Brewers win negotiating rights to Japanese OF Norichika Aoki for $2.5 million. Latest: signs 2-yr deal

[RockCoCougars]

This doesn't seem like a good match for either side. Frankly, I'm not sold on anyone based on stats in another league. It doesn't appear that MLB execs are either. I'm sure the Brewers don't want to throw $6-8 million minimum at some guy based on his Japanese statline and a brief workout. As for Aoki, it seems doubtful that he will make more money over here than he makes over there, so unless he really wants to play in MLB, it doesn't make sense for him either. I don't feel bad for him though. If he was that good, the Brewers would have never even been in the conversation.

[monty57]

As for Aoki, it seems doubtful that he will make more money over here than he makes over there, so unless he really wants to play in MLB, it doesn't make sense for him either.

 

I don't know if it's the case with Aoki, but for a lot of players it's about playing against the best competition and proving they can succeed at the top level.

[gregmag]

I don't get the same sense as other folks from Melvin's comments. I don't get any sense at all. Melvin is notoriously cagey in his comments to the media about personnel matters. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they didn't make him a serious offer, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they went after him reasonably hard.

[RockCoCougars]

As for Aoki, it seems doubtful that he will make more money over here than he makes over there, so unless he really wants to play in MLB, it doesn't make sense for him either.

 

I don't know if it's the case with Aoki, but for a lot of players it's about playing against the best competition and proving they can succeed at the top level.

If that's the case, and I'm the Brewers, I'd strongly consider paying the posting fee and offering him a non-guaranteed contract with a NRI. It'd be a huge risk for Aoki though and a minor risk for the Brewers. I'm not sure that I would commit more than the posting fee without getting the chance to watch him over spring training though.

 

If the Brewers pay the posting fee and then release him, can he go back to Japan as a free agent?

[Mike]

Frankly, I don't think the Crew signs him for the following reasons:

 

1) Why do we need yet another LH on the bench, especially with Schafer and Gindl as cheaper options? He does not have enough power to replace Braun for 50 games.

2) $2.5M posting fee plus an assumed $2-2.5M per salary for two years. Aoki would not take less. Brewers can't afford now.

3) Does anyone really think they could tell how a guy does in BP? Perhaps the arm, speed and fielding can be gauged in a workout, but not hitting BP. There is no way I take that financial risk.

4) The posting fee DM made was kind of like us playing poker. Don't every once in a while when you have a straight facing the possibility of the other guy perhaps having a flush throw your money at it? Presumably he made that bid in a similar fashion, thinking we wouldn't get it, but what the heck.

5) I also don't think "feelings" or potential using Aoki even entered into the equation. We all know how cut throat this business is.

6) The Brewers will either say, thanks but no thanks or low ball him and Aoki says politely go pound sand Milwaukee.

[RockCoCougars]

Aoki says politely go pound sand Milwaukee

 

How will the translator handle that?

[monty57]

I also don't think "feelings" or potential using Aoki even entered into the equation. We all know how cut throat this business is.

 

Just because others may do it doesn't make it less of a bad move, especially coming from a GM who has went out of his way on occasions to be "player friendly" (i.e. asking Edmonds if it was okay to trade him). Why screw a person over just to do it? I could very well be reading too much into Melvin's quotes, but it sounds like he's not too interested in even pursuing discussions with Aoki, and it doesn't sound like the trip to AZ made any difference.

 

This just seems very out of character for Melvin.

[MadScientist]

I'm guessing the timeline was something like this.

Melvin learns of Braun's positive test.

Melvin places a bid.

Ramirez signs pinning the payroll.

Aoki has a workout that is good but not eye-popping.

Melvin and Co. not certain Aoki is worth all that much to the Brewers, especially in their current budget.

 

While not ideal, I think Melvin can decline to sign this guy without seeming like a total chain yanker.

[TooLiveBrew]

There could have been an understanding from the start that the Brewers wanted to see Aoki against live competition in ST, & then decide whether or not to tender an offer. That way, Aoki wouldn't have to totally relocate to the US unless there's a contract agreement. I'm guessing no feathers have been ruffled here with how this has played out so far.

 

For a comparison, the player the Yanks won via posting fee this offseason declined to sign with them since he didn't want to be a bench player. Initially, the Yanks got called the evil empire for 'blocking' him from signing with another team, and they hadn't intended to sign him all along. But if the Brewers do basically the same thing they Yankees did, it's on the up & up? I think this is just how these types of deals play out.

[dadofandrew]

Schafer and Gindl need to play every day, not sit on the bench getting 100 AB's. That may well be where Aoki fits in.

[DHonks]

I agree with Al. I still contend that Green fits in with that. Since they won't play and they have their futures ahead of them, I prefer them all in AAA.

[brettac1]

I agree with both of you guys that they should all go to AAA if not playing every day.

[DHonks]

If Aoki's skillset is as advertised, then he's not a bad 4th OF (speed, contact, bunt, defense, etc). Heck, he can't be worse than Shinjo was in the majors

[monty57]

Schafer and Gindl need to play every day, not sit on the bench getting 100 AB's. That may well be where Aoki fits in.

 

If Braun is suspended and we do not sign Aoki, then Schafer or Gindl would be our LF for the first 50 games, possibly platooned with a veteran $800k RH bat. Once Braun returns, then I agree that Schafer / Gindl should be sent back to AAA to play everyday, and the veteran $800k RH bat would remain as our 5th OF / RH bat off the bench.

[dadofandrew]

I looked at the backup OF market last night in case Aoki does not sign, and it's pretty weak, the top guys have definite warts, Juan Pierre, Johnny Gomez, and Rick Ankiel are the top three in my mind. I'd love Gomez if he could play 1B, but he never has, and as mediocre as he is in LF, I have to think it's come up before.

[thebruce44]

This just isn't the type of thing to do to a person. If you didn't think you were going to "pursue signing Aoki," then don't post a bid. Aoki made the tough decision to uproot his whole life and play in America, and now there's a good chance he'll have to wait a year just because Melvin decided on a whim to post an offer he probably wasn't going to act on. To throw a little salt on the wound, they made him fly all the way to Arizona for a tryout, which apparently won't factor much into the ultimate decision. There's nothing Aoki can do about it, because that's the way the system's set up, but not a good way to treat a person.

You're acting like flying from Japan to AZ for free to interview for a job is the worst thing in the world. People do this sort of thing all the time, not to mention a professional baseball player who has played internationally several times in the past. And him uprooting his whole life? What about all the American's who move overseas for work at much less pay than a baseball player.

I'm sure he will be fine and I doubt there is any bad blood. If anything, Aoki is probably upset such a low bid won. If there isn't much interest for him, and he is upset about that, he can have a better year in Japan this season.

[Bnowell4evr]

I looked at the backup OF market last night in case Aoki does not sign, and it's pretty weak, the top guys have definite warts, Juan Pierre, Johnny Gomez, and Rick Ankiel are the top three in my mind. I'd love Gomez if he could play 1B, but he never has, and as mediocre as he is in LF, I have to think it's come up before.

You could get around that problem if Hart was willing to play 1B whenever Gomes started.

[monty57]

You're acting like flying from Japan to AZ for free to interview for a job is the worst thing in the world. People do this sort of thing all the time, not to mention a professional baseball player who has played internationally several times in the past.

 

If there was any intention of signing him, I'd agree. If the Brewers had no intention of even pursuing negotiations, regardless of the outcome of the tryout, then they should have just not submitted a bid or at the very least should have just told him not to bother wasting his time coming over. It is a very long flight, even moreso if it's pointless.

 

And him uprooting his whole life? What about all the American's who move overseas for work at much less pay than a baseball player.

 

But they move for a job they have. They don't have an employer say "fly to Japan" and then once you get there they say "we're not going to pursue employing you, go back to America and see if you can get your old job back." Aoki has no other option for employment in the U.S. other than the team which posted the accepted bid, which in this case is the Brewers. I may be wrong, and Melvin may have every intention in the world of signing him, but if they aren't even going to negotiate with him, it doesn't seem like they had much interest in him from the get-go.

 

I'm guessing the timeline was something like this.

Melvin learns of Braun's positive test.

Melvin places a bid.

Ramirez signs pinning the payroll.

Aoki has a workout that is good but not eye-popping.

Melvin and Co. not certain Aoki is worth all that much to the Brewers, especially in their current budget.

 

While not ideal, I think Melvin can decline to sign this guy without seeming like a total chain yanker.

 

That may well be the case. I don't know when the bids needed to be posted relative to the Ramirez signing. Maybe Aoki was just a "Plan B" in case everything else fell through. Either way, I'd be somewhat upset if I were him, and the one chance he had to play in the U.S. in 2012 (because of Japan's goofy system) ended in the team which posted the accepted bid not even being willing to step to the negotiating table.

 

I'm sure he will be fine and I doubt there is any bad blood.

 

If the Brewers don't sign him, he'll make a couple of million playing in Japan, and will then become a free agent and sign with whomever he desires next year. Melvin will continue to GM the Brewers, and most people won't think twice about this if Aoki isn't signed. However this works out, everyone will be A-OK.

 

I'm just looking at things as a matter of principle. Treat people the way you'd want to be treated, and don't jerk them around for your own benefit. That should apply in professional baseball just as much as it should apply anywhere else in life. Just because it happens doesn't make it right. Melvin has a history of seemingly bending over backwards to make sure players don't feel jilted, so I could very well be misinterpreting everything. I'm sure he's not a bad person. This is all just my opinion, and doesn't really have that much to do with baseball, so I'll stop griping :-)

[dadofandrew]

Teams rarely have their everyday players play other positions some days. Even guys who used to play that spot never seem to go back, Brandon Phillips used to play SS, but since going to 2B never plays there. Hunter Pence used to play CF, but hasn't since becoming a regular RF. It also is hardly good for defense to have Hart bouncing between 1B and RF, it would probably be a negative for him in both spots.

 

It might be a mental thing, but no one does it. tossing it out as an option, when it isn't going to happen, doesn't accomplish anything.

[thebruce44]

And him uprooting his whole life? What about all the American's who move overseas for work at much less pay than a baseball player.

 

But they move for a job they have. They don't have an employer say "fly to Japan" and then once you get there they say "we're not going to pursue employing you, go back to America and see if you can get your old job back."

He didn't lose his existing job in Japan so I don't see how your analogy makes any sense. My office just had an engineer fly to Kuwait for a week to study and bid on a job. We didn't get it, and our company paid for everything out of pocket. If we had gotten the job, it would have been huge. That's business. No hard feelings and we will pursue work like that again if it comes up.

I really think you are looking at this on a way to personal and emotional level. Even if the Brewers had little intention of negotiating with him unless they were blown away this isn't something that doesn't happen thousands of times a day in private industry to people who stand to make much less.

What about all the companies that go to college career fairs with no intention of hiring anyone? What about all the companies that have openings posted on their website to see if that one resume comes in that blows them away. What about interviewing people as a favor to someone when you have no intention of hiring them? These things happen all the time and create false hope for people who actually need money in a terrible economy.

I can't see how anyone could lose sleep over Aoki getting a tryout from a GM who needed to be blown away to make an offer.

[pogokat]

Is this guy going to be better than Fukudome? A serious question, because if it costs the team 2.5 then another 2.5 a year, it seems to me that Kosuke would be cheaper...and a much more proven option

[Bnowell4evr]

Teams rarely have their everyday players play other positions some days. Even guys who used to play that spot never seem to go back, Brandon Phillips used to play SS, but since going to 2B never plays there. Hunter Pence used to play CF, but hasn't since becoming a regular RF. It also is hardly good for defense to have Hart bouncing between 1B and RF, it would probably be a negative for him in both spots.

 

It might be a mental thing, but no one does it. tossing it out as an option, when it isn't going to happen, doesn't accomplish anything.

I agree starters aren't moved around very often but its not totally uncommon. Just look at how the Rays used Ben Zobrist over the last couple of years and it makes Corey playing 1B once or twice a week seem like nothing. You might have a point about his defense suffering bouncing around but the mental aspect is way overrated because of Bill Hall.

To me playing 1B is the NL equivalent of the DH.

[monty57]

To me playing 1B is the NL equivalent of the DH.

 

Playing 1B is basically playing 3B without having to make long, accurate throws, but adding the need to be able to scoop the ball/accept throws and hold runners. It's probably the easiest position to play, but there is skill required, especially to play at the major league level. It's pretty frustrating for the rest of the infield if they're making plays and the 1B continually fails to scoop throws.

 

I think some players are better suited to jump from position to position without it effecting their play, while others have problems. Craig Counsell could probably play every position on the field in the same game, while Robin Yount had a hard time playing left field, so he got moved to center, which is supposed to be more difficult. Yount would probably be seen as the superior defender to Counsell, but Counsell was more "adaptable."

 

To Al's original point about Gomes, I think he's a great option if he fits in thebudget. He destroys LHP, so he could be platooned with Gindl/Schafer in LF while Braun's out and be our RH bench player the rest of the year, allowing Gindl/Schafer to go back to the minors to play everyday. As Al mentioned, if he has the ability to play 1B it would just add to his value to the team, as he could allow Gamel to sit vs tough lefties.

[TheCrew]

I agree starters aren't moved around very often but its not totally uncommon. Just look at how the Rays used Ben Zobrist over the last couple of years and it makes Corey playing 1B once or twice a week seem like nothing. You might have a point about his defense suffering bouncing around but the mental aspect is way overrated because of Bill Hall.

Zobrist plays plus defense just about every where and will do whatever it takes to get playing time. Really has nothing to do with Hall - Hart simply isn't willing to play anywhere else and plays poor defense as it is...... If Hart were willing and committed it'd be a different story.

[Ennder]

Zobrist also started his full time career as that type of player, he kind of forced his way into the lineup without having a set position. But yeah I'd think Hart would be fine playing 1B sometimes and RF sometimes as long as he gets on board with it.