zone" against him because they dont have to. And when he does swing, he should not be falling over and taking the ugliest uppercut swing of all time and finish with 1 hand on the bat, off balance and looking in the 3rd base dugout.

[CheezWizHed]

He adds nothing to a bench though.

 

He adds a backup SS. As a starting SS, YB was terrible. Compared to SS backups in the league, he isn't that bad. Remember that we had CC and Josh Wilson last year...

 

Name an available SS that will take the MLB minimum that is better than YB. I'm not sure YB would have taken MLB minimum, but that was the premise you put out there...

 

Yes, I would like to have a better SS for our backup than YB. But given what is left, YB at league minimum isn't bad. YB at $2M is a "no thank you".

[StearnsFTW]

He adds nothing to a bench though.

 

He adds a backup SS. As a starting SS, YB was terrible. Compared to SS backups in the league, he isn't that bad. Remember that we had CC and Josh Wilson last year...

 

Name an available SS that will take the MLB minimum that is better than YB. I'm not sure YB would have taken MLB minimum, but that was the premise you put out there...

 

Yes, I would like to have a better SS for our backup than YB. But given what is left, YB at league minimum isn't bad. YB at $2M is a "no thank you".

Well,the Brewers just signed one.

 

Izturis is a much better bench player than Yuni. Neither can hit, but Izturis is capable of playing excellent defense at 3 positions. They're out there.

[monty57]

I'm just not certain how you can coach a guy not to swing at a first pitch without utilizing a 'take' sign as I do with 12 year-olds. From my experience, pitchers are taught to pound the zone until they get ahead in the count, if follows that quite often the first pitch is the best pitch that you will see during a given at bat- if you fall behind 0-1, the pendulum swings way over to the pitcher, so I have no problem with a guy being aggressive up there. Paul Molitor made a career out of drilling first pitches. Frankly, I'd rather watch a guy pop up a first pitch than swinging at an eye high pitch on a 1-2 count or going down looking on a perfect backdoor slider 0-2. Exceptions to this may be when you need baserunners late in a game or are facing a stud pitcher where you want to work the pitch count.

 

Most MLB players have better strike zone recognition then your average 12-year-old. Yuni is either one of the exceptions, and cannot determine if a pitch is going to be a strike nearly as well as most MLB players, or he has the "you don't walk off the island" mentality and refuses to change his approach.

 

I have no problem with players swinging at the first pitch when it's a strike. The problem is that Yuni swings and makes contact with a lot of pitches out of the strike zone, which are very hard pitches to drive, leading to weakly hit grounders or pop-outs to the right side of the infield, and only forcing the pitcher to throw one or two pitches.

[reillymcshane]

Yuni is certainly not the worst guy ever. We paint his performance with broad strokes - most of which is ugly. But the guy has some decent pop for his position. His ability to go out there every day is noteworthy. And he's been a pretty tough guy to strike out. All nice things, but his hacking is so bad, it just murders his on base potential. Combine that with bad defense, and he's pretty bad. But not the worst available.

 

I guess the thing with Yuni is there was a lot of potential that seems to have been wasted. His first few years he actually fielded better. But he peaked at about 25 - both as a hitter and fielder. He put on weight. He looks lazy. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think he pushed himself to the next level. He road his talent to being a solid player - but never worked to get better at that point. He got soft, which made him lose a little speed and quickness. His OBP has declined, ever so slightly, since his first year as a starter. He hasn't adjusted. He had the chance and ability, which is what makes him so frustrating.

 

I look at Carlos Gomez and get frustrated by his inability to grow as a hitter. He's got so much athletic ability, it frustrates you. But no one is accusing Gomez of not trying. He works hard on defense. He seems to try to get better as a hitter - each you they talk about how much he's working with the coaches, etc. You never heard that about Yuni.

 

Oh well, Yuni is gone. He had some good moments last year. Some bad ones too - but every player has those. I'm just happy he's not our player any more. I'll take a glove guy like Izturis any day of the week.

[reillymcshane]

Yuni gets savaged by the Fangraphs folks. Not unexpected. But pretty funny to read:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/...e-meaning-of-betancourt/

[RockCoCougars]

Yuni gets savaged by the Fangraphs folks. Not unexpected. But pretty funny to read:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/...e-meaning-of-betancourt/

Loved this response...."There’s this ridiculous site that says he was worth $6M over the last two years!"

 

At any rate, I still say that Yuni was a clear upgrade over Escobar. Hopefully, Gonzalez will be an upgrade over Yuni.

[monty57]

I still say that Yuni was a clear upgrade over Escobar.

 

Imagine the thread that'll pop up if Ned eventually names Yuni the starting SS in KC.

[MJLiverock]

Yuni gets savaged by the Fangraphs folks. Not unexpected. But pretty funny to read:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/...e-meaning-of-betancourt/

They aren't any kinder to our latest signing either.

http://www.fangraphs.com/...le-continued-employment/

[logan82]

I still say that Yuni was a clear upgrade over Escobar.

 

.235/.288/.326/.614(.270 wOBA) average fielding

.252/.271/.381/.652(.278 wOBA) bad fielding

 

Not really much of an upgrade and actually a downgrade taking defense into account.